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(NEW) DECA connecting and disconnecting at random

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#1 OFFLINE   xmguy

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 11:07 PM

I've had this SWiM and DECA system since April but it's been unused because my account was self suspended (long story). Nevertheless I brought the service back on today and noticed my receivers keep connecting and disconnecting from the DECA cloud. I'll try to access a playlist for say my R22 with my HR24 and it will say all of the sudden it's not connected. Then maybe I'll try and watch something and it will stop and say it was disconnected. I checked the DECA broadband adapter and the DECA modules. Green across the board. All receivers (HR24, 2 R22s and a HR21) show they are connected to the net. I was even downloading from DOD (DirecTV on Demand) and the connection dropped then reconnected. I'm not sure what's going on. Never had this issue prior to DECA when I had the WH running via Ethernet. Ideas?

1 HR44, 2 HR24s, SWiM 16, SL3 LNB, (CCK) Broadband DECA. DirecTV Subscriber since 2008.


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#2 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 08:03 AM

I'm guessing the RF signal part of the coax network is fine, as you're getting green LEDs.
This suggests there are problems with the packets being sent.
One question is where is the PI?
If it's too close to say the HR24, it's been known to give this type of problem.

http://www.dbstalk.c...53&d=1285094774
A.K.A VOS

#3 OFFLINE   xmguy

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 08:35 AM

I'm guessing the RF signal part of the coax network is fine, as you're getting green LEDs.
This suggests there are problems with the packets being sent.
One question is where is the PI?
If it's too close to say the HR24, it's been known to give this type of problem.

http://www.dbstalk.c...53&d=1285094774


Thank you VOS for replying. You are a legend so I know Im in good hands

Are you referring to the Internet/Ethernet bridge, or the PI for the SWiM?

PI is in my basement. Far away from the receivers. At least in coax terms.

Bridge is next to the HR24. But as with the PI is far away from the splitter/SWiM multi switch.

1 HR44, 2 HR24s, SWiM 16, SL3 LNB, (CCK) Broadband DECA. DirecTV Subscriber since 2008.


#4 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 08:58 AM

Well darn, it doesn't sound like the PI location will be it.
Now we need to look other places.

Might as well verify the coax networking isn't reporting any problems.

On the HR24, if you run a system test it will report a error if there is low throughput, so it's worth checking.

Another thing would be to run the detailed coax networking tests, by pressing the guide & right arrow on the front panel of the 24. This can take a few tries before you get into it and see a screen with coax on the left.
When there select coax and it will show all of the DECA nodes and the loss to each.
At the bottom will show the number of dropped sessions.
Next is the Phy rate Mesh, which shows a matrix of the rates between all the nodes.

Posting the results will show any problems.

If there aren't any, then I'd start thinking the router may be having some affect, so disconnecting the CCK to the router and then rebooting all of the receivers so they change over to their internal IP addresses [169.xx], would be my next step. Running in this state should show if it's still on the DirecTV side, or not.
A.K.A VOS

#5 OFFLINE   xmguy

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 10:04 AM

Well darn, it doesn't sound like the PI location will be it.
Now we need to look other places.

Might as well verify the coax networking isn't reporting any problems.

On the HR24, if you run a system test it will report a error if there is low throughput, so it's worth checking.

Another thing would be to run the detailed coax networking tests, by pressing the guide & right arrow on the front panel of the 24. This can take a few tries before you get into it and see a screen with coax on the left.
When there select coax and it will show all of the DECA nodes and the loss to each.
At the bottom will show the number of dropped sessions.
Next is the Phy rate Mesh, which shows a matrix of the rates between all the nodes.

Posting the results will show any problems.

If there aren't any, then I'd start thinking the router may be having some affect, so disconnecting the CCK to the router and then rebooting all of the receivers so they change over to their internal IP addresses [169.xx], would be my next step. Running in this state should show if it's still on the DirecTV side, or not.


From the Diag screen for Coax

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Attached Thumbnails

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1 HR44, 2 HR24s, SWiM 16, SL3 LNB, (CCK) Broadband DECA. DirecTV Subscriber since 2008.


#6 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 10:11 AM

yep, so this isn't a DECA/coax networking problem.
Those screens show everything is working fine.

Now on to if the router is having an affect and time to remove it from the coax network and test the network without it, by seeing if the problem continues.
A.K.A VOS

#7 OFFLINE   xmguy

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:08 AM

yep, so this isn't a DECA/coax networking problem.
Those screens show everything is working fine.

Now on to if the router is having an affect and time to remove it from the coax network and test the network without it, by seeing if the problem continues.


OK do I just unplug the Ethernet adapter? Also will the DECA still work without it. Should the boxes still beable to see each other even if the router is to blame?

1 HR44, 2 HR24s, SWiM 16, SL3 LNB, (CCK) Broadband DECA. DirecTV Subscriber since 2008.


#8 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 12:14 PM

OK do I just unplug the Ethernet adapter? Also will the DECA still work without it. Should the boxes still beable to see each other even if the router is to blame?

You can simply pull the ethernet connection to your router.
Then reboot each receiver for each to change to their internal IP address.
Once they all find each other, you can start testing if the playback is OK or not.
A.K.A VOS

#9 OFFLINE   xmguy

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 12:30 PM

You can simply pull the ethernet connection to your router.
Then reboot each receiver for each to change to their internal IP address.
Once they all find each other, you can start testing if the playback is OK or not.


will they still find their own ip address if they're running on static ip addresses? We be better to have the receivers on DHCP or static?

1 HR44, 2 HR24s, SWiM 16, SL3 LNB, (CCK) Broadband DECA. DirecTV Subscriber since 2008.


#10 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 12:35 PM

will they still find their own ip address if they're running on static ip addresses? We be better to have the receivers on DHCP or static?

If you've gone "static" that's another wrinkle that needs to be reset.
Before going to no router, reset each receiver's network defaults, or they can't change over to their internal IP without a router.
A.K.A VOS

#11 OFFLINE   xmguy

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 01:07 PM

If you've gone "static" that's another wrinkle that needs to be reset.
Before going to no router, reset each receiver's network defaults, or they can't change over to their internal IP without a router.


I reset each networked receiver to network defaults. Seems to work OK. I'll leave them on Dynamic.

1 HR44, 2 HR24s, SWiM 16, SL3 LNB, (CCK) Broadband DECA. DirecTV Subscriber since 2008.


#12 OFFLINE   Rtm

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 06:27 PM

Im having this same issue to with a Wired BB DECA the nomad and iPad app is having trouble seeing my receivers suddenly I've rebooted a bunch of times and tried static (DHCP reservations) and just dynamic and reset a bunch and I'm still having issues.

I have SWM16 with 2-green label 8-way splitters. Is there anything wrong with my COAX network stats?

Attached Thumbnails

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#13 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 07:36 PM

Im having this same issue to with a Wired BB DECA the nomad and iPad app is having trouble seeing my receivers suddenly I've rebooted a bunch of times and tried static (DHCP reservations) and just dynamic and reset a bunch and I'm still having issues.

I have SWM16 with 2-green label 8-way splitters. Is there anything wrong with my COAX network stats?

Your coax networking shots look fine.
The losses in the second photo are a bit high [still within range] and I only count eight devices, so two 8-ways might be better if they were 4-ways, but this isn't your problem.
A.K.A VOS

#14 OFFLINE   Rtm

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 10:06 PM

Your coax networking shots look fine.
The losses in the second photo are a bit high [still within range] and I only count eight devices, so two 8-ways might be better if they were 4-ways, but this isn't your problem.


Thanks a bunch. Do you have an idea why they might be high? And why isone listed as n/a because it's the receiver I'm at?

3 receivers are on one 8way the other 4 on the other 8 way they all have the medal caps on the, though the unused

Edited by Rtm, 10 July 2012 - 10:11 PM.


#15 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:15 PM

Thanks a bunch. Do you have an idea why they might be high? And why is one listed as n/a because it's the receiver I'm at?

3 receivers are on one 8way the other 4 on the other 8 way they all have the medal caps on the, though the unused

The N/A is because a receiver can't measure the loss to itself.

Loss is the nature of sending RF signals, so managing it is what's needed.

"All those metal caps" are terminations used for ports that don't have receivers. These have a resistor to match the impedance and end up sending the RF signals into the resistor instead of having it go to a receiver where "you" get some use out of it.
Using splitters than aren't as large, means you have less loss and don't need to terminate as many unused ports. [all unused still need to be, but there are simply less].
The SWiM-16 also has more loss in its crossover path between the two outputs.
In your tests, I saw a 40 dB loss path, which is still below the 45 dB limit than starts to cause network problems.
Your network wouldn't work any better with only 30 dB of loss, so the point is you're still within range, but aren't as flexible to making changes before you do reach the limit.
"Also" the larger splitters affect the SAT signals too and this might cause rainfade slightly earlier than with less loss.
A.K.A VOS

#16 OFFLINE   Rtm

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 12:39 AM

The N/A is because a receiver can't measure the loss to itself.

Loss is the nature of sending RF signals, so managing it is what's needed.

"All those metal caps" are terminations used for ports that don't have receivers. These have a resistor to match the impedance and end up sending the RF signals into the resistor instead of having it go to a receiver where "you" get some use out of it.
Using splitters than aren't as large, means you have less loss and don't need to terminate as many unused ports. [all unused still need to be, but there are simply less].
The SWiM-16 also has more loss in its crossover path between the two outputs.
In your tests, I saw a 40 dB loss path, which is still below the 45 dB limit than starts to cause network problems.
Your network wouldn't work any better with only 30 dB of loss, so the point is you're still within range, but aren't as flexible to making changes before you do reach the limit.
"Also" the larger splitters affect the SAT signals too and this might cause rainfade slightly earlier than with less loss.

K thanks I decided to order 2 MSPLIT4R1-03 so hopefully it will help some minor issues I've been having. Idk why I would have such bad stats on all rg-6 besides the runs might be a little long. But all 7 receivers plus the bb deca = 8

#17 OFFLINE   xmguy

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 12:42 AM

To jump back in here. Would it help for sync and internet linking if the receivers or router go out, to change to Static IP again? I've read that if the receivers start up without the router linked then the receivers will switch to internalized IP addresses even after the router is online.

1 HR44, 2 HR24s, SWiM 16, SL3 LNB, (CCK) Broadband DECA. DirecTV Subscriber since 2008.


#18 OFFLINE   Rtm

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 12:58 AM

To jump back in here. Would it help for sync and internet linking if the receivers or router go out, to change to Static IP again? I've read that if the receivers start up without the router linked then the receivers will switch to internalized IP addresses even after the router is online.


You shouldn't have static Ip address try just dynamic, no address reservation/static then unplug your bb deca and restart your router leaving the broadband deca unplugged, then plug it back in, now go push the red button on each receiver and you shouldn't have a problem anymore. Something is really weird with mine right now

What kind of router are you using might I ask?

Tonight mine all gained an up after I plugged my broadband deca back After i had reset them all and they had 168.254 or whatever u
Ips

#19 OFFLINE   xmguy

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 07:07 AM

You shouldn't have static Ip address try just dynamic, no address reservation/static then unplug your bb deca and restart your router leaving the broadband deca unplugged, then plug it back in, now go push the red button on each receiver and you shouldn't have a problem anymore. Something is really weird with mine right now

What kind of router are you using might I ask?

Tonight mine all gained an up after I plugged my broadband deca back After i had reset them all and they had 168.254 or whatever u
Ips


I have a Linksys WRT150N. With DD-WRT Custom firmware. :)

1 HR44, 2 HR24s, SWiM 16, SL3 LNB, (CCK) Broadband DECA. DirecTV Subscriber since 2008.


#20 OFFLINE   Rtm

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:16 AM

I have a Linksys WRT150N. With DD-WRT Custom firmware. :)


Apple Time Capsule here

#21 OFFLINE   KarenRichmond

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 08:42 AM

This is going to be long so apologizes but wanted to get the whole saga out there!

We have had Whole Home for over 2 years now. Two weeks ago one of our boxes suddenly started having issues "communicating with dish." It would happen, reset and then be ok. After calling and talking to Tech support twice they set up for someone to come out since the tests showed dish out of alignment. This was only happening on one of the DVRs.

The tech came out Monday of last week. He did several things and we wonder whether it was all needed or not. This included realignment, changed multiswitch in attic, changed connectors, and changed the splitter in the room with the DVR that was having issues (we have 2 boxes in that room hooked up to 2 TVs). Upon putting everything back up the DVR in the Master bedroom was not on the network. He fixed this, things seemed good and he left after about 2.5 hours. This would be the start of 2 weeks of problems!

Later that day we started having all sorts of WH problems with the BR DVR. We would be watching something from it in another room and the BR DVR would drop off the network. DVR in that room was fine when we went to check and would come back. I called back and they came out the next day.

Next day they replaced the Deca in the BR. Said that if it continued they wanted to replace the DVR which I didn't want because there is a lot on it. This measure later in the day/night caused different DVRs to start dropping off while watching recordings.

Next day they put a splitter in (as in above posts) at the PI. At the time things looked ok, but the living room (where the initial problem was) and my son's room on HD channels had horrible reception (pixels, etc) and my son's room couldn't use the WH at all.

Next day out again, splitter out, wanted to start replacing boxes (I didn't thin was an issue since individually all worked fine and recordings played fine) and talked about a 16 multiswitch, although we only use 8 tuners and things were fine until the original service call. Tech said he would get his supervisor on phone and then left while I walked inside to make a call. No return phone call.

Next day, I called again and they set up a new apt for Monday of this week. This tech put a new cinema (name?) on the coax going to the router taking out the old Deca in there (this Tech and his supervisor accompanying him made it clear they did not like Decas). As for my son's room, they replaced his box (just HD, no DVR) with a new one, again to dispose of the Deca in there). Things looked good again until the next day.

The kitchen DVR started having some signal issues, however, until last night (3 days later) the WH seemed good until the same things started happening (i.e. watching something recorded in a different room and messages keep popping up that boxes drop off). The Tech was suppose to come out yesterday but keep putting me off til later until I finally at 6 p.m. told him to wait til today.

Last night my husband pulled up the network coax info as in an above post and all looked fine. And IP addresses looked fine too.

So here is our setup:
HD DVR (HR 22) in Master bedroom
HD DVR (HR 24) in kitchen
HD DVR (HR 22) in Living Room and a standard box in the living room on a separate TV.
HD (H24) in son's room.

Any ideas anyone?

#22 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 09:22 AM

This is going to be long so apologizes but wanted to get the whole saga out there!

So here is our setup:
HD DVR (HR 22) in Master bedroom
HD DVR (HR 24) in kitchen
HD DVR (HR 22) in Living Room and a standard box in the living room on a separate TV.
HD (H24) in son's room.

Any ideas anyone?

Being a visual type, it would sure help to get "a picture" of your system.
You need five posts before you can post one here.

I see two problems:
The SAT signals.
The DECA networking.

You have a H24 & HR24, which means you can test the DECA with each.

On the front panel, pressing the guide & right arrow [both at the same time] will bring up a menu with coax on the left. This menu may take a few tries before it comes up the first time, so keep trying.

When the menu comes up, select coax and it will test and show the loss between receivers/DECAs.

Running this test from both 24s and posting what the screens show would help.

http://www.dbstalk.c...=1&d=1319572165
A.K.A VOS

#23 OFFLINE   KarenRichmond

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 09:48 AM

Being a visual type, it would sure help to get "a picture" of your system.
You need five posts before you can post one here.

I see two problems:
The SAT signals.
The DECA networking.

You have a H24 & HR24, which means you can test the DECA with each.

On the front panel, pressing the guide & right arrow [both at the same time] will bring up a menu with coax on the left. This menu may take a few tries before it comes up the first time, so keep trying.

When the menu comes up, select coax and it will test and show the loss between receivers/DECAs.

Running this test from both 24s and posting what the screens show would help.



Since you said I can't post an actual picture I can just tell you the values I guess.

On HR24 the Phy Levels are -24, N/A (assume this is this box) -25, -23, -22.

On H24 -24, -25, n/a, -26, -29

Edited by KarenRichmond, 03 August 2012 - 09:53 AM.


#24 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 09:59 AM

Since you said I can't post an actual picture I can just tell you the values I guess.

On HR24 the Phy Levels are -24, N/A (assume this is this box) -25, -23, -22.

On H24 -24, -25, n/a, -26, -29

Keep it up and you'll have the five posts needed. :lol:

Those show the losses between your receivers are well within range.

In a way this doesn't help, as it doesn't show the problem.

Your techs not liking DECA suggests they don't understand it well.

Did you happen to look at the "dropped sessions" count at the bottom of the screens?
A.K.A VOS

#25 OFFLINE   KarenRichmond

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 10:28 AM

Yes, it said 0.

Yes, I am closing in on 5 :)





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