Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo

DirecTV/Viacom Dispute?


  • Please log in to reply
3057 replies to this topic

#1776 OFFLINE   tonyd79

tonyd79

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 12,865 posts
  • LocationColumbia, MD
Joined: Jul 24, 2006

Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:18 PM

That's not true - fees have already started to get raised on them. Starz for example got 30M a year in their first deal, and demanded more than $500 for their next. It's why Starz content is no longer on NF.

And as far as their model - they are just a different version of Cable and Sat. A non-telco on demand IPTV service is the most apt comparison. Its equally as valid if they can figure out how to get more content. And they'll figure that out quickly if Viacom and the like are no longer feeling beholden to their Cable/Sat partners. The only reason they stay away from netflix now if their traditional bed fellows prefer that they do so. But that changes if D* is no longer in the picture.


You just made my point. They fail quickly when the prices go up. And, no, they are not the same model. They do not own the pipeline which cable and satellite do. Huge difference.
LR: HR34-700, H24-200, Fios DVR, BD350 Blu Ray, Roku Netflix Player, Chromecast, Sony 65w850 TV
BR: HR21-200, Viso 32LX, DB350 Blu Ray
Dish: Slimline, SWM8
Other: genieGo

...Ads Help To Support This Site...

#1777 OFFLINE   tulanejosh

tulanejosh

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 426 posts
Joined: May 23, 2008

Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:19 PM

Correct, and furthermore let's see how viable the NF model is when they have to double or even triple their subcriber fees.

I dropped physical media from my NF subscription when they raised rates on me last year (as did hundreds of thousands of other subs). I recently dumped my streaming service as I had not watched anything of value in the last 6 months. I do however maintain Amazon Prime because I like the express shipping options and I purchase a ton of goods from Amazon. Their streaming video service is merely a bonus but would not come close to replacing my sat provider.


People are already comfortable paying sat and cable $150 month. $25 - $75 for NF is a relative steal.

Cost won't be NF problem. Bandwidth caps are another story.

#1778 OFFLINE   jdskycaster

jdskycaster

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 272 posts
Joined: Sep 01, 2008

Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:19 PM

I personally applaud DTV for standing up to Viacom just as I did Dish standing up to AMC. Something has to change and no change has ever been affected by maintaining status quo. I will live without AMC on Dish - I can get it elsewhere if I feel it is worth the price they are asking per show. Although I think losing 17 channels is a bit tougher to swallow I can honestly say if Dish were in the same situation I would want them to react the same way as DTV.

#1779 OFFLINE   MartyS

MartyS

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 2,104 posts
Joined: Dec 29, 2006

Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:20 PM

I'm simply amazed at the number of lawyers and accountants we have on DBSTalk.
Marty

My Setup

Life is in HD and 3D -- be sure to enjoy it!!

Never argue with an idiot.
He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

#1780 OFFLINE   tulanejosh

tulanejosh

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 426 posts
Joined: May 23, 2008

Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:21 PM

You just made my point. They fail quickly when the prices go up. And, no, they are not the same model. They do not own the pipeline which cable and satellite do. Huge difference.


That's a fair point on the pipes. You are correct there.

But i think it's more an issue of not wanting to maintain two $100 services not a reluctance to pay NF $100 if the content is there.

#1781 OFFLINE   lparsons21

lparsons21

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 3,571 posts
  • LocationHerrin, IL
Joined: Mar 04, 2006

Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:22 PM

My 18 year old is upset. She lost all her favorite shows and channels! lol I told her maybe it was time to grow up and watch some adult shows! :lol: That didn't go over to well! :nono2:


I can imagine having raised one myself and fostering probably another 30 or so teenage girls.

If you're real lucky she'll go in her room and pout!! :)

Or write some drivelly poetry, or tweet until her thumbs go numb! :)

Lloyd
Receiver : Dish Hopper w/Sling & Super Joey, Genie
HDTV : Mitsi WD-73742 73" 3D DLP
Surround: Denon AVR-2113ci 7.1 Setup

 


#1782 OFFLINE   Darth Malgus

Darth Malgus

    Cool Member

  • Registered
  • 25 posts
Joined: Jul 04, 2012

Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:23 PM

Good, I have repeat long term customers. I also have a waiting list, can't keep up.

You need to remember word of mouth goes a very long way.

Last thing you want to do is piss off the customers.



I think your missing the point, you can't use "good feelings" as currency, at some point you have to make money.

#1783 OFFLINE   tonyd79

tonyd79

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 12,865 posts
  • LocationColumbia, MD
Joined: Jul 24, 2006

Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:23 PM

People are already comfortable paying sat and cable $150 month. $25 - $75 for NF is a relative steal.

Cost won't be NF problem. Bandwidth caps are another story.


Another bad parallel. NF is nowhere near delivering the same content and never will be. They will not be delivering sports or news. They are only the On Demand part of the equation and in your price analysis remember that you have to pay for high(er) bandwidth to support them especially of you do multiple TVs.

Bring realism into the equation.
LR: HR34-700, H24-200, Fios DVR, BD350 Blu Ray, Roku Netflix Player, Chromecast, Sony 65w850 TV
BR: HR21-200, Viso 32LX, DB350 Blu Ray
Dish: Slimline, SWM8
Other: genieGo

#1784 OFFLINE   Darth Malgus

Darth Malgus

    Cool Member

  • Registered
  • 25 posts
Joined: Jul 04, 2012

Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:26 PM

That's kinda funny. I'll admit that.

Also with the real world comments - you gotta go back a lot of pages, but i was responding to someone else that made a comment about the real world. I hate that phrase personally. Real is subjective.



Two points on which we can agree :)

#1785 OFFLINE   Darth Malgus

Darth Malgus

    Cool Member

  • Registered
  • 25 posts
Joined: Jul 04, 2012

Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:30 PM

you got that wrong - it's $1B more over the life of a 5 year agreement, so approximately $200M more per year.




I was not referring to the actual numbers going on in the real life negotiations, I was referring to the numbers thrown out as an extreme example. If you look at the posts, the example made states 1 bil a month for 20 mil subs = $5 per sub.

#1786 OFFLINE   APB101

APB101

    Icon

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 985 posts
  • LocationMichigan
Joined: Sep 01, 2010

Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:32 PM

I'm simply amazed at the number of lawyers and accountants we have on DBSTalk.


:blush: :lol: :goodjob: :glasses: :icon_da:



#1787 OFFLINE   darkpowrjd

darkpowrjd

    Mentor

  • Registered
  • 43 posts
Joined: Jul 10, 2012

Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:33 PM

From what I gather, we have:

- People who don't ever want to see a Viacom owned channel again, and will stop at nothing to drive that point home, going so far as to insult and troll those that dare to disagree with them.
- People who just want DTV and Via to come to an agreement already so people will shut up about it.
- People who are upset at Via for going as far as they are about this, but wouldn't mind having the channels back.
- People who want DTV to at least consider the possible thing Via wants: their other channels on the service. They might think of DTV as a sort of channel nazi that is deciding what viewers value, as they did with G4, and they see the G4 issue as the stumbling block in DTV's way.

In all of these, it seems the opinions are pretty much set in stone, and good luck trying to get any of them to have an open mind (or to even stop trolling the thread constantly).

One common denominator seems to be present, though: Via and DTV seem to not believe in happy mediums, middle of the road agreements. It's all "my way or the highway" and childish games that makes us wonder how the people that own these companies passed high school!

#1788 OFFLINE   TheRatPatrol

TheRatPatrol

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 6,867 posts
  • LocationPhoenix, AZ
Joined: Oct 01, 2003

Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:37 PM

Here is the Viacom MTV pack on C band:
http://skyvision.com.../index.html#mtv

Mini packs do exist and could on Direct too if they wanted it. The Viacom channels are working fine on my C band sub.


I say bring back a C Band type of distribution, cut out the middle man, and let the consumer pick the channels they want. ;)

#1789 OFFLINE   lparsons21

lparsons21

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 3,571 posts
  • LocationHerrin, IL
Joined: Mar 04, 2006

Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:40 PM

While much of your post is right on, you miss the really big picture.

Both D* and E* know that at some dollar level, they will reach the tipping point when people will just say screw it to pay tv, or reduce their subscription level to some very low package. And they know that with the economy the way it is with prices of practically everything going up and getting less for it, and the paychecks/retirement checks of the consumer not even coming close to keeping up, that tipping point is coming too close.

So that's where we're at. Both sides of the table think they are being totally reasonable in their positions. But both D* and E* know that if they give in to these outlandish rate hikes, then the next content producer will want hikes in that same general range. And that is certainly not what any of us want!

Lloyd
Receiver : Dish Hopper w/Sling & Super Joey, Genie
HDTV : Mitsi WD-73742 73" 3D DLP
Surround: Denon AVR-2113ci 7.1 Setup

 


#1790 OFFLINE   lparsons21

lparsons21

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 3,571 posts
  • LocationHerrin, IL
Joined: Mar 04, 2006

Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:41 PM

I say bring back a C Band type of distribution, cut out the middle man, and let the consumer pick the channels they want. ;)


LOL! C-Band has always been with middle men. You never bought the package/channel from the actual content provider.

Lloyd
Receiver : Dish Hopper w/Sling & Super Joey, Genie
HDTV : Mitsi WD-73742 73" 3D DLP
Surround: Denon AVR-2113ci 7.1 Setup

 


#1791 OFFLINE   tulanejosh

tulanejosh

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 426 posts
Joined: May 23, 2008

Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:52 PM

Another bad parallel. NF is nowhere near delivering the same content and never will be. They will not be delivering sports or news. They are only the On Demand part of the equation and in your price analysis remember that you have to pay for high(er) bandwidth to support them especially of you do multiple TVs.

Bring realism into the equation.


It was also once probably said that there will never be satellites in space Beaming down tv for you to watch. Never is a strong word and you have no way to really truly prove never.

#1792 OFFLINE   georule

georule

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 1,600 posts
Joined: Mar 31, 2010

Posted 13 July 2012 - 04:06 PM

Well, it's probably not in HD, but D* adding Disney, Jr (noted to be a permanent addition in the PR, tho probably what they really mean is "not just until Viacom settles") is certainly a serious development. That's a long-term committment, unlike (probably) what Viacom had in mind in taking down online access.
LR(non-CE): HR44, Mits 65C9; Office/FR (CE): HR22-100 + AM21, Mits 60737 + Mits 3DA1 3D adapter. Spare bedroom (non-CE), HR23. Genie WHDVR, wireless networking (yay!)

#1793 OFFLINE   bobcamp1

bobcamp1

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 895 posts
Joined: Nov 08, 2007

Posted 13 July 2012 - 04:21 PM

Well, it's probably not in HD, but D* adding Disney, Jr (noted to be a permanent addition in the PR, tho probably what they really mean is "not just until Viacom settles") is certainly a serious development. That's a long-term committment, unlike (probably) what Viacom had in mind in taking down online access.


Well, it's long term until the Disney/ESPN/ABC contract is up. Then it goes off the air while the contract is negotiated.

When exactly is that? I have to plan on not having those channels for a couple of weeks.

#1794 OFFLINE   jasonblair

jasonblair

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 549 posts
Joined: Sep 05, 2006

Posted 13 July 2012 - 04:26 PM

I'm simply amazed at the number of lawyers and accountants we have on DBSTalk.

The real intellectual property and communications industry lawyers (like myself) remain silent on the issue... :-)
HR24 - Samsung UN55D8000, HR22 - Panasonic PT-AE7000U, H24 - Samsung HL-S5668W, MRV, Slimline SWM5

#1795 OFFLINE   Davenlr

Davenlr

    Geek til I die

  • Registered
  • 9,090 posts
Joined: Sep 16, 2006

Posted 13 July 2012 - 04:40 PM

Now that they added Disney Jr... all that is left is to switch FUSE to HD, Contract with John Stewart and Stephen Colbert to do their shows on the AUDIENCE network, and use the remaining recovered HD space and money to obtain BBCA, H2, NatGeoWild, and a few other requested channels. Then call it a day and watch Viacom stock drop :)

Tivo Premier XL4, Tivo Premier, Tivo HD whole home on Xfinity HD, DirecTv Whole Home with 39" high gain KaKu dish, Roku3,SageTv 8 TB Win8 Server -> DVDO Edge-> Denon AVR, Klipsch KB15's/Panasonic 55ST60 plasma"


#1796 OFFLINE   carl6

carl6

    Hall Of Fame

  • Moderators
  • 11,473 posts
  • LocationSeattle, WA
Joined: Nov 15, 2005

Posted 13 July 2012 - 04:44 PM

The real intellectual property and communications industry lawyers (like myself) remain silent on the issue... :-)


Good. Why would we want to confuse an emotional argument with facts :lol:

#1797 OFFLINE   APB101

APB101

    Icon

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 985 posts
  • LocationMichigan
Joined: Sep 01, 2010

Posted 13 July 2012 - 04:46 PM

Now that they added Disney Jr... all that is left is to switch FUSE to HD, Contract with John Stewart and Stephen Colbert to do their shows on the AUDIENCE network, and use the remaining recovered HD space and money to obtain BBCA, H2, NatGeoWild, and a few other requested channels. Then call it a day and watch Viacom stock drop :)


At least 20 HDs in addition to what you had mentioned (including the HD for Disney Junior).

#1798 OFFLINE   susanandmark

susanandmark

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 430 posts
Joined: Feb 15, 2007

Posted 13 July 2012 - 04:48 PM

And not to disparage anyone's math but 20 million x 5 = 100 million a month, we are missing a zero in there to make up that [sic] $1 billion more A MONTH for same product!!!".


I apologize for the typo. It should have stated "year" not "month." I corrected it. Of course, typo or not, you are also taking it out of context, I was using it as an example of an unnecessarily inflammatory statement--a "cheat" of the facts--of the type that is being used by DirecTV and Viacom to rile up their bases, not as a statement of belief or accuracy or "statistic to make my point."

My point was that both sides the "pennies a day" and "Viacom wants to increase your bill 30%" talking points are bogus. Viacom is not Oliver Twist ("please sir, can I have some more") and DirecTV is not Dudley Do Right.

A good article about the level of discourse and debate and likely eventual outcome despite all this hype: http://money.cnn.com...gy (Technology)

So they are going to take away our channels for goodness knows how long and save a lousy, what 30 cents PER YEAR per customer? (Difference between the 30% increase Viacom reports that it requested and the 27% the quoted industry analysts think they'll eventually get.) I'm sure DirecTV is spending that, and then some, on the negative PR campaign, incentives to customers and other nonsense. Just frustrating! So they've "got my back" how again????

Edited by susanandmark, 13 July 2012 - 04:56 PM.


#1799 OFFLINE   David MacLeod

David MacLeod

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 5,689 posts
Joined: Jan 29, 2008

Posted 13 July 2012 - 04:55 PM

I'm simply amazed at the number of lawyers and accountants we have on DBSTalk.

I would have used a different description......
Dave MacLeod
S.I.H.

#1800 OFFLINE   Billzebub

Billzebub

    Godfather

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 627 posts
  • LocationPittsburgh, PA
Joined: Jan 01, 2007

Posted 13 July 2012 - 04:55 PM

Obviously if the cost per subscriber to keep Viacom went up by $10.96 per annum, we would see a rate increase at the beginning of 2013 of no less than $10.96...just to break even on the cost of continuing the existing content. If you factor in other increases in DirecTV's CODB I would guess a $15 hike would be a more realistinc expectation.

With the wailing and gnashing of the teeth that goes on around here when we get the normal $3 annual increase I can only imagine the pandemic apoplexy that would accompany a $15 rate increase. Armageddon would ensue.


I wasn't a math major, but how does $10.96 per year translate to $15 per month?




Protected By... spam firewall...And...