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Guest Message by DevFuse

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When one SWiM isn't enough


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68 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 10:59 PM

There's a good article about connecting more than one switch/SWiM here: http://forums.solids...ers-in-the-home

One of the more advanced is:
Whole-Home-9501.png

To aid in planning losses and layouts before committing to this, here is a calculator that you can load coax lengths to get an idea of the DECA loss.
This works best with the longest coax connected to the same splitter, since the signal only needs to go through one splitter between the nodes.
Long runs on one splitter do effect the maximum length of other splitter runs.

Attached File  Cloud loss calculator.xls   60KB   314 downloads

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A.K.A VOS

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#2 OFFLINE   RobTabor

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 11:20 PM

Great info, Thanks for sharing :)

#3 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 07:33 AM

My diplexer testing showed that you can combine two SWM8, by using only one output of each and a coax between the two diplexers.
Using this on a SWiM-16 has 5 dB less loss than the internal DECA crossover of the -16.
When you're having very long coax runs, the SWiM levels can be amplified before the diplexer, and bridging two together gives a 5 dB boost to the DECA.
Currently this is the only method to have Whole Home over very long coax runs.

When you need to combine more than two, the 4-way splitter is needed and its loss changes the 5 dB less, to 5 dB more, but lets 3 & 4 be combined.
Combining the RF DECA signals also means the whole network status gets tested by the H/HR-24 [and up] receivers with internal DECA, when running a system test. Should an error be displayed, you can run the advanced DECA testing and narrow down the node path causing it.

You can combine with CCKs, but you then need to run tests on each and can't test the bridging through the router.
A.K.A VOS

#4 OFFLINE   David Ortiz

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 11:12 AM

Yes, thanks for sharing, VOS. Great info! I'm surprised they didn't mention the 16 node limit for the DECA cloud.

#5 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 11:15 AM

Yes, thanks for sharing, VOS. Great info! I'm surprised they didn't mention the 16 node limit for the DECA cloud.

"They" was me, and yes, only this configuration would push the 16 node limit.
A.K.A VOS

#6 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 12:23 PM

This is the approved two SWiM-16 setup:

Posted Image
A.K.A VOS

#7 OFFLINE   ljg1118

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:21 PM

Great article but unless I missed something there are two directv issues that there is no current work around for:

1)Seeing more than 8 DVR's
2)Seeing DVR's on seperate SWiM 16's.

Any help with this is appreciated

#8 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 12:31 PM

Great article but unless I missed something there are two directv issues that there is no current work around for:

1)Seeing more than 8 DVR's
2)Seeing DVR's on seperate SWiM 16's.

Any help with this is appreciated


  • I think it may be 10, but yes the software has yet to support a lot of DVRs.
  • Post 1 combines the SWiM-16s to see those on the other SWiM-16.
  • Two CCKs does the same thing, but bridges through the router.

A.K.A VOS

#9 OFFLINE   ljg1118

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:17 PM

Thanks VOS:

Is there any way to select which 8-10 DVR's are selected/seen?

#10 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:43 PM

Thanks VOS:

Is there any way to select which 8-10 DVR's are selected/seen?

Any DVR connected can select if it's shared or not.
Things seem to only get "flaky" above the limit.

It would be nice if there was an option to select which clients a DVR could be shared with, but there isn't any sign that this will come.
A.K.A VOS

#11 OFFLINE   ljg1118

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:53 PM

Yup, I am over the limit and certain Dvr's can't see certain clients....

#12 OFFLINE   fluffybear

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 02:12 PM

This is the approved two SWiM-16 setup:

Posted Image


Is this actually DirecTV-approved?

When DirecTV came out recently on a service call, The tech said this type of hook-up was not approved and insisted on installing a SWiM Expander.

I realize the SWiM Expander is doing the same exact thing as above (just in smaller neater package) but he would not hear of it and had me speak with a supervisor who said the same thing..

Proud DirecTV customer since July, 1994

My Q3 2014 Set-Up


#13 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 02:19 PM

Is this actually DirecTV-approved?

When DirecTV came out recently on a service call, The tech said this type of hook-up was not approved and insisted on installing a SWiM Expander.

I realize the SWiM Expander is doing the same exact thing as above (just in smaller neater package) but he would not hear of it and had me speak with a supervisor who said the same thing..

Without giving the name of the creator of this doc away, "I will say" it was done with full knowledge and acceptance of DirecTV before publishing.
A.K.A VOS

#14 OFFLINE   lugnutathome

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 02:27 PM

I've had this deployment for several years now. Starting with dual SWM8s, now a 16 and an 8 and likely in the future dual 16s. This setup was as directed by the Sonoradesign engineer and implemented by a local AV specialist house that did such work. This also follows the form used for commercial installs.

At least back then the SWM expander piled the SWMs in a neat stack preventing adequate cooling around both SWM units leading to premature failures. I haven't followed the expanders of current day, that issue may now be moot.

The residential installers may not know what the commercial side standards are nor have they dealt with the heat issues and may be following an old bulletin or hallucination, or whatever.

I would not accept the expander myself.

Don "those SWM units get all hot and bothered on their own" Bolton

Is this actually DirecTV-approved?

When DirecTV came out recently on a service call, The tech said this type of hook-up was not approved and insisted on installing a SWiM Expander.

I realize the SWiM Expander is doing the same exact thing as above (just in smaller neater package) but he would not hear of it and had me speak with a supervisor who said the same thing..


What's a dazzling urbanite like you doing in a rustic setting like this?


#15 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 02:44 PM

I would not accept the expander myself.

Don "those SWM units get all hot and bothered on their own" Bolton

Given how "warm" the SWiM-16s get, neither would I.
A.K.A VOS

#16 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 02:55 PM

The Sonora SWME2 puts the switches on opposite sides of each other. The SWME4 stacks them, but really people aren't stacking SWM8s like they used to, with the SWM16 out there.

Now if you're really hardcore, there's this little commercial bit.

http://www.solidsign...-Chassis-(FMC-6)

If you absolutely, positively, need 48 tuners in your house, accept no substitutions :lol:
Opinions expressed by me are my own and do not necessarily reflect
those of DBSTalk.com, DIRECTV, DISH, The Signal Group, or any other company.

#17 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 03:12 PM

If you absolutely, positively, need 48 tuners in your house, accept no substitutions :lol:


And it can be easily cascaded for future growth :eek2:

#18 OFFLINE   fluffybear

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 03:17 PM

And it can be easily cascaded for future growth :eek2:


and I'm sure there are a few people in this forum who have already done that..

Proud DirecTV customer since July, 1994

My Q3 2014 Set-Up


#19 OFFLINE   Ghengis

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 05:46 PM

VOS,
It thought you could daisy chain SWM16's by going from the 4 legacy ports on the first to the sat in ports on the second, is that correct? or do I absolutely need the splitters?

Dave

#20 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 06:16 PM

VOS,
It thought you could daisy chain SWM16's by going from the 4 legacy ports on the first to the sat in ports on the second, is that correct? or do I absolutely need the splitters?

Dave

After some testing, it was found the loss to the legacy ports was over 10 dB, which puts the second SWiM in a compromising situation for rainfade.

The choices are to balance the loss to both with splitters that may be only 6 dB, or to use an amp between the SWiMs like this:

http://www.dbstalk.c...=1&d=1345248782

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A.K.A VOS




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