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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Save me a call to DTV -- do they still want HR20s back?


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135 replies to this topic

#51 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 02:11 PM

Earlier on in my career, those of us registered on recipient lists for specifications and standards, received those in hard copies, and received the periodic updates in hard copies as well, containing just the revised pages, which we manually replaced in the binders we kept. The number of specs I was required to maintain, necessitated nearly an hour/week just for the task of replacing pages. Obviously a huge logistical nightmare and a PIA, for the responsible government agency and for the users... but the best system available at the time.

Fast forward to the present... all of this is done electronically. No more binders... no more paper. If I need the latest spec, I logon and review it online.

DirecTV does not have to mail out 20M new contracts/revisions for any/every policy change to their customers. All they have to do is setup a dedicated site that BOTH their CSR's as well as customers have access to, and are told is the single/official authority for ALL policies, superceding previous policies. The CSR is referring to the same source that the customer is. The only reason to contact a CSR would be for processes that require a CSR, not to engage policy info roulette.

Regarding receiver recovery, DirecTV can list each model and the specific method of deactivation/return required, even with a button to initiate the applicable recovery kit to be sent to the customer.

I've suggested this (general to policy) to DirecTV in the past... however unless Mike White was answering the phone, never to anyone who could do anything about it... or even knew who to pass the suggestion along to. Occurs to me that some of the mods/subs might be on a first name basis with someone at DirecTV that could?


The only companies I know that have a system like this are companies that charge for support, Apple, Microsoft, Cisco just to name a couple. With those products you pay for support which helps maintain this.

The nature of changes that happen in a day would make this a logisitical nightmare besides the fact that it's completely un necessary. Shipping costs money and allowing people to just request something would end up being a huge overhead increase because people change their minds all the time. Some people get upset that it takes a week to get a recovery kit shipped but how many times have people changed their mind and called in a week to get that receiver reactivated. However once the lables are paid for that's a cost.

What you suggest is just a huge cost increase with very little benefit. How many people would look I bet less than 10000 people would really care and I'm betting out of those 10000 people most would just be looking at it because they want to justify why they think they're getting screwed.

Look at the discussion over something as simple as "do not return" is. This isn't rocket science you just don't trust the company. If you don't then don't do business with them. I've canceled accounts and gone to places because I didn't trust the company anymore.

Bottom line it's not worth it for the little impact it would have and individual consumer's as a majority refuse to pay additional for customer support.

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#52 OFFLINE   Michael H..

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 03:06 PM

The only companies I know that have a system like this are companies that charge for support, Apple, Microsoft, Cisco just to name a couple. With those products you pay for support which helps maintain this.

The nature of changes that happen in a day would make this a logisitical nightmare besides the fact that it's completely un necessary. Shipping costs money and allowing people to just request something would end up being a huge overhead increase because people change their minds all the time. Some people get upset that it takes a week to get a recovery kit shipped but how many times have people changed their mind and called in a week to get that receiver reactivated. However once the lables are paid for that's a cost.

What you suggest is just a huge cost increase with very little benefit. How many people would look I bet less than 10000 people would really care and I'm betting out of those 10000 people most would just be looking at it because they want to justify why they think they're getting screwed.

Look at the discussion over something as simple as "do not return" is. This isn't rocket science you just don't trust the company. If you don't then don't do business with them. I've canceled accounts and gone to places because I didn't trust the company anymore.

Bottom line it's not worth it for the little impact it would have and individual consumer's as a majority refuse to pay additional for customer support.


We'll have to agree to disagree.

What I suggest is not added effort on the part of DirecTV.
Changes to policy are going to be internally documented in some form regardless... I'm recommending that they do it just once, and make it available for everyone, so that their CSR's as well as the customers are literally are on the same page.

As for customers changing their minds, this is independent of ordering a return kit.
DirecTV is already sending these out, and people are changing their minds... I assume that DirecTV accounts for the $6 monthly additional receiver fee put back on compensates the cost of shipping materials... if not, DirecTV could spell out in the "online policy" that a recovery kit is sent out for each receiver once at no cost to the customer, meaning they hold onto it until they do return the receiver or pay to send out an additional kit if one is requested at that later date... I don't believe DirecTV would.

I don't know about the "nature of changes that happen in a day", but this is an argument for adopting a better system, not maintaining the present one... if they're as extensive as you suggest, I'm not surprised that the CSR's cannot locate and provide consistent information.

I don't know how many people would look at the site, and what would individually motivate each of them. I would like to think that they would search the site to get answers, much as they do with DBSTalk, but would be assured that it was the definitive source regarding DirecTV policy, because DirecTV would say that it was.

As for whether "I just don't trust the company"... if you mean that I am not certain that the information I receive from a phone CSR is 100% reliable and accurate, then you are correct. I do not believe that the wrong information is the result of willful deceit, rather I believe that it is confusion over policy changes and where to get the latest information. This is my impression of not only DirecTV, but virtually every company I deal/dealt with... just an aspect of doing business and never a source of consternation because I have planned risks/contingencies so I've never experienced any major (or minor) consequences. If you meant something else, you're not qualified to make any conclusions regarding me.

There is no additional cost for customer support, beyond what DirecTV already supports, and the system improvement may lessen/reduce policy related call support. I believe that a system change would help, not burden DirecTV, as well as its customers.

#53 OFFLINE   wahooq

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 05:03 PM

I asked that question and got a qualified "yes". I think you'd have to return the original access card when deactivating and when reactivating the 20, buy a new one for $20.

This is just gonna turn into a nightmare. I think Michael Hilley and unixguru are correct about everything they posted. This is another case of poor planning on D*'s part. If D* just had someone who could think of worst case scenarios and plan for them before doing something major, this could all be avoided.

Rich


Jesus people its no different than anything thats ever been done before ....just including a different model
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#54 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 07:44 AM

Jesus people its no different than anything thats ever been done before ....just including a different model


"No different than anything that's ever been done before". Yup, that's why I wrote that. Just about every time D* makes a major change it causes a "nightmare" for customers and CSRs. DLBs, the HD UI and on and on. Better management and better training would not let this happen time after time.

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#55 OFFLINE   unixguru

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:19 PM

By terminating the lease they would be transfering rights to the customer. This means the receiver could be sold and put back into circulation. They don't want these in circulation anymore therefor they will not terminate the lease agreement. They will just tell you that they do not want the receiver returned. This is public knowledge available to all employees not some hidden list. So if you don't want to trust them that's on you.


Ahhh... So the lease isn't terminated - ever. DTV won't transfer rights to something they consider worthless and won't take back. But customer is suppose to dispose of it. Sigh.

Why in the world is this "put back into circulation" an issue for DTV??? The damn box has it's own unique code and just like the access card it should be marked as permanently unusable in DTV's systems. So how the heck is anyone going to put it back into circulation?????

This just continues to highlight how totally clueless DTV management is. I guess they regularly lease a car for 15 years and then at the end of that time the leasing company still owns it but, ;);), customer should dispose of it.

You started a whole other thread on this with the same issue. You don't feel it's right for people to get discounts and you want everyone to be equial and don't want to trust them. These are your issues not DIRECTV's. Obviouslly the majority agree that it's fine due to their continued growth and success each year.


Please stop the jedi-mind-trick management deflection crap. Discounts are a problem independent of anything else (just ask the many customers who don't get them). Leases and disconnects are a separate and much bigger problem. Since you have a hangup with the smaller part of my other thread - just ignore 5% of the content rather than use it to deflect from everything else.

#56 OFFLINE   unixguru

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:22 PM

Jesus people its no different than anything thats ever been done before ....just including a different model


Are you serious????!!!

This is the first time leased hardware is no longer being recovered.

I've been with D* since 1995 and I'm pretty certain I'm not wrong about that.

#57 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:25 PM

Are you serious????!!!

This is the first time leased hardware is no longer being recovered.

I've been with D* since 1995 and I'm pretty certain I'm not wrong about that.


I'd think the H20, at least the -600 wold have been in this state, maybe the R22. But there are a lot more HR20s.

#58 OFFLINE   wahooq

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:50 PM

Are you serious????!!!

This is the first time leased hardware is no longer being recovered.

I've been with D* since 1995 and I'm pretty certain I'm not wrong about that.


Poppycock!!! Seriously I can name probably a dozen models that are DNR and could still be out there as leased. One has nothing to do with the other.
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#59 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 07:28 AM

Poppycock!!! Seriously I can name probably a dozen models that are DNR and could still be out there as leased. One has nothing to do with the other.


Gotta agree with you there. I recently dug out an old TiVo and an R10 SD DVR and found out that, altho they replaced owned TiVos, they were listed as leased. Called retention and found out that "someone made a mistake" back in 2006 and relisted the DVRs as leased. Got an email stating that they were owned and not recoverable. Threw them out. So, yeah, there are leased DNRs out there, but how many are truly leased or were listed as leased on a whim?

D* doesn't have software that tracks their inventory, I guess, or this wouldn't have happened.

Rich

#60 OFFLINE   wahooq

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 11:20 AM

I was just excited to be able to use the word "Poppycock"..hahahaha
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#61 OFFLINE   wilbur_the_goose

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 11:24 AM

So what's the answer - do they want HR20's back?

#62 OFFLINE   wahooq

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 12:24 PM

No sir
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#63 OFFLINE   skinnyJM

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 06:23 PM

Poppycock!!! Seriously I can name probably a dozen models that are DNR and could still be out there as leased. One has nothing to do with the other.


Got a kick out of seeing "Poppycock!" also.

Are you allowed to list the DNR models here? Just curious as to which ones they are.

DIRECTV since April 2000.


#64 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 08:17 PM

The problem is that there are times when a model would be wanted and when it wouldn't depending on the scenario so posting a list could potentially add more confusion. So it's easier to just get the information at the time of disconnecting the receiver.

#65 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 08:22 PM

The problem is that there are times when a model would be wanted and when it wouldn't depending on the scenario so posting a list could potentially add more confusion. So it's easier to just get the information at the time of disconnecting the receiver.


So one can go on the last if DirecTV has a bunch in stock, then go off the list when they need more?

#66 OFFLINE   wahooq

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 08:40 PM

No, what Shades is saying is that some receivers would be recoverable say if being upgraded, but not if being replaced for tech issues.
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#67 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 08:52 PM

No, what Shades is saying is that some receivers would be recoverable say if being upgraded, but not if being replaced for tech issues.


Got it. Thanks for clarifying.

#68 OFFLINE   augisdad

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 09:45 AM

So, does that mean we can open them up? Mine has been making a screeching sound occasionally.
HR20-100 since 2008 w/27" Sony SDTV
HR34 since 4/3/2012 w/47" Mitsubishi HDTV
HMC since 4/3/2012

#69 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 10:25 AM

So, does that mean we can open them up? Mine has been making a screeching sound occasionally.


Yup. Screeching sound? Bad HDD? Bad fan? Not many moving parts inside. All D* wants from the 20s is the access cards. They'll never know what you do when you open one up.

Rich

#70 OFFLINE   augisdad

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 11:56 AM

Yeah, those were the only 2 things I could come up with. I'm figuring it's the fan or I'd be having issues playing/recording (and none so far). And if it is the fan, it could be replaced. Still have stuff on there I haven't watched! (plus its a good backup in case something flaky happens on the HR34).
HR20-100 since 2008 w/27" Sony SDTV
HR34 since 4/3/2012 w/47" Mitsubishi HDTV
HMC since 4/3/2012

#71 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 04:44 PM

So, does that mean we can open them up? Mine has been making a screeching sound occasionally.

Until you (personally) get official (we're not talking about some front-line CSR here) notification to the contrary, nothing has changed.

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#72 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 04:50 PM

So it's easier to just get the information at the time of disconnecting the receiver.

It is probably best, but the track record for CSRs getting this right has not been particular stellar; especially where a substantial (and often out-of-the-blue) non-return fee is involved.

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. -- JFK


#73 OFFLINE   raott

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 07:17 AM

Ordered a replacement for my HR20-700 last night. CSR told me a recovery box was coming. We'll see if it really does.

I'll make a second call as a CYA if the recovery box doesn't show.
SONY KDS-55A3000 and a couple of Vizios; SWM16; HR34 NR; HR22 NR; HR20-700 NR; H23-600 NR; R22 NR

#74 OFFLINE   wahooq

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 11:07 AM

Ordered a replacement for my HR20-700 last night. CSR told me a recovery box was coming. We'll see if it really does.

I'll make a second call as a CYA if the recovery box doesn't show.


It wont but CYa definately
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#75 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:57 PM

Ordered a replacement for my HR20-700 last night. CSR told me a recovery box was coming. We'll see if it really does.

I'll make a second call as a CYA if the recovery box doesn't show.


It wont but CYa definately



To clarify replacement receivers, placed as an ERP, would have a return label inside as well as instructions to return the box. You will not have that in there.

If it was done as an upgrade, which it shouldn't have, but then it wouldn't have a label in there as onec you deactivate the receiver they would check to see if it needed to be returned.




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