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Guest Message by DevFuse

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PAC 12 Network Added (was For fans of the PAC12, plz request PAC12 Network)


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239 replies to this topic

#81 OFFLINE   fleckrj

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 09:15 AM

Most people don't give a rats rear end about college football. What few who do can go elsewhere and Dish will be fine. You overestimate your influence.


I think you will be run out of Texas for your first statement.

I do agree with your second statement, though. Anyone who really cares about sports left Dish (or never started with Dish) long ago and is now with DirecTV. PAC 12 fans, though are out of luck with either satellite providers. The PAC 12 network was designed for cable and does not translate well to satellite. Dedicating 7 CONUS transponders to one mediocre conference is not going to happen. It is not like the PAC 12 is the SEC (or even the Big 12 or Big 10). ;)

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#82 OFFLINE   inazsully

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 09:28 AM

Lump all of the sports channels into a ad-on Sports Package. Think ESPN would let that fly? UH, NO, But it's a tempting solution to this problem.

#83 OFFLINE   Gloria_Chavez

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 09:43 AM

Dedicating 7 CONUS transponders to one mediocre conference is not going to happen. It is not like the PAC 12 is the SEC (or even the Big 12 or Big 10). ;)


The PAC-10 is by FAR, the most elite sports conference in the US. And Stanford, BY FAR, has the most successful sports program in the country. No school comes close. 18 straight years.

***********************
Stanford Wins 2011-12 Division I Learfield Sports Directors' Cup Standings; Pac-12 Places Four Institutions in Top 10

June 14, 2012

http://www.nacda.com.../061412aaa.html

CLEVELAND - With the final standings set to be released after the baseball College World Series, the winner of the 2011-12 Division I Learfield Sports Directors' Cup Standings has been determined, with Stanford capturing its 18th straight title with 1384.25 total points. The Cardinal placed sixth place in women's track & field, ninth in women's rowing, 17th in softball, 18th in men's track & field and 19th in men's golf. Stanford scored in 25 sports, with the lowest-scoring five women's sports omitted due to the maximum of 10 allowed.
***********************


That said, I do believe that many overrate the importance of college sports, and I'm with Dish and DTV on this one.

When does it end? Pac-10 gets 80 cents, then ESPN comes back and asks for 7.50 a month. Soon, History Channel, which has already publicly compared itself with ESPN, will demand 2 dollars.

And the average monthly bill goes to 140???!!!!

I ask all of you, how much has ESPN's monthly rate gone up over the last 12 years? How does that compare to the median income over the same time period?
Since 1995 the average cable bill has increased 122%, while TV consumption per household just 13%.

http://www.multichan...1_Per_Month.php

http://blog.nielsen....-all-time-high/

#84 OFFLINE   fleckrj

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 10:37 AM

The PAC-10 is by FAR, the most elite sports conference in the US. And Stanford, BY FAR, has the most successful sports program in the country. No school comes close. 18 straight years.


But the only sports that draw enough viewers to support a television network are football and basketball. Since 1998, when the BCS began, 8 of the football champions have been from the SEC, 2 from the Big 12, and one each from the ACC, Big East (although Miami has since moved to the ACC), and Big 10. The lone PAC 12 champion (USC in 2004) was forced to vacate its championship.

During the same time period, 5 of the mens basketball champions have come from the ACC, 4 each from the SEC and Big East, and 1 each from the Big 10 and Big 12. For the women's basketball, 7 of the champions have come from the Big East, 3 each from the SEC and Big 12 (although one of those - Texas A&M - has since joined the SEC), and 1 each from the Big 10 and ACC.

The other sports are nice to have, but they do not pay the bills.

#85 OFFLINE   kick4fun

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 10:45 AM

Most people don't give a rats rear end about college football. What few who do can go elsewhere and Dish will be fine. You overestimate your influence.


You are really naive... All Pac12 teams receive $30 Million a year through tv contracts by ESPN and FX. You don't think people give a rats behind? Seriously, what a dumb thing to say. They don't pay that kind of money unless people are showing a demand.

#86 OFFLINE   Jim5506

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 11:06 AM

Don't get me wrong. I enjoy college and pro football, but honestly, the percentage of the 300,000,000 people in the USA who would pay extra to see all of a specific teams games is less than 1% probably in the 0.1% of the whole population, maybe lower.

I think sports are getting oversaturated and overpriced, we have a bread and circuses situation here.

DirecTV is sucking some air on its contract with the NFL because they over estimated how many rabid fans would fork over hundreds of dollars to watch any and all NFL games. Now they are giving it away to new subs in a hope that a few will get hooked on it and pony up the cash.

Sure, Sunday Ticket is cheaper than actually buying season tickets, but it is just not worth the overall price, in the same way all these conferences and schools instituting their own networks are just trying to milk the cash cow - and guess who the cow is.

There is plenty of football broadcast "free" over the networks for 99% of the population, plus the pay TV like ESPN and the RSNs throw in more football - maybe not "MY GAME" but the most "important" games get carried on the "free" networks and who really wants to see every Big 10 or PAC 12 game, some of those schools just suck at football and they don't "deserve" to be broadcast.

Not to belittle anyone, but who would rush home early to watch Arizona play Iowa? I'm sure their fans are loyal - let a local TV station broadcast the game if there is enough sponsor support and the school can stream the game for those oout of the area, we do not need a national network for this kind of circus.

Support your local high school football team, you get a more honest game there, anyway.
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#87 OFFLINE   RasputinAXP

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 11:33 AM

And somehow these teams think they can make big money by forcing people to watch networks exclusively by and about them.

Ask Texas how that's going with LHN-ESPN.

"Belligerent and numerous."

Sometimes I update the Dish Network FAQ

AT200, Hopper & 360 via HDMI to Onkyo 505 to basement 42" Westy, Hopper via Comp-over-Cat5 to living room 42" Vizio with a Roku 3, Joey to Toshiba 32" LCD with a Logitech Revue. You want fries with that? Pull up to the 2nd window.


#88 OFFLINE   fleckrj

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 11:40 AM

Not to belittle anyone, but who would rush home early to watch Arizona play Iowa? I'm sure their fans are loyal - let a local TV station broadcast the game if there is enough sponsor support and the school can stream the game for those oout of the area, we do not need a national network for this kind of circus.


The one thing the PAC 12 has going for it is that most of the country does not have to rush home early to watch the games :D On the other hand, being able to stay up until the game ends, and then having to get up to go to work on the East Coast might be a problem.

#89 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 11:51 AM

And somehow these teams think they can make big money by forcing people to watch networks exclusively by and about them.

Ask Texas how that's going with LHN-ESPN.


It's going great for Texas, because ESPN is guaranteed to pay them big money. I don't have the numbers right now, but UT is still getting like $50 million.
If you stop responding to them or put them on ignore, then eventually they'll go away.

#90 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 04:21 PM

Well w/out you (or fudpucker) giving me the specific zip code(s) you're using, I can't tell what you're talking about. :confused: :confused:

Try 60601 ... a little city called Chicago. :)

Yes, there are blackouts when you are out of the sports team's home area. That is probably why DirecTV does not include Fox Sports Midwest in their Choice package for Chicago area viewers (the teams moved to CSN Chicago). But there is other content on FS channels - and I'm surprised that the channel is missing.

#91 OFFLINE   inazsully

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 04:33 PM

I don't know it we'll have the Pac-12 Channel on "E" but I do know the college football season starts in earnest this Saturday. I also know that here in Arizona every game being broadcast by FSN Arizona will be carried on Dish Network, in glorious standard definition. What a sick sad joke.

#92 OFFLINE   RasputinAXP

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 06:17 PM

It's going great for Texas, because ESPN is guaranteed to pay them big money. I don't have the numbers right now, but UT is still getting like $50 million.


But in terms of carriage, I mean. Neither D* nor E* have picked them up.

"Belligerent and numerous."

Sometimes I update the Dish Network FAQ

AT200, Hopper & 360 via HDMI to Onkyo 505 to basement 42" Westy, Hopper via Comp-over-Cat5 to living room 42" Vizio with a Roku 3, Joey to Toshiba 32" LCD with a Logitech Revue. You want fries with that? Pull up to the 2nd window.


#93 OFFLINE   fudpucker

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 06:29 PM

Try 60601 ... a little city called Chicago. :)

Yes, there are blackouts when you are out of the sports team's home area. That is probably why DirecTV does not include Fox Sports Midwest in their Choice package for Chicago area viewers (the teams moved to CSN Chicago). But there is other content on FS channels - and I'm surprised that the channel is missing.


For me it is nw Iowa - 51041

#94 OFFLINE   CeeWoo

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 01:57 PM

Don't get me wrong. I enjoy college and pro football, but honestly, the percentage of the 300,000,000 people in the USA who would pay extra to see all of a specific teams games is less than 1% probably in the 0.1% of the whole population, maybe lower..


If we're gonna make up stats, 87.945% of us think you're wrong ;)

#95 OFFLINE   zippyfrog

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 04:54 PM

http://www.mercuryne...v-deal-wont-get

I found the last sentence interesting: "The conference is also in discussions with Dish Network and AT&T U-verse and could make carriage deals before the first kickoff."

I don't know how accurate the statement is, but it is interesting they report that Dish Network is in discussions.

#96 OFFLINE   dishrich

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 05:30 PM

Try 60601 ... a little city called Chicago. :)


YOU had better try it again...because I can 200% guarantee you that DISH, in fact - not only does NOT offer ANY FSN affiliate in the Chicago proper market in their base packages, they do not, nor can they even offer ANY pro-sports on those said FSN (Midwest) affiliates in that same zip code.

When I put in 60601, this is exactly what comes back on their own website:

http://www.dish.com/...channels/local/

Regional and Collegiate Sports Networks are available with America's Top 120 Plus or higher.
Station
Big Ten
CSN Chicago


FYI, FSN Midwest is NOT offered on any cable systems that are generally considered part of the Chicago DMA, since NONE of their pro-sports teams are considered a "local" team in that area.

If you only look at this RSN map on DISH's own website, you can plainly see that FSN Midwest is NOT offered in any of DISH's base packages in the Chicago area - which BTW, matches what DirecTV offers:

http://www.mydish.com/support/rsn-maps

That is probably why DirecTV does not include Fox Sports Midwest in their Choice package for Chicago area viewers (the teams moved to CSN Chicago).


You are mixing up FSN Midwest with FSN Chicago, which NO longer even exists! When the (newly formed) CSN Chicago swallowed ALL the Chicago pro-sports teams, FSN Chicago went out of business, which was in 2006. CSN Chicago replaced FSN Chicago on ALL cable/satellite systems. FSN Chicago & Midwest were always completely separate RSN's - & none of the Chicago sports teams were EVER on FSN Midwest.

http://en.wikipedia....iki/FSN_Chicago


For me it is nw Iowa - 51041


OK fud, so this is what DISH's website shows you get as part of your base pkg:

http://www.dish.com/...channels/local/

Regional and Collegiate Sports Networks are available with America's Top 120 Plus or higher.
Station
Fox Sports Midwest
Fox Sports North
CSN Chicago
Big Ten


OK, so now let's try it on DirecTV's RSN lookup:

http://www.directv.c...assetId=3450006

With any DIRECTV base package (CHOICE or above, or MÁS ULTRA or above):

Comcast SportsNet Chicago HD (Ch. 665) - HD Available
Chicago Blackhawks (HD Available)
Chicago Bulls (HD Available)
Cubs (HD Available)
White Sox (HD Available)

FS North HD (Ch. 668) - HD Available
Brewers (HD Available)
Minnesota Timberwolves (HD Available)
Twins (HD Available)

FS Midwest HD (Ch. 671) - HD Available
Cardinals (HD Available)
Royals (HD Available)
St. Louis Blues (HD Available)


(note that while DirecTV does NOT specifically mention B10 in this lookup, since they do not treat it as an RSN per se...you WOULD get the same coverage of it in your base DTV pkg, as you would in DISH's)

Hmm, looks to me like you are getting exactly the SAME (if not more) RSN coverage in DirecTV's base pkg - as you are with DISH. (actually, you ARE getting more on DirecTV, since ALL their RSN's are HD 24/7) :lol:
Sorry to burst your's (& James's) bubbles - but as I said & stand by with earlier - with few exceptions, as long as you are comparing like for like RSN's...you are going to get the SAME RSN/pro-sports coverages between BOTH DBS providers in their base pkgs that include local RSN(s). (except obviously for any RSN's that a given provider does offer at all!)

Edited by dishrich, 29 August 2012 - 05:49 PM.


#97 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 05:53 PM

YOU had better try it again...because I can 200% guarantee you that DISH, in fact - not only does NOT offer ANY FSN affiliate in the Chicago proper market in their base packages, they do not, nor can they even offer ANY pro-sports on those said FSN (Midwest) affiliates in that same zip code.

Wow ... so much anger. Sorry ... I misread a map.

FYI, FSN Midwest is NOT offered on any cable systems that are generally considered part of the Chicago DMA, since NONE of their pro-sports teams are considered a "local" team in that area.

Try 46320, Hammond Indiana. Unless you're going to claim that being a foot over the state line doesn't count as "Chicago proper" it is firmly in the Chicago television market. :rolleyes:
I don't know what teams would be seen in Hammond on Fox Sports MW ... but I do know that they would be seen on DISH packages starting at $49.99 (full price) and not in DirecTV's "Choice" package. And all the non-blacked out programming would be seen as well.

#98 OFFLINE   dstout

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 07:36 PM

Hammond might be in the Pacer's territory? Their games are on FS Indiana that is a subfeed of FS Midwest.

#99 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 07:47 PM

http://www.mercuryne...v-deal-wont-get

I found the last sentence interesting: "The conference is also in discussions with Dish Network and AT&T U-verse and could make carriage deals before the first kickoff."

I don't know how accurate the statement is, but it is interesting they report that Dish Network is in discussions.


That's very interesting indeed.

With one single sentence we went from Dish isn't talking to PAC-12 at all and DirecTV will have it at launch to instead, DirecTV definitely will not have it in time for launch and Dish might.

Dish might very well be playing PAC-12 and Big Ten against each other... PAC-12 wants to be picked up, and Big Ten wants more money... Dish might be trying to get both at the same rate... which means we could be all or none this weekend.

Not holding my breath, but Dish has done Friday and even Saturday channel uplink/launches before, even though it is rare.

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#100 OFFLINE   dishrich

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 10:07 PM

Try 46320, Hammond Indiana. Unless you're going to claim that being a foot over the state line doesn't count as "Chicago proper" it is firmly in the Chicago television market.


Well, yea...Chicago proper would NOT be in Hammond IN, would it; it would be Hammond IN proper.
So yea, I am saying it's NOT "Chicago" proper, which is why I used that terminology.
The boundary line for everything, (like RSN broadcast boundaries) has to stop somewhere; what WOULD be so unusual that it would be the state line? :confused:
And, RSN boundary lines do NOT always line up with TV DMA boundary lines - & they even vary by individual sport teams WITHIN the same RSN(s).

Hence, that is why I qualified what I said with generally - meaning there ARE always a few exceptions, as I stated (again) here:

with few exceptions, as long as you are comparing like for like RSN's...you are going to get the SAME RSN/pro-sports coverages between BOTH DBS providers in their base pkgs that include local RSN(s).


My main point was - when I was trying to tell fud that (most likely) he was NOT getting any more RSN(s) w/DISH than DirecTV, you then gave me a (Chicago) zip to try to prove otherwise.
Neither that zip nor fud's zip gets you more RSNs on DISH over DTV - which was all I was trying to say. (in case fud wants other options... ;)

I don't know what teams would be seen in Hammond on Fox Sports MW ... but I do know that they would be seen on DISH packages starting at $49.99 (full price) and not in DirecTV's "Choice" package.


And since neither of us knows exactly which sports/teams DISH shows w/out blackouts, it's basically meaningless. Assuming DISH's zip lookup in this case is correct, it's most likely the FSN Indiana sub-feed f/the Indiana Pacers, as dstout suggested. (it sure as hell is NOT the "primary" Midwest/St.Louis feed w/the Cards, etc.) Problem is, I can't find any kind of NBA team coverage maps &/or zip code lookup, so it's hard to tell what exactly (pro-sports) a DISH sub is actually getting on that FSN feed. It also might be because the NBA season has NOT started yet, the RSN lookup table(s) might NOT be updated properly for the new NBA season.

And all the non-blacked out programming would be seen as well.

Which is also pretty meaningless as well...since it's basically a carbon copy of the same programming on CSN Chicago. (we have both here, so it's easy to tell this... ;) )

So I did try some adjacent zips in IN - this one is interesting:
46947; Logansport, IN

DISH is listed the same as your zip code 46320

DTV has the following:

With any DIRECTV base package (CHOICE or above, or MÁS ULTRA or above):

Comcast SportsNet Chicago HD (Ch. 665) - HD Available
Chicago Blackhawks (HD Available)
Cubs (HD Available)
White Sox (HD Available)

FS Midwest HD (Ch. 671) - HD Available (example of varying teams within an RSN)
Indiana Pacers (HD Available)
St. Louis Blues (HD Available)

With the PREMIER or LO MAXIMO package or any DIRECTV base package plus SPORTS Pack, you also get:

FS Cincinnati HD (Ch. 661) - HD Available
Reds (HD Available)


(DISH has no mention whatsoever of FS Cincy)

Edited by dishrich, 29 August 2012 - 10:14 PM.





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