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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Transponder Maps: Domestic, LatinAm and SkyMex New Data 12/19/2012


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417 replies to this topic

#61 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 12:10 PM

Anomalies with today's Network 615, Lafayette, LA data:


  • Line 2: *WLBT indicates WLBT mpeg4 still in *TEST mode
  • Line 3: WLBT SD (mpeg2) indicates "tune to channel 33"
  • Line 7: *KLPB indicates KLPB mpeg4 still in *TEST mode, but line 6 shows KLPB mpeg4 Virtual already in operation
  • Line 9: *KLWB indicates KLWB mpeg4 still in *TEST mode
This all makes great sense to the Lafayette folks?


Might be best to ask in the Lafayette thread...

~Alan

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#62 OFFLINE   Gary Toma

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 02:03 PM

.
NEW HD CONUS CHANNELS IN *TEST
None|No New HD CONUS Channels In *TEST

.
.
NEW HD CONUS CHANNELS ACTIVE
None|No New HD CONUS Channels Active

.
.
NEW HD-MARKET ACTIVITY
None|No New HD LIL MARKETS In *TEST

.
.
NEW HD LIL CHANNELS IN *TEST
NET|NAME|CHL|NOTES0|NOTES1
656|*WIYE|47|A3 Parkersburg 47 WIYE CBS|CBS services from WIYEDT-TV, 47, Parkersburg, WV

.
.
NEW HD LIL CHANNELS ACTIVE
NET|NAME|CHL|NOTES0|NOTES1
536|WUTF|66|A3 Boston 66 WUTF TFT|Telefutura services from WUTFDT-TV, 66, Boston, MA
659|KFPH|13|A3 Phoenix 13 KFPH TFT|Telefutura services from KFPHDT-TV, 13, Phoenix, AZ
659|KTAZ|39|A3 Phoenix 39 KTAZ TMO|Telemundo services from KTAZDT-TV, 39, Phoenix, AZ
661|KPDX|49|A3 Portland 49 KPDX MNT|MNT services from KPDXDT-TV, 49, Portland, OR
666|WRDC|28|A3 Raleigh-Durham 28 WRDC MNT|MNT services from WRDCDT-TV, 28, Raleigh, NC
666|WUVC|40|A3 Raleigh-Durham 40 WUVC UNI|Univision services from WUVCDT-TV, 40, Raleigh-Durham, NC
692|KNPN|26|A3 St. Joseph 26 KNPN FOX|FOX services from KNPNDT-TV, 26, St. Joseph, MO
702|KHRR|40|A3 Tucson 40 KHRR TMO|Telemundo services from KHRRDT-TV, 40, Tucson, AZ
702|KFTU|3|A3 Tucson 03 KFTU TFT|Telefutura services from KFTUDT-TV, 03, Tucson, AZ
702|KUVE|46|A3 Tucson 46 KUVE UNI|Univision services from KUVEDT-TV, 46, Tucson, AZ

.
.
NEW SD LIL CHANNELS IN *TEST
None|No SD LIL Channels In Test

.
.
NEW SD LIL CHANNELS ACTIVE
None|No SD LIL Channels Active

.
.
HD OR SD LIL CHANNELS REMOVED
None|No HD or SD LIL Channels Removed

.
.
Keys in the TPN Map:

  • Channels in the TPN Map whose Names begin
    with an asterisk (*) are in TEST status
  • Channels shaded in blue are MPEG4. All HD channels
    are MPEG4, but SD channels can also be in MPEG4.
  • Complete information including Satellite and TPN assignment
    is detailed in the ‘LIL’ tab of the TPN MAP Excel.

Edited by gct, 29 August 2012 - 02:10 PM.



#63 ONLINE   Go Beavs

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 07:31 AM

Wow, with the addition of Portland local KPDX, there are now 9 HD channels on 103(s) tpn 21. :eek2:

That's pretty impressive. PQ still seems pretty good.

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#64 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 10:24 AM

Wow, with the addition of Portland local KPDX, there are now 9 HD channels on 103(s) tpn 21. :eek2:

That's pretty impressive. PQ still seems pretty good.


I started to say one might be KA-hi and the other KA-lo, but ???????????

Some of us are apparently full at 3 HD channels and 3 SD channels... :rolleyes:

~Alan

#65 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 11:37 AM

Wow, with the addition of Portland local KPDX, there are now 9 HD channels on 103(s) tpn 21. :eek2:

That's pretty impressive. PQ still seems pretty good.


Is that a space way tpn?

#66 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 12:22 PM

Is that a space way tpn?


No;

Tp. 21 at 103(s) comes from D10 or 12.

------------------------------------------------

103(s) tps. 1-6 are from SW1.

103(s) tps. 15-24 come from D10 or D12.

#67 ONLINE   Go Beavs

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 12:41 PM

I started to say one might be KA-hi and the other KA-lo, but ???????????

Some of us are apparently full at 3 HD channels and 3 SD channels... :rolleyes:

~Alan


Yeah, is sure doesn't appear to be a transponder capacity issue...

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D* customer since Oct '99


#68 OFFLINE   Gary Toma

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 09:05 PM

Wow, with the addition of Portland local KPDX, there are now 9 HD channels on 103(s) tpn 21. :eek2: .....


Sure wish 9 HD channels per TPN were true. However - the state of the art with Directv today is a maximum of 6 HD/MPEG4 channels per physical transponder. And even six per TPN is a relatively new initiative requiring some new compression hardware. There are some other providers that get one or two more HD channels per TPN, but they do that only by bit robbing and lowering the resolution of the content you see.

If you sort the "LIL TPN Map" by SAT and then by TPN, you will see many, many channels assigned to a given TPN. In the case at hand, we have perhaps 70 channels carried by a virtual TPN 21 which are being transmitted as repeated spot beams, each carrying different content.

To say it another way: the Frequency and Polarity assigned to virtual TPN 21 is being re-used over and over to provide many different spot beams. It is the same concept as re-using the Channel 6 frequency for broadcast stations over and over in cities across the country. Clearly this approach works only with LIL spot beams and not with CONUS beams. Additionally, in the case at hand, we cannot distinguish the source as D10 or D12; in reality the load is shared across the two satellites.

The key concept is that we can have multiple physical TPNs masquerading as a 'virtual' TPN 21 and that these masquerading physical TPNs can even be on different physical satellites.


Edited by gct, 30 August 2012 - 09:16 PM.



#69 ONLINE   Go Beavs

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 10:17 PM

Ok, I know that the spot beam transponder frequencies are reused in different geographic areas but how does that work for one area, like Portland? Are you saying that even though all my LiL's come from 103(s) tpn 21, it actually could be coming from more than one transponder?

So even though the tpn maps show all 9 Portland locals coming from 103(s) tpn 21, they could by transmitted by two different transponders and that's how they stuff all my locals into one tpn?

EDIT: Re-reading my original post on this issue, I should clarify that I didn't mean there were 9 "random" HD channels on 103(s) tpn 21. I meant to say that the Portland, OR DMA now has 9 HD LiL channels, all coming from 103(s) tpn 21.

Edited by Go Beavs, 30 August 2012 - 10:31 PM.
Edited to clarify

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#70 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 10:32 PM

Ok, I know that the spot beam transponder frequencies are reused in different geographic areas but how does that work for one area, like Portland? Are you saying that even though all my LiL's come from 103(s) tpn 21, it actually could be coming from more than one transponder?

So even though the tpn maps show all 9 Portland locals coming from 103(s) tpn 21, they could by transmitted by two different transponders and that's how they stuff all my locals into one tpn?


Umm, you're contradicting to yourself ;).

#71 ONLINE   Go Beavs

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 10:47 PM

Umm, you're contradicting to yourself ;).


Umm, yeah, looks that way. Just trying to understand.

To me, it really looks like all my HD locals (all 9 of them) come from one tpn but gct says probably not. :confused:

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#72 OFFLINE   Gary Toma

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 11:20 PM

....
To me, it really looks like all my HD locals (all 9 of them) come from one tpn but gct says probably not. :confused:


Nope - agree with you fully. Your HD locals appear to all come from virtual TPN 21, at the frequency and polarization assigned by the FCC to TPN 21. Here's the leap to concept: there are at least two, perhaps more, physical TPNs masquerading as virtual TPN 21 (in terms of freq, polarization) which are providing your channels.


#73 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 11:23 PM

I'll give another hint: in gct's tables you should see a column "TID" - that's unique ID for all tpns on each location, include sat's clusters.

So, when you sorting your subset of local channels, add the column into sort criteria before TPN#.
Then you'll see if all the nine channels on same physical tpn. These TPN values are logical values, to help customers read setting screen and correlate it with FCC docs and common sense of max 32 tpn per one sat location. While receivers/DVRs using the TIDs to tune to physical tpn for obtain requested channel.

#74 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 12:11 AM

Nope - agree with you fully. Your HD locals appear to all come from virtual TPN 21, at the frequency and polarization assigned by the FCC to TPN 21. Here's the leap to concept: there are at least two, perhaps more, physical TPNs masquerading as virtual TPN 21 (in terms of freq, polarization) which are providing your channels.


I'm confused as well on this gct;

According to Doctor j's spotbeam map, the spotbeam covering the Portland market using tp. 21 is A4BC at 103(s).

That's Antenna 4 beam 12 emanating from either D10 or D12. Now at the time Doctor j produced the document their were 7 HD locals active there.

KATU-2
KOIN-6
KGW-8
KOPB-10
KPTV-12
KPXG-22
KRCW-32

Now since then add;

KUNP-47
KPDX-49

And that's 9 total for tp. 21 on SB A4BC at 103(s) :confused:

#75 OFFLINE   HoTat2

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 12:24 AM

I'll give another hint: in gct's tables you should see a column "TID" - that's unique ID for all tpns on each location, include sat's clusters.

So, when you sorting your subset of local channels, add the column into sort criteria before TPN#.
Then you'll see if all the nine channels on same physical tpn. These TPN values are logical values, to help customers read setting screen and correlate it with FCC docs and common sense of max 32 tpn per one sat location. While receivers/DVRs using the TIDs to tune to physical tpn for obtain requested channel.


They (the channels on Tp. 21) all use TID "188" P. Smith, indicating it's the same physical transponder aboard either D10 or D12.

And the last I spoke to gct about this issue the TIDs could not yet distinguish between D10 or D12's spotbeams since we do not have a list for D12's TID spotbeam range.

It could totally overlap with D10's like D4S and D9S SB ranges do, or it may have a partial or completely separate one. It isn't known yet.

#76 ONLINE   Go Beavs

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 07:19 AM

Ok, so we don't know which physical transponder is sending out the virtual 103(s) tpn 21, but since they are all using the same TID, they're from one physical transponder. We just don't know if that's from D10 or D12.

Either way though, they're still putting 9 LiL HD channels into one frequency range, right? Putting 9 channels into the bandwidth of one transponder?

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#77 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 09:08 AM

Ok, so we don't know which physical transponder is sending out the virtual 103(s) tpn 21, but since they are all using the same TID, they're from one physical transponder. We just don't know if that's from D10 or D12.

Either way though, they're still putting 9 LiL HD channels into one frequency range, right? Putting 9 channels into the bandwidth of one transponder?


Everything is correct. Almost. :) You missed just HoTat2 reply : tp. 21 is A4BC at 103(s)
I would try to see if the TID#188 spilling to my territory - perhaps I could provide some additional info for you ...

#78 ONLINE   Go Beavs

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 09:48 AM

Everything is correct. Almost. :) You missed just HoTat2 reply : tp. 21 is A4BC at 103(s)
I would try to see if the TID#188 spilling to my territory - perhaps I could provide some additional info for you ...


Well here's the beam pattern of A4BC that is for the Portland DMA. I'm located due north of the "tack" on the map, right on the north/south stretch of the Columbia River.

My dish is well aligned (99c strengths in the 90's) and I get 97 for my signal strength on 103(s) tpn 21. It used to be a consistent 100 before D12 went up. Not sure if that means anything... :)

Not knowing where you live, I can't tell if the beam falls into your "territory".

TIA

103 (s) A4BC.jpg

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#79 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 10:27 AM

Looks promising - I'm between yellow and red isobars.

EDIT. Nope, can't lock on it here. H23 is reporting "Not Acquired" and a signal chart below telling me, the dish is properly alignment (see that spikes to 10 or 20 dB) - it's just orientation of antenna's reflector and whole sat (with its little precession) allow see the signal for short bursts.

Attached Thumbnails

  • 103W D10 tp21.PNG

Edited by P Smith, 31 August 2012 - 11:39 AM.


#80 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 11:59 AM

H23 shows signals here from 103(s):
tp |signal|dB
15|100|16.5
17|100|18.5
18|100|18.3
20|42|4.5
23|100|16.9
24|100|16.5





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