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TCM HD


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285 replies to this topic

#181 OFFLINE   MysteryMan

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 10:21 AM

Not really incorrect or correct. Sometimes the director calls for a grainy look and if it's intended then I guess it's okay but other times it simply looks bad.






I got it set on my DVR but I looked in on it and it does look good. I'm pleased with that one. Love Hitch!


There's a two disc DVD of Strangers On a Train that has the preview version and the final release version.

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#182 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 10:28 AM

I have them on BluRay too. The Searchers high definition transfer is stunning.


Very nice indeed...

All my best with your recovery. :)


+1

Grain and noise are both artifacts and both are bad.


That is incorrect...


Not really incorrect or correct. Sometimes the director calls for a grainy look and if it's intended then I guess it's okay but other times it simply looks bad.


No... the statement I quoted above is incorrect.

If fleckrj stated that they do not care for a grainy look, that would be a correct statement.

While budgetary constraints do pop into the picture from time to time, film stocks are picked knowing very well what amount of grain the film will or will not have. In other words, it's almost ALWAYS an intended look...

~Alan

#183 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 10:32 AM

Not really incorrect or correct. Sometimes the director calls for a grainy look and if it's intended then I guess it's okay but other times it simply looks bad.
!


Film has grain. The biggest issue is when they over DNR it, and a lot of the natural texture is removed. You can end up with a waxy look if it's overdone. There's no reason to remove grain, it's part of film.

#184 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 11:19 AM

Film has grain. The biggest issue is when they over DNR it, and a lot of the natural texture is removed. You can end up with a waxy look if it's overdone. There's no reason to remove grain, it's part of film.


Good point. A really good re-mastering of original or restored film takes an artist. Too much grain removal creates excess softness in the whole picture; too little, or too much sharpening of the image, creates an exaggeration of the grain inherent in the original.

Grain, though, was largely a not-wanted side effect of the existing technology, and the best directors and cinematographers knew how to work around it, sometimes using it purposefully to good effect.
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#185 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 11:24 AM

I haven't watch TCM HD a lot, but the few times i turned it on, old movie or not, it looked pretty good. I only saw letter-boxing at the bottom/top of the screen because the movie aired was one that was in 1.35:1 format.
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#186 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 11:42 AM

I haven't watch TCM HD a lot, but the few times i turned it on, old movie or not, it looked pretty good. I only saw letter-boxing at the bottom/top of the screen because the movie aired was one that was in 1.35:1 format.


Typo? 2.35:1?

I have seen some not great PQ on TCM HD but then I looked at the SD channel. Yikes! Some really messy stuff.

Most has been good to very good. Forbidden Planet was very, very good.
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#187 OFFLINE   fleckrj

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 12:01 PM

Very nice indeed...
No... the statement I quoted above is incorrect.

If fleckrj stated that they do not care for a grainy look, that would be a correct statement.

While budgetary constraints do pop into the picture from time to time, film stocks are picked knowing very well what amount of grain the film will or will not have. In other words, it's almost ALWAYS an intended look...

~Alan


That grain is an analog artifact is a correct statement.

Whether it was added intentionally or not depends, in part, on when the movie was made.

Early B&W and early color film (not Technicolor, which was processed from three strips of B&W film, but real color film) had much more grain than modern film does. When movies were made and grainy film was the only thing that was available, I would argue that the artifact was not intended - it was just the best that could have been done with the technology that was available at the time.

Intentionally distorting an image can be an artistic decision (remember the color shifts in "South Pacific"), but in most old movies, grain is there by default - not by intent.

#188 OFFLINE   Dan B

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 12:39 PM

I also noticed that a lot of movies are windowboxed. I can make adjustments with my TV, but it would be nice if they were formatted properly.

The picture quality is a good improvement, although it's definitely a little bit soft.

#189 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 12:49 PM

I also noticed that a lot of movies are windowboxed. I can make adjustments with my TV, but it would be nice if they were formatted properly.

The picture quality is a good improvement, although it's definitely a little bit soft.


They are window boxed so that they are formatted properly. Any other view of those that are that way is massaging the picture away from OAR.

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#190 OFFLINE   Beerstalker

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 12:55 PM

I didn't think anything was windowboxed (black bars on all 4 sides) on TCM-HD? Is he maybe still watching the SD channel?

Older movies shot in 1.33:1 (or lower than 1.78:1) should be shown pillarboxed (black bars on the 2 sides).

Newer movies shot in 2.35:1 (or anything larger than 1.78:1) should be shown letterboxed (black bars on the top and bottom).
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#191 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 12:58 PM

That grain is an analog artifact is a correct statement.


I never commented on that section of your statement.

Whether it was added intentionally or not depends, in part, on when the movie was made.

Early B&W and early color film (not Technicolor, which was processed from three strips of B&W film, but real color film) had much more grain than modern film does. When movies were made and grainy film was the only thing that was available, I would argue that the artifact was not intended - it was just the best that could have been done with the technology that was available at the time.

Intentionally distorting an image can be an artistic decision (remember the color shifts in "South Pacific"), but in most old movies, grain is there by default - not by intent.


If the Director, DP, etc. were to make the same film today, and had more modern film stock to choose from, it's very possible they might choose a film with a finer grain. I'm not arguing that...

However, they made the film when they did, and they had what they had. I'm bad at analogies, but that's almost like someone back in the 60's complaining that they'd love their brand new Corvette, but it doesn't have a six-disc CD changer, keyless entry, and navigation system.

I've seen some examples of Blu-ray in which the time and care was put into the film to clean up the elements of unwanted noise (trash, marks, etc.) and dial down the grain, and the finished product was amazing, and I've seen films in which the picture was completely ruined.

Grain is not a bad thing. It is a PART of the films we love...

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#192 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 01:03 PM

The picture quality is a good improvement, although it's definitely a little bit soft.


The movies are upconverted... hence the softness.

They are window boxed so that they are formatted properly. Any other view of those that are that way is massaging the picture away from OAR.


I didn't think anything was windowboxed (black bars on all 4 sides) on TCM-HD? Is he maybe still watching the SD channel?

Older movies shot in 1.33:1 (or lower than 1.78:1) should be shown pillarboxed (black bars on the 2 sides).

Newer movies shot in 2.35:1 (or anything larger than 1.78:1) should be shown letterboxed (black bars on the top and bottom).


I think I've seen a few movies that had tiny black bars on the side as well as the top on widescreen films, and a few with tiny black bars on the top. I wouldn't refer to these as windowboxed though. I figured it was either small discrepancies in the film sizes, or most likely, TCM allowing a little wiggle room for those with overscan issues.

~Alan

#193 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 01:09 PM

So glad that this finally found it's way into the HD realm.

TCM has been broadcasting on an HD channel since 2009. I'm not sure when they started showing actual HD mastered content but it would surely have been a major improvement even back then.

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#194 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 01:18 PM

TCM has been broadcasting on an HD channel since 2009. I'm not sure when they started showing actual HD mastered content but it would surely have been a major improvement even back then.


Are you saying they are showing HD mastered content? I have yet to find anything that says they do.
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#195 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 01:29 PM

Are you saying they are showing HD mastered content? I have yet to find anything that says they do.


I've had it on pretty consistently for over two weeks now, and I have yet to see anything HD, so I'm thinking that harsh doesn't really follow TCM-HD closely.

EDIT: I realized after Hoosier205's post, that while I think harsh spoke incorrectly, he's technically correct in that the odds are good that whatever sources TCM is using for most of their programming is indeed HD mastered content (many of these films' DVDs were downconverted from HD masters, and we can pretty safely assume that TCM is using a superior source than DVDs).

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Edited by Alan Gordon, 24 July 2012 - 01:44 PM.


#196 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 01:38 PM

TCM has been broadcasting on an HD channel since 2009. I'm not sure when they started showing actual HD mastered content but it would surely have been a major improvement even back then.


TCM does not broadcast any HD mastered content. None. All films presented on TCM HD are up-converts and nothing more.

#197 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 02:02 PM

TCM does not broadcast any HD mastered content. None. All films presented on TCM HD are up-converts and nothing more.


I believe it but have yet to see a statement from TCM that affirms or contradicts that "fact." All I see is postings by people in forums.
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#198 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 02:02 PM

I've had it on pretty consistently for over two weeks now, and I have yet to see anything HD, so I'm thinking that harsh doesn't really follow TCM-HD closely.

EDIT: I realized after Hoosier205's post, that while I think harsh spoke incorrectly, he's technically correct in that the odds are good that whatever sources TCM is using for most of their programming is indeed HD mastered content (many of these films' DVDs were downconverted from HD masters, and we can pretty safely assume that TCM is using a superior source than DVDs).

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You mean they didn't raid the Walmart bargain bin? :)
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#199 OFFLINE   Alan Gordon

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 02:15 PM

I believe it but have yet to see a statement from TCM that affirms or contradicts that "fact." All I see is postings by people in forums.


It's pretty obvious on my TV...

I must admit that "Destination Earth" that I mentioned earlier looked pretty darn close to call for me...

You mean they didn't raid the Walmart bargain bin? :)


Probably not... at least not the movies I've seen...

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#200 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 02:50 PM

I believe it but have yet to see a statement from TCM that affirms or contradicts that "fact." All I see is postings by people in forums.


You need to check AVS then or contact them yourself. They provided a statement.




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