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Need a NYC attorney specializing in DBS/Communications/Directv.


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#1 OFFLINE   direcdt

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 07:58 PM

Hello guys! I have been a Directv customer for over 3 years with great success. Today i had a uninvited knock on my door from my new building management/New landlord. He introduced himself with showing me photographs of DIRECTV dishes installed at multiple apartments including mine. Out of 75 apartments only 6 tenants have dishes with only 4 in operation.. The 4 dishes in operation are installed on the 3-bar adjustable child window safety guards 15" x 23"- 42" causing no structural damage to property. The manager explained to me we the "tenants" are not allowed to have satellite dishes nowhere around the building perimeter including roof/parapet wall. After explaining himself with a few last words i interrupted him and asked him if he knew about "OTARD" told him to wait at my door while i get my paper work "OVER THE AIR RECEPTION DEVICES RULES" and came down with the hammer and introduced him with 22 pages of RULES.. :) I told him i have the right to install a dish on my window no lager than "ONE METER (39.37) Ect. ect! He explained again that the dish needs to come down by next week. I told him the dish WILL not come down next week or the next 40 years.. His remarks were "I will turn the information over to our law firm" I told him go right ahead i will do the same..

Edited by direcdt, 15 August 2012 - 08:38 PM.


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#2 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 08:50 PM

http://www.dbstalk.c...ad.php?t=192544

There are agencies out there that will fight on your behalf.

#3 OFFLINE   markfp

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 08:58 PM

Putting aside the legalities of having a dish, I'd be surprised if the City of New York actually allows one to be mounted on safety guards of a window.

I'm not a lawyer, but that sounds to me like more of an issue than OTARD. You know fire and safety regulations, etc. I live in a much smaller city and here the law state that TV antennas or satellite dishes can't be mounted in such a way that could impede emergency access to any window, outside door or fire escape.

If that's the case in NYC then, it's highly likely that the City's law will trump OTARD.

Good luck.

#4 OFFLINE   direcdt

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:39 PM

Thanks Shades228

1 down! Just sent them an email.
sbcatest.com/otard2012/

#5 OFFLINE   evan_s

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:52 PM

IANAL but off hand I'd say that if your dish is mounted on the outside of a window using the safety bars that you aren't covered by OTARD. OTARD very clearly states that it has to be an area that is an area that you have exclusive access to.

"'Exclusive use' means an area of the property that only you, and persons you permit, may enter and use to the exclusion of other residents. For example, your condominium or apartment may include a balcony, terrace, deck or patio that only you can use, and the rule applies to these areas."

"Q: Does the rule apply to condominiums or apartment buildings if the antenna is installed so that it hangs over or protrudes beyond the balcony railing or patio wall?

A: No. The rule does not prohibit restrictions on antennas installed beyond the balcony or patio of a condominium or apartment unit if such installation is in, on, or over a common area. An antenna that extends out beyond the balcony or patio is usually considered to be in a common area that is not within the scope of the rule. Therefore, the rule does not apply to a condominium or rental apartment unit unless the antenna is installed wholly within the exclusive use area, such as the balcony or patio."

Inside your window is your exclusive use and you can have dish there. Outside your window = common area and OTARD doesn't cover you.

#6 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 11:53 PM

IANAL but off hand I'd say that if your dish is mounted on the outside of a window using the safety bars that you aren't covered by OTARD. OTARD very clearly states that it has to be an area that is an area that you have exclusive access to.

"'Exclusive use' means an area of the property that only you, and persons you permit, may enter and use to the exclusion of other residents. For example, your condominium or apartment may include a balcony, terrace, deck or patio that only you can use, and the rule applies to these areas."

"Q: Does the rule apply to condominiums or apartment buildings if the antenna is installed so that it hangs over or protrudes beyond the balcony railing or patio wall?

A: No. The rule does not prohibit restrictions on antennas installed beyond the balcony or patio of a condominium or apartment unit if such installation is in, on, or over a common area. An antenna that extends out beyond the balcony or patio is usually considered to be in a common area that is not within the scope of the rule. Therefore, the rule does not apply to a condominium or rental apartment unit unless the antenna is installed wholly within the exclusive use area, such as the balcony or patio."

Inside your window is your exclusive use and you can have dish there. Outside your window = common area and OTARD doesn't cover you.


There are many things that may or may not be covered. It's really best not to speculate and just let the powers that be for both sides work it out. If laws were as black and white as people like to say there are on forums lawyers would be out of work quick.

#7 OFFLINE   MysteryMan

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 04:30 AM

There are many things that may or may not be covered. It's really best not to speculate and just let the powers that be for both sides work it out. If laws were as black and white as people like to say there are on forums lawyers would be out of work quick.


Lawyers out of work. Now there's a pleasant thought.

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#8 OFFLINE   trh

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 04:34 AM

Thanks Shades228

1 down! Just sent them an email.
sbcatest.com/otard2012/

SBCA? I'd go right to the source and contact the FCC.

#9 OFFLINE   direcdt

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 10:38 AM

That's exactly what i did yesterday! A Petition has been mailed to the FCC yesterday with the original and 2 copy's and 1 copy mailed to the landlord. Both letters mailed certified mail receipt/return receipt.. The FCC agent told me after explaining my situation! "I have the right to have a satellite dish but not bolted to building surfaces" The female agent asked for my address, phone number and email. The below information was sent to me by email right after the call..

"You are receiving this email in response to your inquiry to the FCC.

Interested parties may file either a Petition for Declaratory Ruling or a Petition for Waiver pursuant to the Commission's Over-the-Air Reception Devices (OTARD).

Petitions for declaratory rulings and waivers must be served on all interested parties.

Under the OTARD Rule, a viewer may install the number of antennas necessary to receive the full array of video programming available for reception in his or her viewing area.


How to file: See below, Question 1.

Rule: 47 CFR, Section 1.4000 (d) and (e)

Web Site(s): wireless.fcc.gov/index.htm?job=rules_and_regulations Rules

fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.] OTARD Information Sheet

fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/consumerdish Fact Sheet

FAQ's
1. How do I file a petition for declaratory ruling and where?
2. What are the requirements for filing a petition for a waiver or declaratory ruling?
3. What are my rights until a decision is made on the declaratory ruling regarding a currently installed dish?
4. Who enforces a declaratory ruling?
5. What is the process for an OTARD dispute after the consumer sends in a petition for ruling?



1. How do I file a petition for declaratory ruling and where?
There is no special form for a petition. You may simply describe the facts, including the specific restriction(s) that you wish to challenge. If possible, include contact information such as telephone numbers for all parties involved, if available, and attach a copy of the restriction(s) and any relevant correspondence. If this is not possible, be sure to include the exact language of the restriction in question with the petition. Parties may petition the Commission for a declaratory ruling under Section 1.2 of the Commission's rules, 47 C.F.R. 1.2, or a court of competent jurisdiction, to determine whether a particular restriction is permissible or prohibited under this rule.

If someone wishes to file either a Petition for Declaratory Ruling or a Petition for Waiver pursuant to the Commission's Over-the-Air Reception Devices Rule (47 CFR 1.4000), they must file an original and two copies of the Petition at the following address:

Office of the Secretary
Federal Communications Commission
445 12th Street, S.W.
Washington, D.C. 20554
Attn: Media Bureau


2. What are the requirements for filing a petition for a waiver or declaratory ruling?
Petitions for declaratory rulings and waivers must be served on all interested parties. If you are a viewer, you must serve a copy of the Petition on the entity seeking to enforce the restriction (i.e., the local government, community association or landlord). If you are a local government, community association or landlord, you must serve a copy of the Petition on the residents in the community who currently have or wish to install antennas that will be affected by the restriction your Petition seeks to maintain.

If a local government seeks a declaratory ruling or a waiver from the Commission, the local government must take steps to afford reasonable constructive notice to residents in its jurisdiction (e.g., by placing a notice in a local newspaper of general circulation)

If a viewer files a petition or lawsuit challenging a local government's ordinance, an association's restriction, or a landlord's lease, the viewer must serve the local government, association or landlord, as appropriate.


3. What are my rights until a decision is made on the declaratory ruling regarding a currently installed dish?
A restriction cannot be enforced while the petition is pending. Unless the restriction being challenged or for which a waiver is sought is necessary for reasons of safety or historic preservation.
There is no specified time frame for a decision on a petition for a declaratory ruling.

4. Who enforces a declaratory ruling?
If the Commission determines that the restriction is valid, you will have a minimum of 21 days to comply with this ruling. If you remove your antenna during this period, in most cases you cannot be fined. However, this 21-day grace period does not apply if the FCC rule does not apply to your installation (for example, if the antenna is installed on a condominium general common element or hanging outside beyond an apartment balcony. If the FCC rule does not apply at all in your case, the 21-day grace period does not apply.

5. What is the process for an OTARD dispute after the consumer sends a petition to the FCC for a ruling?
Once the Petition for a Declaratory Ruling is received at the FCC it is forwarded to the Media Bureau where it is entered onto a tracking chart. Then the petition is reviewed and the Petitioner is contacted. The HOA/landlord will also be contacted by the FCC.
After, reviewed a preliminary determination is made whether or not the OTARD Rule applies to the situation. At that time a rejection or acceptance letter will be sent. This can then lead to an informal negotiation, a formal PN and/or and FCC Order. This complete process can take 1 to 2 years to complete.

For information on the status of your petition, you can contact the Media Bureau at Rosalee.Chiara@fcc.gov or 202-418-0754 or you can also contact Kenneth Lewis at 202-418-2622."



SBCA? I'd go right to the source and contact the FCC.



#10 OFFLINE   direcdt

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 10:48 AM

Employees bashing their own bosses----> "Sentinel Real Estate"

glassdoor.com/Reviews/Sentinel-Real-Estate-Corp-Reviews-E262282.htm

#11 OFFLINE   direcdt

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 11:51 AM

Still looking for a attorney!

#12 OFFLINE   Jon J

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 01:03 PM

Still looking for a attorney!


Earlier evan_s posted this summary of a Q&A that seems to fit your situation:

Inside your window is your exclusive use and you can have dish there. Outside your window = common area and OTARD doesn't cover you.


Based on this, you might consider saving your money.
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#13 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 02:58 PM

Still looking for a attorney!


You'll have better luck contacting some law firms than looking on here.

Earlier evan_s posted this summary of a Q&A that seems to fit your situation:



Based on this, you might consider saving your money.


I can think of many reasons why this would not be accurate and he would be able to have it.

#14 OFFLINE   direcdt

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 03:54 PM

Here is a letter i received on November 2009.. My old landlord of 3 years, now sold to new "maggots" June/2012. The November letter explained the removal of the dish from roof/parapet walls by November 13/2009. Well i did exactly what they wanted; removed my dish from the roof. I then installed the dish on a adjustable child window safety guard on November 15 2009 with no issues and previous owners. The sweet lady from the FCC asked for me to mail them the November letter with petition. FCC should have the letter by Monday 20th.

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#15 OFFLINE   trh

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 04:36 PM

Why hire an attorney at this stage? The FCC is your advocate and when you filed your petition, any steps your landlord may be taking are supposed to be put on hold. Once the FCC gets your letter, they will send a letter to them telling them just that (and also ask them to respond to your allegations).

#16 OFFLINE   banditt76

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 04:59 PM

Still looking for a attorney!


Why do you think you need one? Seems you have plenty of info to defend yourself pretty well. Why waste money on a self-serving lawyer?

Also unless you are mounted on the building itself, I think you have no case. Mounting on bars or anything of the such is bad and I have to agree with the landlord about that needing to come down, or be moved.

#17 OFFLINE   direcdt

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 08:44 PM

Well! Looks like i went "'Exclusive use" I tried looking for a signal hoping directv signal would penetrate through the walls! This should intimidate the cable companies in the near future... :D

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Edited by direcdt, 17 August 2012 - 08:53 PM.


#18 OFFLINE   direcdt

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 08:53 PM

Well! The New York City Building/Code Enforcement Office are puppets. They are run by RICH landlords.. Hiring a lawyer will avoid a large portion of corruption...

Why do you think you need one? Seems you have plenty of info to defend yourself pretty well. Why waste money on a self-serving lawyer?

Also unless you are mounted on the building itself, I think you have no case. Mounting on bars or anything of the such is bad and I have to agree with the landlord about that needing to come down, or be moved.



#19 OFFLINE   studechip

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 09:35 PM

If your dish overhangs any public area like a courtyard or sidewalk, you are SOL.

#20 OFFLINE   raott

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 09:44 PM

Lawyers out of work. Now there's a pleasant thought.


I'd rather see IT guys who lie about what can be done, when it can be done and how much it can be done for, out of work. Just saying:rolleyes:
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#21 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 09:54 PM

I'd rather see IT guys who lie about what can be done, when it can be done and how much it can be done for, out of work. Just saying:rolleyes:


Keep your frustration out of the thread - :backtotop.

#22 OFFLINE   n3ntj

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 03:42 PM

Satellite dishes (nor anything else) should not be installed in areas that prevent safe egress from a building. Other than that, OTARD should apply.

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#23 OFFLINE   csgo

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 04:51 PM

You are overreacting. All that has happened is the landlord verbally warned you... which in most states means nothing. If the landlord does in fact hire a lawyer (unlikely) and the lawyer agrees to pursue the matter (unlikely) then you simply need to send a letter with the OTARD information to that attorney and request a response.

Is the landlord going to spend a few thousand dollars in attorney fees to have you remove your satellite dish? It's possible, but not very reasonable.

Once the attorney reads the OTARD information he/she will at least consider it a grey area and should advise the client of that fact... any good attorney feels the obligation to inform the client that the issue is not simple and may become very expensive.

So unless this landlord really dislikes you there is little reason for them to continue to press the case once they've been informed of reality.

Right now nothing has happened and nothing needs to be done.

#24 OFFLINE   direcdt

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 06:26 PM

Thank you for the advise csgo! Petition/Copy's has been mailed to both parties.

Management company-----> Your item arrived at 7:25 am on August 17, 2012 in NEW YORK, NY 10016. The Postal Service expects to deliver the item on Friday, August 17, 2012. Information, if available, is updated periodically throughout the day. Please check again later.

FCC-----> Your item has left our acceptance facility and is in transit to a sorting facility on August 16, 2012 at 6:19 pm in NEW YORK, NY

You are overreacting. All that has happened is the landlord verbally warned you... which in most states means nothing. If the landlord does in fact hire a lawyer (unlikely) and the lawyer agrees to pursue the matter (unlikely) then you simply need to send a letter with the OTARD information to that attorney and request a response.

Is the landlord going to spend a few thousand dollars in attorney fees to have you remove your satellite dish? It's possible, but not very reasonable.

Once the attorney reads the OTARD information he/she will at least consider it a grey area and should advise the client of that fact... any good attorney feels the obligation to inform the client that the issue is not simple and may become very expensive.

So unless this landlord really dislikes you there is little reason for them to continue to press the case once they've been informed of reality.

Right now nothing has happened and nothing needs to be done.


Edited by direcdt, 18 August 2012 - 06:34 PM.


#25 OFFLINE   direcdt

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:25 AM

Looks like i beat the landlord! :lol:

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