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Lakers New Regional TV Network - NOW ON THE AIR


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#1261 OFFLINE   Satelliteracer

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 12:08 PM

Yes, day to day operations are run independently, but at the of the day the subsidiary is still the subsidiary and acts in the best interest of the parent. Everyone knows negotiating with yourself is a side show. It is not arm's length and the substance will always over-rule for the form chosen.


I respectfully disagree. When you have MFNs and such with these contracts and negotiations, D* will pay for programming from Root the same as any other provider. That way my point earlier. Fox would charge D* every bit the amount they charged Dish, Cox or anyone else even when Newscorp owned D* and Fox. Contracts are contracts.
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#1262 OFFLINE   Satelliteracer

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 12:11 PM

Hope Directv adds some of the HD channels they have such as Fox Movie Channel, TV Land, LMN, HLN, ID, REELZ HD etc. Very impressive.


I'm sure some of those Bright House folks wish they would add the missing 20 or so RSN's in HD that D* has that they don't down there. Etc, etc. ;) No one has it all.
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#1263 OFFLINE   TheRatPatrol

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 12:22 PM

nope, that is why i said "take it for what its worth" and/or "nothing from Sixto in a few days"

Sixto was with out power last week due to hurricane Sandy, not sure if he got it back yet.

#1264 OFFLINE   Hutchinshouse

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 12:36 PM

Sixto was with out power last week due to hurricane Sandy, not sure if he got it back yet.


Plus, SR has yet to dispute ChicagoBlue's statement about getting TWSN within a week. :D

Soon :lol:

#1265 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 12:43 PM

http://www.keyt.com/...-175892431.html Time Warner itself has brought the related party relationship with Root into the question, so your assertion it has run its course is your opinion only as Time Warner, in multiple press releases, has brought this all forward. Here is just one, but it's all over. Time Warner is no fool, they know the relationship with Root is a controlled subsidiary:

"With the Los Angeles Lakers, LA Galaxy and Los Angeles Sparks, two networks and unprecedented behind-the-scenes programming, Time Warner Cable SportsNet and Time Warner Cable Deportes are delivering tremendous value for Southern California sports fans. Any assertion that we are the highest priced regional sports outlet in the country is simply untrue; as a significant buyer of regional sports across the country, we know that there are higher priced regional sports networks, including Root Sports that we buy from DirecTV. Cox and DirecTV know that there is no regional sports network anywhere in the country that is offered on an optional tier -- that would be unprecedented. If Cox or DirecTV choose not to carry our networks, we and their customers will be very disappointed but we are confident there will be other alternatives for their customers to see this highly-anticipated Lakers season."



No one here thinks root is charging $4 a month, not anyone with a brain anyway. Twc was just trying to spin that, as they are trying to say they charge less per channel for their two channels, it since they are almost the same thing and are only sold as a package, its a total crock.

And of course they are going to call that into question. Wouldn't you spin anything you could to get a deal and look like the good guy?

And they failed to mention they tried to get several RSNs onto specialty sports tiers last year and failed...

Please don't resort to using spin statements from either company's publicity department on how stations that are owned by providers are handled and their contracts between them.

#1266 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 12:45 PM

Hope Directv adds some of the HD channels they have such as Fox Movie Channel, TV Land, LMN, HLN, ID, REELZ HD etc. Very impressive.


Well, even if they don't add the linear channels, they are starting to offer Hi Definition programing on demand for channels they only have in sd.

#1267 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 12:57 PM

No one here thinks root is charging $4 a month, not anyone with a brain anyway. Twc was just trying to spin that, as they are trying to say they charge less per channel for their two channels, it since they are almost the same thing and are only sold as a package, its a total crock.

And of course they are going to call that into question. Wouldn't you spin anything you could to get a deal and look like the good guy?

And they failed to mention they tried to get several RSNs onto specialty sports tiers last year and failed...

Please don't resort to using spin statements from either company's publicity department on how stations that are owned by providers are handled and their contracts between them.


Oh please. Fact remains as a 100% owned and controlled subsidiary it follows what is of the best interest of the parent corporation.

This new Laker channel is also a 100% owned and controlled subsidiary of Time Warner. It follows what is good for Time Warner.

Comcast Sportsnet Philadadelpha and Northwest are 100% owned and controlled by Comcast and follow the party line.

You are pretty naive to believe that any of these sports channels operates at arm's length from it's parent company. They may have day to day managers of the people, but the overall goal of the company is to maximizing the parent's profit and other customer reach benchmarks.

Can you honestly believe that Directv is not pulling the strings at Root Sports....seriously?

#1268 OFFLINE   tulanejosh

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 12:58 PM

From twitter, take it for whats its worth, he claims evidence of "testing" but nothing new from Sixto in a few days...

Swanni ?@SwanniOnTV Will #Directv add #Lakers channel today? Some evidence of signal testing and there is a game tonight


Sixto likely without power. He lives in the northeast.

#1269 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 01:02 PM

Sixto likely without power. He lives in the northeast.


DirecTV and SatelliteRacer however HAVE power, and there IS a game on tonight that isn't on national TV. They could confirm or deny it will be carried.

As a matter of fact.... NONE of the games for the rest of this MONTH will be on any other channel besides TWC's SportsNet.

Also: Testing does not mean a deal has been reached. We have seen this with ION.
[Disclaimer] The definition of "soon" is based solely on DirecTV's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "soon" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

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#1270 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 01:06 PM

The world has changed, this isn't 2000 anymore, it's not even 2010 anymore. You cannot run a business where your number one product...content...is growing in expense at double digit rates every year and most of that driven by sports. You can't do it if your paying customer can only withstand a mid, single digit price increase. It's a pathway to bankruptcy.


I have said exactly this. The whole market and playing field for RSNs is changing.

What I did say is that for all the stuff Directv has tried and said it has not placed a single sports channel on an ala carte tier and yet singles out the Pac 12 for this. It just renegoitiated contracts with CBS and is still carrying CBS sports in the same tiers. It carries fuel, speed, sportsman, pursuit, etc. in regular tiers, but it singles out the Pac 12 for the fight and lets these others all go untouched? I say put them all on ala carte or a sports pack as well. I also say have a kids pack, and a pack for all the crap from Viacom. Those that want to pay for six MTV/VH-1 channels with absolutely stupid content can do so.

Sports draws fans. I've also said that somehow, someway Dish has found a way to carry the Pac 12 on it's 120+ tier and, at the same time, charge a substantially lower price for it's packages.....how does it do this? That I am curious about. Maybe Directv's profit is so watered down because it pays up the nose for NFL Sunday Ticket at the expense of everything else?


When future RSNs come up for contract, you're going to see some major wars go on unless they back down (which they won't). Part of what DTV is doing right now is firing several shots across the bow. Now, you may not appreciate that but they clearly are. They are saying squarely to the business, the days of just coming to DTV and exepecting a layup are over. The costs are out of control, we're not buying anymore at those rates. Whether is Pac 12, the Lakers, Houston, or others. With the SEC gearing up for their own channel, rumors of the Big East and others, this is a show across the bow. At the end of the day, these guys need DTV's 20 million subscribers to pay their bills so DTV is willing to take some subscriber losses now to get these guys in line for the long term. Whether it works or not no one will know for a few years.


Never said otherwise, so I am not sure what you are talking about. Costs are out of control and RSNs are fighting for their lives. Their revenue stream is threatened with every single new channel that pops up (i.e. Pac 12, SEC if it comes about, etc.) This is all content that will come from RSNs.

RSNs are also being increasingly controlled by teams as well, taking away additional profit activities.

But Directv (or whomever) has a self interest in preserving the status quo (i.e. keep Pac 12 off it's systems, keep CSN-NW off its systems, etc.) because it's direct competitor is Pac 12 Network, etc.

#1271 OFFLINE   TheRatPatrol

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 01:11 PM

From twitter, take it for whats its worth, he claims evidence of "testing" but nothing new from Sixto in a few days...

Swanni ‏@SwanniOnTV Will #Directv add #Lakers channel today? Some evidence of signal testing and there is a game tonight

Looks like he was responding to this:

@SwanniOnTV - Borrowed this pic from someone who posted in a Laker forum about the DTV/TWC "situation". Strange... http://t.co/1ZPcGgKk (https://twitter.com/...889795447238656)



#1272 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 01:11 PM

Oh please. Fact remains as a 100% owned and controlled subsidiary it follows what is of the best interest of the parent corporation.

This new Laker channel is also a 100% owned and controlled subsidiary of Time Warner. It follows what is good for Time Warner.

Comcast Sportsnet Philadadelpha and Northwest are 100% owned and controlled by Comcast and follow the party line.

You are pretty naive to believe that any of these sports channels operates at arm's length from it's parent company. They may have day to day managers of the people, but the overall goal of the company is to maximizing the parent's profit and other customer reach benchmarks.

Can you honestly believe that Directv is not pulling the strings at Root Sports....seriously?


No, I think you are naive if you think that a parent company would run a small subsidiary at a loss on its books, when it can charge the larger company a fee that would make the small one profitable, allowing the big company to take the hit because it can easily absorb it because it has so many other sources of income, plus that might lend itself to more tax breaks, and allow them to say to other providers, hey, we charge ourselves this much, why would I charge you less. That's logical. I don't know why you think the big company would force the small fry in the company to take a hit when there are so many more reasons to have the big company take a hit.

#1273 OFFLINE   tulanejosh

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 01:11 PM

Point being the guy that tells us stuff is being tested hasnt bewn heard from sixe Sandy. Its possible its being tested. Its possible that its not. The fact that there is a game tonight is largely irrelevant.

Sure they could confirm but that is not consistent with what they tell us. SR tells us that a channel is coming not that it's being tested. CB tells us that he thinks it will be done (and tends to be right). Neither tells us anything about testing because as you point out - testing doesn't mean a deal is done.

#1274 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 01:14 PM

I respectfully disagree. When you have MFNs and such with these contracts and negotiations, D* will pay for programming from Root the same as any other provider. That way my point earlier. Fox would charge D* every bit the amount they charged Dish, Cox or anyone else even when Newscorp owned D* and Fox. Contracts are contracts.


All contracts are not equal. A contract with a third party is a true gauge on the true value. A contract with myself is nothing more than the paper it is written on. Funny how Time Warner is not having a problem getting it's 100% owned sub on it's own systems. But look elsewhere and it is struggling. Funny how CSN-Philadelphia has disputes with many providers over cost, but finds its way - without issue - to a system in the same controlled group. WHY? Because the parent company has made a calculated risk on price. By setting the price to third parties high enough it discourages competition for cable/satellite from carrying the same channel.

If I charge company A $1 my revenue is $1 and my expense is $1. I net to zero in the controlled group. True market may be 50 cents and since I set it at $1 no one else carries the channel. At the opposite end, because I am cable company A I keep subs I might otherwise lose. Overall company A and it's controlled subsidiaries come out way ahead. It's a basic premise. I charge myself whatever I want knowing that consolidated-wise I am the same. I keep competitors out.

If I control both sides of the transaction then it is NOT at arm's length. It's the same arm.

#1275 OFFLINE   iceturkee

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 01:16 PM

I'm sure some of those Bright House folks wish they would add the missing 20 or so RSN's in HD that D* has that they don't down there. Etc, etc. ;) No one has it all.


and some of us dtv customers would like to have the number of basic national hd that my cable company has. i'm lucky right now, i can afford both. but come january somebody is going to get the boot.

#1276 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 01:17 PM

DirecTV and SatelliteRacer however HAVE power, and there IS a game on tonight that isn't on national TV. They could confirm or deny it will be carried.

As a matter of fact.... NONE of the games for the rest of this MONTH will be on any other channel besides TWC's SportsNet.

Also: Testing does not mean a deal has been reached. We have seen this with ION.


"Practically" the rest of the month, yes;

Until Nov. 30th anyhow with Denver at the Lakers to be nationally broadcast by ESPN along with TWC SN.

The previous 12 games beginning tonight though are exclusively on TWC SN.

#1277 OFFLINE   WebTraveler

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 01:18 PM

No, I think you are naive if you think that a parent company would run a small subsidiary at a loss on its books, when it can charge the larger company a fee that would make the small one profitable, allowing the big company to take the hit because it can easily absorb it because it has so many other sources of income, plus that might lend itself to more tax breaks, and allow them to say to other providers, hey, we charge ourselves this much, why would I charge you less. That's logical. I don't know why you think the big company would force the small fry in the company to take a hit when there are so many more reasons to have the big company take a hit.


Well, Wall Street, SEC, bankers, IRS, regulators GAAP, IFRS, will all say otherwise for very good reason because a controlled subsidiary is no different from the parent at all. Related companies all file tax returns and prepare financial statements for consolidated groups. Even if a subsidiary elects not to be taxed as part of the consolidated group it nevertheless absorbs it's corporate parent (and all other subs) tax attributes so whether it is on one form or multiple the net tax will be the same.

Stock market price is set by the market (that is, willing buyers and sellers). In the end they could largely care less about how the pots are filled inside the company. Now there could be motivation (if a parent wants to sell a sub instead) to make one sub look good and shift profits over there by changing it's intercompany revenue structure. But true buyers will see through that because they research their purchase. This is exactly what a business appraiser, economist, or valuation engineer will do - determine the true arm's length value w/o any compulsion of insider dealing.

I don't know why you think the big company would force the small fry in the company to take a hit when there are so many more reasons to have the big company take a hit.


Because in the end it is a complete WASH to the parent company. Whether it costs $4 or not is irrelevant. I charge myself $4 and I take in revenue of $4 and I just allocated costs all over the place with NO CHANGE WHATSOEVER in consolidated Net Income. At the same time Time Warner (or whomever, change the names to someone else!) will get and retain existing customers ensuring additional revenue streams from customers that might otherwise leave if they had a choice! So overall the company makes MORE money!

Edited by WebTraveler, 04 November 2012 - 01:25 PM.


#1278 OFFLINE   iceturkee

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 01:19 PM

Point being the guy that tells us stuff is being tested hasnt bewn heard from sixe Sandy. Its possible its being tested. Its possible that its not. The fact that there is a game tonight is largely irrelevant.

Sure they could confirm but that is not consistent with what they tell us. SR tells us that a channel is coming not that it's being tested. CB tells us that he thinks it will be done (and tends to be right). Neither tells us anything about testing because as you point out - testing doesn't mean a deal is done.


knowing swanni, the testing he is probably referring too was an incident mentioned here a few weeks ago. somone saw a twc sportsnet certain program on another channel.

i would be surprised if this is really in test or we would have seen it by now.

#1279 OFFLINE   trainman

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 01:43 PM

Yep, I remember how long it took for Time Warner/BHN to add HBO/MAX GO to there service even though there the parent company of Home Box Office Inc.


Just wanted to note that Time Warner Cable is a completely separate company from Time Warner -- they're only using the Time Warner name as part of a licensing agreement.

Hence the network under discussion in this thread having the specific name "Time Warner Cable SportsNet" -- they're owned by Time Warner Cable, not Time Warner; therefore, they're not affiliated with Time Warner-owned channels such as HBO and CNN.
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#1280 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 01:47 PM

It's time to drop the finer points of channel lineups and return to the topic of the Lakers Network.

:backtotop

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