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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Lakers New Regional TV Network - NOW ON THE AIR


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#121 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 04:11 PM

I've had the $2 Regional Sports fee in the LA area for 2 months now. My guess is that'll go up if the Lakers, Dodgers, and Pac-12 nets require it.


I just checked... my bill (in Orange County) does not show it. Yet.
[Disclaimer] The definition of "soon" is based solely on DirecTV's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "soon" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

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#122 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 04:37 PM

You are not getting it. YES covers more than the immediate NYC area. Go look at an MLB map. Try ALL of New York state, a large chunk of Pennsylvania as well. palm Springs, indeed. Vegas? Give me a break. Lots of empty space.

Love your world numbers. Lakers are up their because of Europe and Kobe. I am talking America. Where the money is coming from and where directv is. You really think any poll that puts Man U on top is pertinent to the USA?

And still, Lakers not equal to Yankees. No one is.

Edit to add:

http://www.mediabist...-network_b50381

Seems to me the Lakers are already on an RSN.

Edited by tonyd79, 28 August 2012 - 04:44 PM.

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#123 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 04:43 PM

You are not getting it. YES covers more than the immediate NYC area. Go look at an MLB map.

And still, Lakers not equal to Yankees. No one is.


1. Of course I checked. New York State. Parts of New Jersey. Parts of Connecticut. Lakers DMA is still larger in size.

2. I never said the Lakers were equal or better. Yankees are worth twice as much from the get go. I said that the Lakers DMA is larger. I also said that YES was owned by the team and as such doesn't have a 150 million a year bill to recoup which TWC will have to get back.

The deal's dynamic's are different. The Lakers franchise isn't worth more than the Yankees. But the cost that viewers will have to pay is higher simply because they are dealing with a "middleman" situation here. Yankees basically talk directly to the TV carriers. Lakers talk to TWC, which in turn talk to the carriers. (And TWC in this case is its own carrier.).

This is NOT about "team importance", it is about how the deal is structured. And as such, Lakers viewers will probably have to shell out more money per subscriber than Yankees viewers will.
[Disclaimer] The definition of "soon" is based solely on DirecTV's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "soon" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

I am the Stig.

#124 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 04:45 PM

1. Of course I checked. New York State. Parts of New Jersey. Parts of Connecticut. Lakers DMA is still larger in size.

2. I never said the Lakers were equal or better. Yankees are worth twice as much from the get go. I said that the Lakers DMA is larger. I also said that YES was owned by the team and as such doesn't have a 150 million a year bill to recoup which TWC will have to get back.

The deal's dynamic's are different. The Lakers franchise isn't worth more than the Yankees. But the cost that viewers will have to pay is higher simply because they are dealing with a "middleman" situation here. Yankees basically talk directly to the TV carriers. Lakers talk to TWC, which in turn talk to the carriers. (And TWC in this case is its own carrier.).

This is NOT about "team importance", it is about how the deal is structured. And as such, Lakers viewers will probably have to shell out more money per subscriber than Yankees viewers will.


Everything is about ratings. The price is not set by the inner workings of the companies. The price is set by sellable value. You are way off on this and being very myopic.

As you were on the PAC 12 in the beginning. Directv cannot live without the PAC 12 network. How's that going?
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#125 OFFLINE   TravelFan1

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 04:49 PM

You are not getting it. YES covers more than the immediate NYC area. Go look at an MLB map. Try ALL of New York state, a large chunk of Pennsylvania as well.

And still, Lakers not equal to Yankees. No one is.

Plus probably 2/3s of New Jersey and at least 1/2 of Connecticut, too.

My point remains: Lakers cannot cost, on a per subscriber basis, more than the Yankees. If the Lakers DMA covers 5x more people than the Yankees - not sure if that's indeed the case, but that's not really relevant - and, per subscriber, La Lakers nets = YES, that means more $$$ flowing to the La Lakers, because it's more total subscribers.

Taking a different angle, Directv would be shooting themselves in the foot if they accept to pay 4 bucks per subscriber to the Lakers, because, come renew time with YES, YES will have a new floor for negotiations - that's right, the Lakers per subscriber fee.

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#126 OFFLINE   Devo1237

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 04:55 PM

I just checked... my bill (in Orange County) does not show it. Yet.


No offense, but I'll be a little ticked if you don't get it and I do! lol

#127 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 06:15 PM

I think you're wrong on this one. The $4/mo (or whatever it is) from the LA-region DTV subscribers that they'd be getting is at best break-even to the amount of money they'd make from new cable subscribers that would ditch DTV to get their beloved Lakers. That's what they're really hoping for, just like Comcast does. They want to be the only option for the die hards and pick up a ton of new subscribers who will then buy PPV, internet, telephone, etc. Honestly, if the feds didn't require them to offer their product to DTV, I bet they wouldn't even bother talking to at all.


The problem is your only taking about some of the la market,. TWC doesn't own the entire Lakers market where this channel can be broadcast. I'd be surprised if they covered more than 50% of the market. I am in a charter area myself, so I am screwed no matter what unless TWC does some deals. Plus there is no way they can gain as many customers in the areas they control to offset what they would lose if they have no carriers in the other areas where they don't have service. This just isn't like any area that comcast is holding hostage. Not like any of those areas at all.

#128 OFFLINE   Ronmort

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 06:17 PM

Yes also carries the Nets games, Big 12 basketball, Yale football and basketball games, some ACC bb games.

#129 OFFLINE   Devo1237

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 06:30 PM

The problem is your only taking about some of the la market,. TWC doesn't own the entire Lakers market where this channel can be broadcast. I'd be surprised if they covered more than 50% of the market. I am in a charter area myself, so I am screwed no matter what unless TWC does some deals. Plus there is no way they can gain as many customers in the areas they control to offset what they would lose if they have no carriers in the other areas where they don't have service. This just isn't like any area that comcast is holding hostage. Not like any of those areas at all.


Actually, they cover most of the area since they absorbed Adelphia and others. This map is old, but gives you a pretty good idea.

http://www.timewarne..._region_map.gif

There's also no reason they can't make a few concessions with Charter and the other cable co's in the area, without giving the same breaks to DTV. From a business standpoint, there's just no reason to give DTV any deal since they can take customers in every area that TWC services. The million dollar question is at what price per subscriber is more valuable to them than the potential gain in subscribers. Sounds like it might be $4.

#130 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 06:38 PM

No offense, but I'll be a little ticked if you don't get it and I do! lol


I have never seen this charge either.... Nor have my folks, or anyone else I know. When did you start seeing it?

#131 OFFLINE   Devo1237

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 06:42 PM

I have never seen this charge either.... Nor have my folks, or anyone else I know. When did you start seeing it?


I've had it since February! What the heck? Is it package based maybe? I have the grandfathered Choice Xtra Classic.

#132 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 06:43 PM

Actually, they cover most of the area since they absorbed Adelphia and others. This map is old, but gives you a pretty good idea.

http://www.timewarne..._region_map.gif

There's also no reason they can't make a few concessions with Charter and the other cable co's in the area, without giving the same breaks to DTV. From a business standpoint, there's just no reason to give DTV any deal since they can take customers in every area that TWC services. The million dollar question is at what price per subscriber is more valuable to them than the potential gain in subscribers. Sounds like it might be $4.


There are literally millions of homes that are not covered by them in the Lakers market. Remember, it goes from the boarder to Fresno, and Nevada and Hawaii too. (I know TW has most of Hawaii and some of san diego too)

I still think that number could easily be for both channels, so its really more like 2, which is what was being said at the get go, and makes sense. The other thing to remember is, they may be asking for more than it might really be worth today so they can bid as high as possible for the dodgers if they already know what their income of this will be.

If they get the Dodgers, then yeah, I think you could then easily compare the sports on this channel to the ones on YES overall as a total, because you will have two of the top 5 franchises in the biggest 2 sports on RSNs. (no nfl is on an rsn) And no one will even think of the Nets as being big time...

#133 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 06:44 PM

I've had it since February! What the heck? Is it package based maybe? I have the grandfathered Choice Xtra Classic.


Did you get service directly from Directv, or through a third party?

If you don't mind me asking what are all your programming charges not including any discounts? Ill compare to mine later and see if maybe yours was far older and thats their way of catching you up or something....

I have the same package.

#134 OFFLINE   Devo1237

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 06:51 PM

Did you get service directly from Directv, or through a third party?

If you don't mind me asking what are all your programming charges not including any discounts? Ill compare to mine later and see if maybe yours was far older and thats their way of catching you up or something....

I have the same package.


I subscribed through DirecTV back in 2003.

Before discounts my charges are:

Choice Xtra Classic for $68.99
HBO & Sports for $27
HD access for $10
Regional Sports Fee for $2
DVR fee for $8
DTV Cinema for $0
Whole Home for $3

I do have a few discounts, but that would be B.S. if they were charging me extra because of that...

#135 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 08:19 PM

There are literally millions of homes that are not covered by them in the Lakers market. Remember, it goes from the boarder to Fresno, and Nevada and Hawaii too. (I know TW has most of Hawaii and some of san diego too)

I still think that number could easily be for both channels, so its really more like 2, which is what was being said at the get go, and makes sense. The other thing to remember is, they may be asking for more than it might really be worth today so they can bid as high as possible for the dodgers if they already know what their income of this will be.

If they get the Dodgers, then yeah, I think you could then easily compare the sports on this channel to the ones on YES overall as a total, because you will have two of the top 5 franchises in the biggest 2 sports on RSNs. (no nfl is on an rsn) And no one will even think of the Nets as being big time...


Totally agree with last paragraph.
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#136 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 08:20 PM

Actually, they cover most of the area since they absorbed Adelphia and others. This map is old, but gives you a pretty good idea.

http://www.timewarne..._region_map.gif

There's also no reason they can't make a few concessions with Charter and the other cable co's in the area, without giving the same breaks to DTV. From a business standpoint, there's just no reason to give DTV any deal since they can take customers in every area that TWC services. The million dollar question is at what price per subscriber is more valuable to them than the potential gain in subscribers. Sounds like it might be $4.


Giving one company breaks over another is not quite legal.
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#137 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 08:00 AM

Giving one company breaks over another is not quite legal.


Unless you own the channel. TWC isn't paying it's own channel carriage rights, and it would be a wash anyways. :D Same with Comcast owned channels.

And what is "a break". Say DirecTV does carry PAC12 for instance after long negotiations, chances are they have been given a discount over what cable companies agreed to months ago.

Some people pay sticker price for a car, I managed to knock of $2k off of my new car a few years back, and $500 off of a second hand truck I bought. (And that $2k was after their "severely discounted must-go special deal price".)
[Disclaimer] The definition of "soon" is based solely on DirecTV's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "soon" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

I am the Stig.

#138 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 08:14 AM

Unless you own the channel. TWC isn't paying it's own channel carriage rights, and it would be a wash anyways. :D Same with Comcast owned channels.

And what is "a break". Say DirecTV does carry PAC12 for instance after long negotiations, chances are they have been given a discount over what cable companies agreed to months ago.

Some people pay sticker price for a car, I managed to knock of $2k off of my new car a few years back, and $500 off of a second hand truck I bought. (And that $2k was after their "severely discounted must-go special deal price".)


Do not believe that is true. TV carriage is strictly regulated. It is not a car deal. And any discount directv would get would then be reflected in other contracts which typically include favored nation clauses.

I do believe that Comcast pays itself for CSN Philly. I know that one part of my company pays another for services.
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#139 OFFLINE   Devo1237

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 09:41 AM

Do not believe that is true. TV carriage is strictly regulated. It is not a car deal. And any discount directv would get would then be reflected in other contracts which typically include favored nation clauses.


If that was true, why are there carriage standoffs every few months among different providers? They would all just be saying yes or no to the set price of each channel. But that isn't how it works. ESPN demands X from DirecTV because they want it in a certain package for a certain rate, and DTV wants them to provide 5 extra live tennis streams during the grand slams, meanwhile ESPN demands Y from TWC because they also have to give online access to the ESPN3 networks on their internet services, etc. They can fudge numbers anyway they want, and the cable co's know. The easiest method is the one we're seeing, "We charge everyone a minimum $4/mo to carry our precious Lakers. See look, my right hand is paying my left hand $4, so we all know it's a fair price!"

#140 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 10:08 AM

If that was true, why are there carriage standoffs every few months among different providers? They would all just be saying yes or no to the set price of each channel. But that isn't how it works. ESPN demands X from DirecTV because they want it in a certain package for a certain rate, and DTV wants them to provide 5 extra live tennis streams during the grand slams, meanwhile ESPN demands Y from TWC because they also have to give online access to the ESPN3 networks on their internet services, etc. They can fudge numbers anyway they want, and the cable co's know. The easiest method is the one we're seeing, "We charge everyone a minimum $4/mo to carry our precious Lakers. See look, my right hand is paying my left hand $4, so we all know it's a fair price!"


There is still play within the rules (a lot has to do with bundling and bulk rates but still has to stay within reasonable reach for every system). And most of the standoffs are because the channel wants MORE money, which, of course is setting the NEXT round of deals.

As for left hand paying right hand, that is exactly how big companies work. Our IT group is part of our company but the rest of the company pays them through the nose for IT services. There are no deals. You may think it is just fake money but it is not. It is important to everyone in the company. Companies are not just one financial entity. Different cost centers have different budgets and must maintain their own profit/loss. They have different burden and overhead rates and may even have their own sets of benefits for their employees and often have to deal with different local realities (government regulations, etc).

TWC and Comcast, as examples, are not monolithic. Very far from it. And you can bet your bottom dollar that the money going from a Comcast system in Delaware or anywhere else to CSN Philly is real and means a lot to both CSN Philly and to that Comcast system in Delaware.
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