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(NEW) DECA connecting and disconnecting at random

whole home

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141 replies to this topic

#101 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 08:42 AM

No I have not tried putting back the old splitter mostly because I am worried about screwing up anything more, but late last night the WH screwed up again (watching in BR a show on Living room DVR). Also at some point the kitchen receiver had its SAT 2 issue again and screwed up a test recording.

Should I insist on the splitter being replaced?

Right now, as a customer, the only thing you should "insist" is that it should be working correctly.

"From the tech's point of view":
Customer says do this because some bozo on the internet says it might be the problem.
It's not going to be received too well, and frankly it wouldn't be by me either.

A way to get around this is to do some testing and get some results that suggest/point to where the problem might be.

Current status:
The CCK is out of the loop, so the router has nothing to do with the problems.
WH is flaky and one receiver is having problems with tuner #2.

A step to try is to swap the kitchen and bedroom receivers.
See what happens.
Does the tuner #2 problem stay in the kitchen, or does it move to the bedroom with the receiver? Or does it not happen?

If it stays in the kitchen, then the cabling and splitter are where the problem is.
If it moves with the receiver, as much as you don't like it, it looks to be the receiver causing it. If this is the case, "maybe" it's causing the WH issues, and pulling the power cord on it might show the other receivers are working fine.

Hard failures, by their nature, are easier to fix than problems that take a day or two to happen.
The more you can do to isolate the problem(s), the easier it will be to fix.
A.K.A VOS

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#102 OFFLINE   KarenRichmond

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:20 AM

Right now, as a customer, the only thing you should "insist" is that it should be working correctly.

"From the tech's point of view":
Customer says do this because some bozo on the internet says it might be the problem.
It's not going to be received too well, and frankly it wouldn't be by me either.

A way to get around this is to do some testing and get some results that suggest/point to where the problem might be.

Current status:
The CCK is out of the loop, so the router has nothing to do with the problems.
WH is flaky and one receiver is having problems with tuner #2.

A step to try is to swap the kitchen and bedroom receivers.
See what happens.
Does the tuner #2 problem stay in the kitchen, or does it move to the bedroom with the receiver? Or does it not happen?

If it stays in the kitchen, then the cabling and splitter are where the problem is.
If it moves with the receiver, as much as you don't like it, it looks to be the receiver causing it. If this is the case, "maybe" it's causing the WH issues, and pulling the power cord on it might show the other receivers are working fine.

Hard failures, by their nature, are easier to fix than problems that take a day or two to happen.
The more you can do to isolate the problem(s), the easier it will be to fix.


As far as telling him what I want him to do, basically without even mentioning this forum I had been leaning towards it being the splitter or the LNB, the 2 things they changed out the first Monday that I questioned being necessary. so me saying hey change the splitter is my idea (confirmed as a possibility on here?).

I don't know about moving the boxes... I don't think I should have to and they should go back to what they did at the beginning to start causing this mess.

BTW after thinking of just how I use the 1-tuner SD DVR, I am thinking of taking it out. I can watch my second NFL game on my laptop this year since it is part of the Max package this year.

#103 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:43 AM

As far as telling him what I want him to do, basically without even mentioning this forum I had been leaning towards it being the splitter or the LNB, the 2 things they changed out the first Monday that I questioned being necessary. so me saying hey change the splitter is my idea (confirmed as a possibility on here?).

I don't know about moving the boxes... I don't think I should have to and they should go back to what they did at the beginning to start causing this mess.

BTW after thinking of just how I use the 1-tuner SD DVR, I am thinking of taking it out. I can watch my second NFL game on my laptop this year since it is part of the Max package this year.

It's clear we're not looking at this from the same point of view.
"I see" your point, and it would make sense if there hadn't been anything wrong before the tech did his work. "It worked before" and now it doesn't, therefore what he did was the problem.
The living room receiver had an error for 771a & dish alignment, right?
These point to a problem at the dish and the LNB.
"Could this new LNB be the cause of the problem with tuner #2?"
It's possible. The SWM test screen doesn't show anything wrong, but that still doesn't rule out a problem with the LNB.
The WH problems started showing up after he changed the LNB and the splitter. The LNB has nothing to do with WH, so you have to rule that out.
The splitter is where all the receivers connect to each other for WH, so it can't be ruled out.

Not taking steps to narrow down where the problem(s) come from, means there is little that can be done through this forum. :shrug:
A.K.A VOS

#104 OFFLINE   KarenRichmond

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:55 AM

It's clear we're not looking at this from the same point of view.
"I see" your point, and it would make sense if there hadn't been anything wrong before the tech did his work. "It worked before" and now it doesn't, therefore what he did was the problem.
The living room receiver had an error for 771a & dish alignment, right?
These point to a problem at the dish and the LNB.
"Could this new LNB be the cause of the problem with tuner #2?"
It's possible. The SWM test screen doesn't show anything wrong, but that still doesn't rule out a problem with the LNB.
The WH problems started showing up after he changed the LNB and the splitter. The LNB has nothing to do with WH, so you have to rule that out.
The splitter is where all the receivers connect to each other for WH, so it can't be ruled out.

Not taking steps to narrow down where the problem(s) come from, means there is little that can be done through this forum. :shrug:

'


I disagree, we're looking at it the same. I have gone through quite a bit to test this when in reality the people I pay this service for should be doing more on their end. I have even turned to asking others (this forum) for help when, in fact, the technicians should have done so.

And I likely will end up switching the boxes to try to prove something yet again.

#105 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 10:13 AM

'
I disagree, we're looking at it the same. I have gone through quite a bit to test this when in reality the people I pay this service for should be doing more on their end. I have even turned to asking others (this forum) for help when, in fact, the technicians should have done so.

And I likely will end up switching the boxes to try to prove something yet again.

We do agree that you shouldn't be needing to do this and that DirecTV should be.
I came to this forum, like others, because I had problems and was looking for help.
Along the way, I've learned/shared a lot of knowledge and try to pass it on.
When I have someone out on a service call, I ask what they did and try to find out why they did it. It's just my nature to want to know.
If the problem isn't fixed, I either fix it myself, or get them back out and start taking charge of what's being done, so it gets fixed.
A.K.A VOS

#106 OFFLINE   KarenRichmond

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 10:34 AM

We do agree that you shouldn't be needing to do this and that DirecTV should be.
I came to this forum, like others, because I had problems and was looking for help.
Along the way, I've learned/shared a lot of knowledge and try to pass it on.
When I have someone out on a service call, I ask what they did and try to find out why they did it. It's just my nature to want to know.
If the problem isn't fixed, I either fix it myself, or get them back out and start taking charge of what's being done, so it gets fixed.


Question before typing in these numbers for you

Why when the SD box is off do we not see a 0 pop up somewhere?

Here's the numbers with the boxes switched from Kitchen and MR BR

MR BR (former kitchen)

tuner 1
97 100 98 98 96 97 99 98
100 N/A

tuner 2
100 100 100 100 98 100 100 100
100 N/A

Kitchen (former MR BR)

same on both tuners

100 100 100 100 99 100 100 100
100 n/a

Living Room

same on both tuners

100 100 100 100 99 100 100 100
100 n/a

Son

100 100 100 100 98 100 100 100
100 n/a

living extra (SD)

100 100 100 98 98 100 100 99
99 n/a

#107 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 10:49 AM

Question before typing in these numbers for you

Why when the SD box is off do we not see a 0 pop up somewhere?

Because it works the other way.
Why you needed to have every receiver on the same screen was to "get rid of" the zeros.
You can see which channel(s) get used by which receiver, when you're back where these numbers came, and then you go to another receiver and have it exit the menu. When you come back to the first receiver, still on the screen, you'll see one or two zeros show. These are the channels being used by the one that exited the setup menu. Move to another receiver and have it exit the menu, and go back to the first still on the screen. You'll now see another one or two zeros and these are the channels the receiver that just exited the menu are using.

"Zero" comes from the receiver trying to read the channel, not being able to because the SWiM has assigned it to another receiver.


BTW the numbers are good, so you'll just have to wait and see if tuner #2 has a problem or not.
A.K.A VOS

#108 OFFLINE   KarenRichmond

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 10:55 AM

Because it works the other way.
Why you needed to have every receiver on the same screen was to "get rid of" the zeros.
You can see which channel(s) get used by which receiver, when you're back where these numbers came, and then you go to another receiver and have it exit the menu. When you come back to the first receiver, still on the screen, you'll see one or two zeros show. These are the channels being used by the one that exited the setup menu. Move to another receiver and have it exit the menu, and go back to the first still on the screen. You'll now see another one or two zeros and these are the channels the receiver that just exited the menu are using.

"Zero" comes from the receiver trying to read the channel, not being able to because the SWiM has assigned it to another receiver.


BTW the numbers are good, so you'll just have to wait and see if tuner #2 has a problem or not.


The numbers are the same as yesterday when you said there was a problem so I am lost now

#109 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 11:09 AM

The numbers are the same as yesterday when you said there was a problem so I am lost now

What this is showing is the receiver and the SWiM aren't showing any problems with the feed.

Yes, they're the same and still don't show a problem.

Since you're now left with waiting and seeing what's going to happen, I'd start everything out with a full system rebooting.
The CCK isn't the problem, so it's time it can be connected again.

To do a full system reboot:
Pull the power cords on all the receivers, the CCK, and the SWiM PI.

After a couple of mins:

  • power up the PI
  • next power up the CCK
  • give a mins or two and go to the "problem child" receiver and power it up.
  • After it's come up completely, move on to the next receiver and do the same.
  • Power up the single tuner R16 last.
With a "fresh start" track all problems as they happen.
A.K.A VOS

#110 OFFLINE   KarenRichmond

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 11:13 AM

Again, without reading everything again, I thought doing that and posting the numbers had resulted in saying the receiver (former kitchen) was a problem. So now I feel like I have lost 2 DVRs--don't trust former kitchen, now worried about former BR in kitchen because it is in the kitchen. Why are the numbers lower on that box no matter what room it is in?

#111 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 11:36 AM

Again, without reading everything again, I thought doing that and posting the numbers had resulted in saying the receiver (former kitchen) was a problem. So now I feel like I have lost 2 DVRs--don't trust former kitchen, now worried about former BR in kitchen because it is in the kitchen. Why are the numbers lower on that box no matter what room it is in?

The 4 points fall within normal variations of the hardware. It's just the nature of what is used.
If the variation was 10, then it would be excessive.

The reference to the kitchen receiver being the problem, was because there were no indications that the signal to it showed any signs of a problem.
If it has a problem with #2 tuner and recordings, now that it's been moved, it points to the receiver as the cause and away from any of the wiring to the kitchen.
Should the "new" kitchen receiver have the problem, "then" both DVRs can't have the same problem and it points to the wiring to the kitchen as the problem.

So now I feel like I have lost 2 DVRs-

You shouldn't. You're testing to see which "one" will show a problem.
A.K.A VOS

#112 OFFLINE   KarenRichmond

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 11:38 AM

The 4 points fall within normal variations of the hardware. It's just the nature of what is used.
If the variation was 10, then it would be excessive.

The reference to the kitchen receiver being the problem, was because there were no indications that the signal to it showed any signs of a problem.
If it has a problem with #2 tuner and recordings, now that it's been moved, it points to the receiver as the cause and away from any of the wiring to the kitchen.
Should the "new" kitchen receiver have the problem, "then" both DVRs can't have the same problem and it points to the wiring to the kitchen as the problem.

You shouldn't. You're testing to see which "one" will show a problem.


I meant that I have lost them because I now can't be sure either will record correctly.

#113 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 11:45 AM

I meant that I have lost them because I now can't be sure either will record correctly.

Yes, that's the only way to find out. Both won't fail, but one might, which is the point of the test, and you had one failing before, which is why you're doing the test.
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#114 OFFLINE   KarenRichmond

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 06:52 PM

Yes, that's the only way to find out. Both won't fail, but one might, which is the point of the test, and you had one failing before, which is why you're doing the test.


Well after leaving the BR DVR just on (former Kitchen) I went in to check and found it froze, looking for SAT2, but interestingly we were watching something recorded on it in another room.....so I would take from this that the receiver issue does not cause problem with WH.

Have it on still and will see what it does over the next 12 hours.

#115 OFFLINE   wallfishman

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 07:54 PM

Well after leaving the BR DVR just on (former Kitchen) I went in to check and found it froze, looking for SAT2, but interestingly we were watching something recorded on it in another room.....so I would take from this that the receiver issue does not cause problem with WH.

Have it on still and will see what it does over the next 12 hours.



reading thru all this these things i would try as a tech in this order.

replace splitter. visually inspect each fittings at splitter, look for sucked out fittings and look for braid touching the stinger fittings.

I would look at the kitchen line. If its a wallplate take that apart put in new barrel and change fittings. trace that line make sure theres no other junk connectors or barrels in line.

I would look at moving power inserter to its own line. not behind an hddvr. this isnt the problem its just what i try to do with mrv

Edited by wallfishman, 05 August 2012 - 07:59 PM.


#116 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 07:59 PM

Well after leaving the BR DVR just on (former Kitchen) I went in to check and found it froze, looking for SAT2, but interestingly we were watching something recorded on it in another room.....so I would take from this that the receiver issue does not cause problem with WH.

Have it on still and will see what it does over the next 12 hours.


reading thru all this these things i would try as a tech in this order.

replace splitter. visually inspect each fittings at splitter, look for sucked out fittings and look for braid touching the stinger fittings.

I would look at the kitchen line. If its a wallplate take that apart put in new barrel and change fittings. trace that line make sure theres no other junk connectors or barrels in line.

I would look at moving power inserter to its own line. not behind an hddvr.

Would seem the problem receiver was moved to another location and repeated having the same problem, so it doesn't look like a wiring problem to the kitchen, right now, but the receiver that was moved.
A.K.A VOS

#117 OFFLINE   wallfishman

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 08:19 PM

i misread that, i thought the problem stayed with the kitchen.....

well that changes everything !!!

#118 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 08:24 PM

i misread that, i thought the problem stayed with the kitchen.....

well that changes everything !!!

But your ideas of things to do about the wiring, were right on, should that run turn out to be a problem. ;)
A.K.A VOS

#119 OFFLINE   KarenRichmond

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 08:34 PM

So why were we able to continue to watch the show recorded on the receiver searching for SAT 2 in another room?

#120 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:41 PM

So why were we able to continue to watch the show recorded on the receiver searching for SAT 2 in another room?

The receiver's hard drive was feeding the recording over the network, so the receiver hadn't locked up completely.
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#121 OFFLINE   KarenRichmond

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:03 PM

As an update.... texted Tech on Sunday and Monday about issues. Yesterday around 5 pm he texted me he would be out this afternoon...as of 3 pm no show yet. Had a WH issue again yesterday, nothing with the SAT2 since Sunday. I had told him I wanted the splitter replaced. He wants to test electrical outlets. If he ever shows we'll see what happens

#122 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 03:37 PM

Why aren't you going through DIRECTV to get this scheduled? Is this a private tech you're paying?

#123 OFFLINE   KarenRichmond

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 08:02 AM

Why aren't you going through DIRECTV to get this scheduled? Is this a private tech you're paying?


This is through DirecTV (or should I say who DirecTV contracts out to do their work). Last Monday when the Tech and his supervisor came out (since 3 different ones had already been out the week before) the supervisor gave me his cell number so I could get him back out if that didn't fix it, which it didn't. Friday he said to text him over the weekend so he could come out Monday if needed. I did and then he didn't say a word back to me until around 5 Monday when he said it would have to be Tuesday (yesterday), then at noon yesterday he said he would be here about 2. At 4 I texted and he replied he would be out. At 5:45 I had to tell him I had to leave for my granddaughter's gymnastics.

#124 OFFLINE   dielray

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 09:22 AM

I've read through the topic, but there is a lot to go through so sorry if I missed something.

Karen:
I saw that you posted Phy Levels earlier, but did not see the Phy Rate Mesh posted. Could you post a picture of it? To get to it press Right + Guide on one of the 24s. Go to coax, and then Phy Rate Mesh. It will be an array of 3 digit numbers.

The signal problem moved with the kitchen receiver to the new room, correct?

This could point to a problem with the receiver, or to a problem between the Dish and splitter. Basically the dish breaks the cable down to 8 parts(channels) and gives each receiver a part for each tuner it has active. It has been my experience that unplugging a receiver with the SWM PI plugged in has maintained the channel assignment.

To figure out if it is the receiver or not we need to do the following:
1) Enable double play on the problem receiver. Make sure each tuner is on an HD channel.
2) Bring every other receiver to the signal meter screen looking at SWM.
3) Note where the 2 zeros are. Those are the channels assigned to the problem receiver.
4) Unplug each receiver, as well as the SWM PI. Leave unplugged for a minute.
5) Plug the PI in.
6) Here we are going to manually assign the SWM channels. We want to make sure the problem receiver is set to a different assignment. The SWM assigns channels from lowest to highest, starting at channel 2. DVRs may not grab their 2nd tuner until needed. If 2 and 3 were not 0s plug the problem receiver in first and wait for it to completely boot up. Enable double play. If 2 or 3 were 0s and 4 & 5 were not, plug a different receiver in first, wait for it to boot up completely and enable double play. Then do the same for the problem receiver.
7) Plug in the rest of the receivers.

If the problem stays with the receiver, it is likely the receiver. If it moves to a different receiver, it is likely anything from the ODU to the Splitter.
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My thoughts and opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of DirecTV, my HSP, or anyone else.

#125 OFFLINE   KarenRichmond

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 04:31 PM

I haven't tried your 7 steps yet, but here is the Phy Rate Mesh

NDS 0 1 2 3
0 238 245 248 241
1 246 231 247 232
2 246 252 235 234
3 253 249 245 243

and yes when we moved the kitchen receiver to the bedroom we saw the issue again, but the bedroom had not had that issue so it seemed receiver related. We have, however, seen the whole home problem since moving the receivers around.





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