Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

Adding HR-34 to Complex Setup - Assistance Needed


  • Please log in to reply
90 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   HofstraJet

HofstraJet

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 162 posts
  • LocationCoral Springs, FL
Joined: Mar 06, 2003

Posted 17 July 2012 - 06:45 PM

I currently have several (ok, 12) HR20-100s, HR20-700s, and HR24s around the house all connected to whole home over ethernet. The four feeds from the current dish go to a 16 port multiswitch in the attic (no SWM yet). From there, four lines go to the multiswitch in the home theater which feeds 6 receivers, four lines go to the multiswitch in the master BR which feeds 3 receivers, and the remainder go around the house to other rooms. I am getting an HR34 installed next week and obviously move to SWM. So, I want to confirm what I need for the HR20s to work.

I believe I will need a 16 port switch in the attic again and an 8 port in the home theater. The four existing lines to the MBR can feed the 3 HR20s in there without a switch with SWM.

So for each HR20, what will I need to add and is there a difference between what the -100 and -700 needs?

Should I switch to DECA or stick with hardwire ethernet (been working fine - slight delay when starting or doing trick play on shows recorded on other units - does that exist with DECA as well)?

I think that answers what I need for now. I'm sure I will think of more as I continue to plan the upgrade. Thanks! :)

#2 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 42,158 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 17 July 2012 - 08:21 PM

Might be worth reading up on this: http://forums.solids...ers-in-the-home
A.K.A VOS

#3 OFFLINE   dpeters11

dpeters11

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 14,281 posts
  • LocationCincinnati
Joined: May 30, 2007

Posted 17 July 2012 - 09:00 PM

VOS, does the standard config for the 20-100s the BSF still apply in this type of config?

#4 OFFLINE   carl6

carl6

    Hall Of Fame

  • Moderators
  • 11,664 posts
  • LocationSeattle, WA
Joined: Nov 15, 2005

Posted 17 July 2012 - 09:43 PM

My suggestion would be to go all SWM, and entirely DECA networking. However that is (as you already noted) a complex setup.

You could use a single SWM32 (not intended for home market, but could be used), but would need to tie the DECA portion of the four internal SWM8's together externally (through ethernet). Or you could use two SWM16's and tie them together via ethernet.

In either case, consolidate receivers that have the heaviest MRV use on a single SWM to minimize MRV traffic over ethernet.

#5 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 42,158 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 17 July 2012 - 09:56 PM

VOS, does the standard config for the 20-100s the BSF still apply in this type of config?

The HR20-100 will always require a DECA to be powered off the #2 SAT input, which will require a splitter, but the BSF has always been a variable from where the splitter is placed. If it's on the SWiM/dish side, the SAT #1 needs the BSF, but if the splitter is between the inputs and the DECA, then the BSF isn't needed as the DECA is doing the same function.
A.K.A VOS

#6 OFFLINE   HofstraJet

HofstraJet

    Legend

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 162 posts
  • LocationCoral Springs, FL
Joined: Mar 06, 2003

Posted 17 July 2012 - 11:10 PM

Might be worth reading up on this: http://forums.solids...ers-in-the-home


Wow. That was incredibly helpful. Thanks!!!

Looks easy enough. Here's what I plan on doing:

Attic
Four-way power-passing splitter for each line from dish.
Each splitter:
  • 1 output to attic SWiM 8
  • 1 output to Home Theater SWiM 8
  • 1 output to MBR WB68
  • 1 output terminated

SWiM 8 - feed various DVRs around house and one CCK

MBR
No change (keep WB68 and ethernet)
OR
Three outputs of attic SWiM8 go to MBR DVRs

Thoughts?

Home Theater
SWiM8
  • 1 HR20-100
  • 2 HR20-700s
  • 2 HR24s
  • 1 HR34
  • 1 CCK to home network

Am I missing something?

The task will be getting in touch with the installer before he shows up to ensure he has the necessary equipment on the truck.

Thanks!

EDIT:

Now that I add it up, if I have six lines coming to the Home Theater (I think I have two extra), I could just put a SWiM 16 with CCK in the attic and run each DVR directly off of that and be done with it.

Edited by HofstraJet, 17 July 2012 - 11:16 PM.


#7 OFFLINE   inkahauts

inkahauts

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 17,566 posts
Joined: Nov 13, 2006

Posted 18 July 2012 - 12:23 AM

I'd run all swim now. AS time progresses and you switch out receivers over time, the newer receivers will all be swim with deca built in like the hr24 and hr34, so in the long run, just doing the switch now and getting it over with is easier, since your doing a big upgrade, rather than doing it half way. With as many wires as it sounds like you have running in your home, I would imagine you could easily put two swim16's in the attic and run with it. Plus then you only need to split the dish signal to two swim16s, instead of four as you are purposing now. It actually would likely be less complicated over the long run to do that anyway as well.. And likely easier to trouble shoot if you don't have half the stuff on wb68s and half on swim and so on...

Also, I am a bit confused by some of your numbers of receivers and different places and how your wiring them up. (you make it look like you plan on running 15 tuners off of one swim8 the way its listed in your post, and that's not doable at all) Can you simply name the receivers and their locations one at a time? Also might mention how many wires you have running to each room, and where they currently go to/come from. Might be easier to understand and therefore easier to give you a better idea of what you can do.

Here's one example of what you might want to do. If I am reading your stuff close to correct. From a swim 16 in the attic, you run two lines to the home theater room. Then in the home theater room you would use a two way spliter and send signal to a hr34 and one hr20. Then the other line I'd use a four way spliter to hook up the remaining four dvrs. Simple, clean and efficient.

Edited by inkahauts, 18 July 2012 - 12:30 AM.


#8 OFFLINE   dpeters11

dpeters11

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 14,281 posts
  • LocationCincinnati
Joined: May 30, 2007

Posted 18 July 2012 - 05:15 AM

The HR20-100 will always require a DECA to be powered off the #2 SAT input, which will require a splitter, but the BSF has always been a variable from where the splitter is placed. If it's on the SWiM/dish side, the SAT #1 needs the BSF, but if the splitter is between the inputs and the DECA, then the BSF isn't needed as the DECA is doing the same function.


I thought while both worked, the model with the BSF was the one officially supported by DirecTV.

#9 OFFLINE   LameLefty

LameLefty

    I used to be a rocket scientist

  • Registered
  • 12,181 posts
  • LocationMiddle Tennessee
Joined: Sep 28, 2006

Posted 18 July 2012 - 06:07 AM

Home Theater
SWiM8

  • 1 HR20-100
  • 2 HR20-700s
  • 2 HR24s
  • 1 HR34
  • 1 CCK to home network


Um, you have 15 tuners on this SWiM8. That's not gonna work.

"Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!"
Directv since 1997
Will Work for Beer


#10 OFFLINE   HofstraJet

HofstraJet

    Legend

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 162 posts
  • LocationCoral Springs, FL
Joined: Mar 06, 2003

Posted 18 July 2012 - 06:32 AM

Um, you have 15 tuners on this SWiM8. That's not gonna work.


Oops. I'm still stuck on non-SWM math counting outputs not tuners. :( :bang

OK - let's try this again with the new math. :D

Dish Outputs
Four-way power-passing splitter for each line from dish.
Each splitter:
  • 1 output to attic SWiM 16
  • 1 output to Home Theater SWiM16
  • 1 output to MBR SWiM8
  • 1 output terminated

Attic
SWiM 16 - total 9/16 tuners used
  • 4 HR20-700s in various rooms - 8 tuners
  • 1 CCK - 1 tuner

MBR
SWiM8 - total 7/8 tuners used
  • HR20-100 - 2 tuners
  • HR20-700 - 2 tuners
  • HR21-700 - 2 tuners
  • CCK - 1 tuner

Home Theater
SWiM16 - total 16/16 tuners used
  • 1 HR20-100 - 2 tuners
  • 2 HR20-700s - 4 tuners
  • 2 HR24s - 4 tuners
  • 1 HR34 - 5 tuners
  • 1 CCK to home network - 1 tuner


#11 OFFLINE   LameLefty

LameLefty

    I used to be a rocket scientist

  • Registered
  • 12,181 posts
  • LocationMiddle Tennessee
Joined: Sep 28, 2006

Posted 18 July 2012 - 06:48 AM

Oops. I'm still stuck on non-SWM math counting outputs not tuners. :( :bang

OK - let's try this again with the new math. :D

Dish Outputs
Four-way power-passing splitter for each line from dish.
Each splitter:

  • 1 output to attic SWiM 16
  • 1 output to Home Theater SWiM16
  • 1 output to MBR SWiM8
  • 1 output terminated

Attic
SWiM 16 - total 9/16 tuners used
  • 4 HR20-700s in various rooms - 8 tuners
  • 1 CCK - 1 tuner

MBR
SWiM8 - total 7/8 tuners used
  • HR20-100 - 2 tuners
  • HR20-700 - 2 tuners
  • HR21-700 - 2 tuners
  • CCK - 1 tuner

Home Theater
SWiM16 - total 16/16 tuners used
  • 1 HR20-100 - 2 tuners
  • 2 HR20-700s - 4 tuners
  • 2 HR24s - 4 tuners
  • 1 HR34 - 5 tuners
  • 1 CCK to home network - 1 tuner


That's better - and it will work - but the CCK's don't use a tuner. They are simply a bridge from the coax network to ethernet. So in that case, your first SWiM can be an 8 rather than a 16.

"Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!"
Directv since 1997
Will Work for Beer


#12 OFFLINE   HofstraJet

HofstraJet

    Legend

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 162 posts
  • LocationCoral Springs, FL
Joined: Mar 06, 2003

Posted 18 July 2012 - 06:51 AM

That's better - and it will work - but the CCK's don't use a tuner. They are simply a bridge from the coax network to ethernet. So in that case, your first SWiM can be an 8 rather than a 16.


Great. Thanks!

Just to confirm, even though the CCK uses a port on the SWM splitter, it doesn't count as a tuner? Makes sense now that I think about it, but just want to be sure. And I now see that I can use the HR34 as the CCK for the Home Theater SWM16.

#13 OFFLINE   LameLefty

LameLefty

    I used to be a rocket scientist

  • Registered
  • 12,181 posts
  • LocationMiddle Tennessee
Joined: Sep 28, 2006

Posted 18 July 2012 - 07:33 AM

Just to confirm, even though the CCK uses a port on the SWM splitter, it doesn't count as a tuner? Makes sense now that I think about it, but just want to be sure. And I now see that I can use the HR34 as the CCK for the Home Theater SWM16.


Correct. The CCK just needs to be on the coax network somewhere to bridge it to ethernet at a switch or router. And yes, the HR34 will also act as a bridge to your wider LAN through its ethernet port - unlike an HR24, the 34 can use both coax networking (DECA) and ethernet simultaneously. I am running that way and have been for months without a problem.

"Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!"
Directv since 1997
Will Work for Beer


#14 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 42,158 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 18 July 2012 - 07:46 AM

Great. Thanks!

Just to confirm, even though the CCK uses a port on the SWM splitter, it doesn't count as a tuner? Makes sense now that I think about it, but just want to be sure. And I now see that I can use the HR34 as the CCK for the Home Theater SWM16.

You might want to look here: http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=207005

You may be able to do this with 4 SWM8 and get all of them on the same DECA/coax network.
A.K.A VOS

#15 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 42,158 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 18 July 2012 - 07:57 AM

I thought while both worked, the model with the BSF was the one officially supported by DirecTV.

It may be but has always been one of the stupidest changes I've seen.
Both configurations work the same.
There is no difference other than one needs a BSF and the other doesn't.
A.K.A VOS

#16 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 42,158 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 18 July 2012 - 08:08 AM

Oops. I'm still stuck on non-SWM math counting outputs not tuners. :( :bang

OK - let's try this again with the new math. :D

Dish Outputs
Four-way power-passing splitter for each line from dish.
Each splitter:

  • 1 output to attic SWiM8
  • 1 output to Home Theater SWiM8
  • 1 output to MBR SWiM8
  • 1 output to Home Theater SWiM8

Attic
SWiM8 - total 8 tuners used
  • 4 HR20-700s in various rooms - 8 tuners

MBR
SWiM8 - total 6 tuners used
  • HR20-100 - 2 tuners
  • HR20-700 - 2 tuners
  • HR21-700 - 2 tuners

Home Theater
2-SWiM8 - total 15 tuners used
  • 1 HR20-100 - 2 tuners
  • 2 HR20-700s - 4 tuners
  • 2 HR24s - 4 tuners
  • 1 HR34 - 5 tuners
  • 1 CCK to home network


There's a lot to look at, but this looks like it's worth looking into further.
A.K.A VOS

#17 OFFLINE   HofstraJet

HofstraJet

    Legend

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 162 posts
  • LocationCoral Springs, FL
Joined: Mar 06, 2003

Posted 18 July 2012 - 08:16 AM

Thanks, VOS.

2 questions:

1: What's the advantage of 2 SWM8s in the HT instead of a 16?
2: From what I can tell, the advantage to using the diplexer setup to bridge the SWMs instead of allowing them to be bridged through my home network is that the traffic is kept off of the home network. Is that accurate?

Thanks again.

#18 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 42,158 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 18 July 2012 - 08:29 AM

Thanks, VOS.

2 questions:

1: What's the advantage of 2 SWM8s in the HT instead of a 16?
2: From what I can tell, the advantage to using the diplexer setup to bridge the SWMs instead of allowing them to be bridged through my home network is that the traffic is kept off of the home network. Is that accurate?

Thanks again.


  • might be cost and that if one fails, the other hasn't. Another thing is my SWM8 never got as warm as my SWiM-16, which borders on HOT.
  • The traffic is one and the other is you can run network status testing where the whole network is tested.
I've been a fan of DECA from the early days, so when I can combine everything into one network, it makes troubleshooting easier, as I can use the receiver tests in the H/HR24 [and up] and "see" how everything is running.
A.K.A VOS

#19 OFFLINE   HofstraJet

HofstraJet

    Legend

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 162 posts
  • LocationCoral Springs, FL
Joined: Mar 06, 2003

Posted 18 July 2012 - 08:41 AM

OK. Thanks. Cost isn't an issue as D* is doing this upgrade as part of the HR34 install which requires the SWM "upgrade."

#20 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 42,158 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 18 July 2012 - 08:49 AM

OK. Thanks. Cost isn't an issue as D* is doing this upgrade as part of the HR34 install which requires the SWM "upgrade."

You're going to be "way off the range" with this install and doubt any of my suggestions are going to be even known, let alone understood by them.

You might get 2 SWiM-16s and a couple of CCKs, but that would be the extent of it.
A.K.A VOS

#21 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 42,158 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 18 July 2012 - 08:52 AM

Posted Image

This would be it, with a CCK on each.
A.K.A VOS

#22 OFFLINE   dpeters11

dpeters11

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 14,281 posts
  • LocationCincinnati
Joined: May 30, 2007

Posted 18 July 2012 - 09:20 AM

OK. Thanks. Cost isn't an issue as D* is doing this upgrade as part of the HR34 install which requires the SWM "upgrade."


I honestly would look for an authorized DirecTV installer that has experience with these setups. At that point, it won't be free, but I think it would be beneficial in the long run. Your average tech that does the free installs likely doesn't have much experience with these configs.

#23 OFFLINE   HofstraJet

HofstraJet

    Legend

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 162 posts
  • LocationCoral Springs, FL
Joined: Mar 06, 2003

Posted 18 July 2012 - 09:39 AM

This is why I do these installs/upgrades myself and just basically get the hardware from D*. I currently have the dish feeds split to a WB16 in the Home Theater feeding the local DVRs and a WB16 in the attic feeding the individual BRs and a cascaded WB8 in the MBR. All of the cabling is done as this is not a new install (four cables to MBR, six to home theater, and each BR has two) - all the installer has to do is swap out each switch for a SWM. I have been lucky that recent D* techs have been tolerant of my explaining the setup and then working with me to get the job done right.

Now, I had a thought - is there a distance limit on how far the splitter that feeds the DVRs can be from the switch? Would 75'-100' be OK? If so, 2 SWM16s in the attic would be fine and then the lines currently used for the WB8/WB16 in the home theater/MBR can be used to feed the splitters which I will install locally in each location. Any combination of switches is fine - doesn't matter to me as long as it works and I don't have to pay (I pay D* enough already - wiring is done, so they shouldn't charge for anything extra as all they are doing is replacing existing hardware).

Thanks!

#24 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 42,158 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 18 July 2012 - 09:48 AM

Now, I had a thought - is there a distance limit on how far the splitter that feeds the DVRs can be from the switch? Would 75'-100' be OK?
Thanks!

That isn't going to be a problem.

After they're done, you might add the diplexers and combining "splitter" for this:

http://www.dbstalk.c...=1&d=1342586724

With 100' runs, I don't see a loss issue.
A.K.A VOS

#25 OFFLINE   HofstraJet

HofstraJet

    Legend

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 162 posts
  • LocationCoral Springs, FL
Joined: Mar 06, 2003

Posted 18 July 2012 - 10:14 AM

That looks like a great idea, VOS, now that I have extra cable runs since I can leave the SWM switches in the attic and just have splitters locally. I will do that after the D* guy leaves as he won't have a clue about this part.




Protected By... spam firewall...And...