Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo

PAC 12 Network Added (was For fans of the PAC12, plz request PAC12 Network)


  • Please log in to reply
239 replies to this topic

#101 OFFLINE   James Long

James Long

    Ready for Uplink!

  • Super Moderators
  • 39,892 posts
Joined: Apr 17, 2003

Posted 29 August 2012 - 10:28 PM

Well, yea...Chicago proper would NOT be in Hammond IN, would it; it would be Hammond IN proper.
So yea, I am saying it's NOT "Chicago" proper, which is why I used that terminology.

You also said Chicago DMA ... which most certainly includes Hammond, IN. I figured you'd try to redefine and squirm out of it.

The point is, there are places where DISH's $49.99 package includes RSNs that DirecTV does not include. Perhaps not your place ... but your claim made earlier in the thread is false and I thank you for acknowledging that in your post.

Assuming DISH's zip lookup in this case is correct, it's most likely the FSN Indiana sub-feed f/the Indiana Pacers, as dstout suggested. (it sure as hell is NOT the "primary" Midwest/St.Louis feed w/the Cards, etc.)

Perhaps you should learn more about DISH carriage before coming into a DISH forum and spouting off about it? Channel 418 on DISH (channel 412-08 on the Hopper) is FOXMW ... the main FSMidwest feed.

When there is content on FSIndiana (such as a Pacers game) it appears on one of the Alternate channels. DISH does not have permanent separate channels set aside for the subdivisions of the regional FS feeds.

(DISH has no mention whatsoever of FS Cincy)

On DISH, one would find that content on the FSMidwest channel or an Alternate channel (most likely on an alternate channel).

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#102 OFFLINE   dishrich

dishrich

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,541 posts
Joined: Apr 22, 2002

Posted 29 August 2012 - 11:02 PM

Perhaps you should learn more about DISH carriage before coming into a DISH forum and spouting off about it?

Channel 418 on DISH (channel 412-08 on the Hopper) is FOXMW ... the main FSMidwest feed.


Well as a current DISH sub for quite some time...thank you for pointing out something I was well aware of. :rolleyes:

When there is content on FSIndiana (such as a Pacers game) it appears on one of the Alternate channels. DISH does not have permanent separate channels set aside for the subdivisions of the regional FS feeds.


AND as part of that process, if the primary feed on 418 would be showing prog blacked out in a given area - such as a Cardinal game that would NOT be shown in your Hammond, IN zip code 46320, it WOULD be blacked out - per MLB blackout rules. (unless you're planning on telling me that DISH doesn't have to abide by those rules :rolleyes: )

Just in case, here's an MLB blackout map; it's VERY clear that Hammond, IN is NOT in the home broadcast area for any FSN Midwest MLB teams:

http://en.wikipedia....ckout_Areas.png

The point is, when DISH's website says you qualify for FSN Midwest - they do NOT qualify that with which specific "programs" (ie: sports teams) you will see on that said "primary channel". Obviously, it WILL be blacked out in some instances - but you already know (all) this, right? :P

And (again) in this case of zip 46320...for all we know, other than (possibly) the IN Pacers, there's probably NOT much, if any, pro content these particular FSN Midwest subs will actually get from DISH. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one...

On DISH, one would find that content on the FSMidwest channel or an Alternate channel (most likely on an alternate channel).


Since there are actually 2 FSN Ohio feeds, it would not be on the FSN Midwest feed whatsoever.

Edited by dishrich, 29 August 2012 - 11:08 PM.


#103 OFFLINE   James Long

James Long

    Ready for Uplink!

  • Super Moderators
  • 39,892 posts
Joined: Apr 17, 2003

Posted 29 August 2012 - 11:14 PM

Well as a current DISH sub for quite some time...thank you for pointing out something I was well aware of. :rolleyes:

Based on your inaccurate portrayal of the facts it was not obvious. :eek2:
I thought you had left DISH and just had an unfortunate handle from the past. :grin:


Since there are actually 2 FSN Ohio feeds, it would not be on the FSN Midwest feed whatsoever.

As I said:
On DISH, one would find that content on the FSMidwest channel or an Alternate channel (most likely on an alternate channel).

Even without an explicit FS Cincy channel on DISH the content is still available to subscribers via the alternate channels.

#104 OFFLINE   Brubear

Brubear

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 151 posts
Joined: Nov 13, 2008

Posted 30 August 2012 - 10:21 AM

http://espn.go.com/b...-pac-12-network

my comments and opinions are my own and do not suggest endorsement by my employer


#105 OFFLINE   RasputinAXP

RasputinAXP

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 3,135 posts
Joined: Jan 23, 2008

Posted 30 August 2012 - 02:21 PM

Full letter on the PAC 12 site: http://pac-12.com/po...rfan/index.html

"Belligerent and numerous."

Sometimes I update the Dish Network FAQ

AT200, Hopper & 360 via HDMI to Onkyo 505 to basement 42" Westy, Hopper via Comp-over-Cat5 to living room 42" Vizio with a Roku 3, Joey to Toshiba 32" LCD with a Logitech Revue. You want fries with that? Pull up to the 2nd window.


#106 OFFLINE   inazsully

inazsully

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 781 posts
Joined: Oct 03, 2006

Posted 30 August 2012 - 02:35 PM

Dish has an opportunity to look mighty good here. Don't blow it "E".

#107 OFFLINE   sigma1914

sigma1914

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 14,013 posts
  • LocationAllen, TX
Joined: Sep 05, 2006

Posted 30 August 2012 - 02:48 PM

Dish has an opportunity to look mighty good here. Don't blow it "E".


If DirecTV won't add it, you really think Dish would? No chance.
If you stop responding to them or put them on ignore, then eventually they'll go away.

#108 OFFLINE   James Long

James Long

    Ready for Uplink!

  • Super Moderators
  • 39,892 posts
Joined: Apr 17, 2003

Posted 30 August 2012 - 03:15 PM

If DirecTV won't add it, you really think Dish would? No chance.

It all depends on the deal. Personally I believe it is the alternate channels that are squashing the deal.

#109 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

Stewart Vernon

    Excellent Adventurer

  • Moderators
  • 19,691 posts
  • LocationKittrell, NC
Joined: Jan 07, 2005

Posted 30 August 2012 - 03:24 PM

It all depends on the deal. Personally I believe it is the alternate channels that are squashing the deal.


That's what it sounds like to me... Big Ten has one channel + part-time alternates for game only... sounds like PAC-12 wanted a bunch of full-time channels and that ultimately killed the DirecTV deal.

As I said in another thread... the days of DirecTV just giving in are over... they are fighting back now too, and it will be good for everyone!

-- Respect the S.H.I.E.L.D.


#110 OFFLINE   nmetro

nmetro

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 623 posts
Joined: Jul 11, 2006

Posted 30 August 2012 - 04:53 PM

Our local Comcast system picked up the main Big 12 Channel and PAC 12 Rocky Mountain.

PAC 12, unlike BTN, has a national channel. However, they also have a channel for Washington, Oregon, Northern California, Southern California, Arizona and Colorado/Utah. This means, a national carrier like DISH or DirecTV needs to carry all seven PAC 12 channels. They are all 24x7 channels, which means one will fill up most of one HD transponder just with PAC 12 networks. And if they offer SD, that is 14 channels. This is very expensive for satellite space. Either the provider DirecTV or DISH has to make room by dropping channels or they have to add capacity.

BTN, as pointed out above, only has one full time channel, and borrows from the HD "pool" for alternate games. But, it is truly one 24x7 channel; two if you count SD.

PAC 12, I think, created an impossible model for national satellite carriers. Yes, they could use spot beams for the regional channels, but I suspect PAC 12 wants to use satellite to cover all 50 states regardless of where PAC 12 fans live.

#111 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

Stewart Vernon

    Excellent Adventurer

  • Moderators
  • 19,691 posts
  • LocationKittrell, NC
Joined: Jan 07, 2005

Posted 30 August 2012 - 06:56 PM

Yeah, the more I read, the more insane it is... I don't know what the PAC-12 was thinking that they were going to get Dish and DirecTV to dedicate 1 or even 2 transponders just to them... even at "the right price" that wouldn't make sense, and I gather that's what ultimately made it a non-starter with DirecTV... it doesn't sound like they really drilled to price negotiations since they couldn't get past the number of dedicated full-time channels that the PAC-12 wanted.

And people think ESPN is bad!

Hopefully the PAC-12 will re-think this and offer Dish and DirecTV something like the Big Ten offers with 1 national full-time channel + alternate feeds for game-only overlap.

-- Respect the S.H.I.E.L.D.


#112 OFFLINE   WazzuCougs

WazzuCougs

    Cool Member

  • Registered
  • 26 posts
Joined: Aug 09, 2012

Posted 01 September 2012 - 11:21 AM

I've been trying to keep up with the status of the Pac-12 Network on Facebook a little bit. The agreement--albeit a short-term one--with the Big Ten is a good sign. I felt if Dish completely abandoned the Big Ten there would be no way it would be adding the Pac-12. Although keeping the Big Ten also does not guarantee an addition of the Pac-12, it's still a positive sign.

Anyway, this is one of the posts from a CSR I read on Dish's Facebook page today. It's a much different tone than what the CSRs had been posting:

"We understand the importance of college football and see the value in the games the Pac-12 will provide DISH customers. Which is why we are working hard to come to an agreement and finalize a deal with the Pac-12." -Tommy F

I like the sounds of that!!!!

#113 OFFLINE   James Long

James Long

    Ready for Uplink!

  • Super Moderators
  • 39,892 posts
Joined: Apr 17, 2003

Posted 01 September 2012 - 11:41 AM

The "multiple channel" thing with PAC-12 needs to be sorted out. DISH currently has 24 slots for RSNs in HD. BTN takes up an additional slot with their 24/7 channel. Allowing BTN to consume up to four more slots occasionally when there is conflicting content is a burden, but those up to four channels are available for other channels during the rest of the week.

Asking for multiple 24/7 channels is a greater burden. Perhaps PAC-12 will be able to pick one as the 24/7 feed and open up the others only when games are airing. It would still cut into the 24 HD RSNs available but it would not cost DISH a complete transponder for a single network.

Channels need to look at it from DISH's perspective. Not only is it costing DISH the fee the content owner wants for carriage, it is costing DISH space on the satellites. Think of it as a 25-30k per month investment in each channel they carry in HD. Roughly a quarter of a cent per subscriber for a channel at AT200 available nationwide, but for a regional channel the "per subscriber" shoots up (and for multiple channels the "per subscriber" multiplies by "per channel"). Plus the use of limited space for PAC-12 channels makes it harder to add other HD channels.

#114 OFFLINE   fudpucker

fudpucker

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 664 posts
Joined: Jul 23, 2007

Posted 01 September 2012 - 04:52 PM

Hmm, looks to me like you are getting exactly the SAME (if not more) RSN coverage in DirecTV's base pkg - as you are with DISH. (actually, you ARE getting more on DirecTV, since ALL their RSN's are HD 24/7) :lol:
Sorry to burst your's (& James's) bubbles - but as I said & stand by with earlier - with few exceptions, as long as you are comparing like for like RSN's...you are going to get the SAME RSN/pro-sports coverages between BOTH DBS providers in their base pkgs that include local RSN(s). (except obviously for any RSN's that a given provider does offer at all!)


Um - there's no bursting of bubbles. When I moved here 3 years ago, with DirectTV (which I'd had since 1995) Dish offered more regional sports packages than DirectTV. DirectTV at the time also did not offer the local networks at all. So I switched to Dish. When I commented on how happy I was with Dish's regional coverage and that it was better than what I'd gotten on DirectTV, it was just a comment that Dish does well here, in the same thread in which I'd criticized Dish, not meant to be a "DirectTV SUX!!!! Dish RULEZ!!!" DirectTV now offers the same regional sports in my area that Dish does? Cool.

#115 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

Stewart Vernon

    Excellent Adventurer

  • Moderators
  • 19,691 posts
  • LocationKittrell, NC
Joined: Jan 07, 2005

Posted 01 September 2012 - 06:00 PM

The "multiple channel" thing with PAC-12 needs to be sorted out. DISH currently has 24 slots for RSNs in HD. BTN takes up an additional slot with their 24/7 channel. Allowing BTN to consume up to four more slots occasionally when there is conflicting content is a burden, but those up to four channels are available for other channels during the rest of the week.

Asking for multiple 24/7 channels is a greater burden. Perhaps PAC-12 will be able to pick one as the 24/7 feed and open up the others only when games are airing. It would still cut into the 24 HD RSNs available but it would not cost DISH a complete transponder for a single network.

Channels need to look at it from DISH's perspective. Not only is it costing DISH the fee the content owner wants for carriage, it is costing DISH space on the satellites. Think of it as a 25-30k per month investment in each channel they carry in HD. Roughly a quarter of a cent per subscriber for a channel at AT200 available nationwide, but for a regional channel the "per subscriber" shoots up (and for multiple channels the "per subscriber" multiplies by "per channel"). Plus the use of limited space for PAC-12 channels makes it harder to add other HD channels.


Yeah... PAC-12 trying to have 7 full time channels and claiming they only want what the Big-Ten has is borderline insane! It is one thing if this stuff grew over time... but to come right out of the gate wanting so many full time channels...

Hopefully DirecTV kicking them to the curb will force them to re-think and re-structure so that 1 full-time + alternates will be acceptable.

-- Respect the S.H.I.E.L.D.


#116 OFFLINE   Gloria_Chavez

Gloria_Chavez

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 435 posts
Joined: Aug 11, 2008

Posted 01 September 2012 - 06:28 PM

Does anyone know if the Big-10 asked for multiple channels when it began the BTN?

You would think it would have asked for them, as there's little downside. At worst, the PayTv carrier would have responded it that it does not offer multiple channels to NCAA sports leagues. At best, the carrier would have responded affirmatively.
Since 1995 the average cable bill has increased 122%, while TV consumption per household just 13%.

http://www.multichan...1_Per_Month.php

http://blog.nielsen....-all-time-high/

#117 OFFLINE   Jim5506

Jim5506

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 3,481 posts
Joined: Jun 07, 2004

Posted 02 September 2012 - 02:05 PM

I believe one fulltime channel per conference is more than fair, they do not have that much to offer on a fulltime basis that is interesting to anyone other than the rabid.
Tuners: Hopper 2000; Hopper w/Sling; 3 Joeys; Samsung SIR-T351; Accurian 6000;2 X HD TiVo; 2 X TiVo Series 2 Stand alone; Panasonic Showstopper 2000
Dish 1000.2 @ 110, 119, 129; dish 500 @ 61.5
Antennas - CM4228; RS U75-R; coathanger; Funke PSP.1922 (stillin the box); paperclip
Displays: Sony VPH D50Q with HD Fury HDMI input; Hitachi 57F59; Sony Bravia LCD;Sanyo 32" LCD; Panasonic 42" plasma
Sony 80GB PS3; Toshiba HD-DVD

Give me a Finco colinear array and I'll rule the world - HA-HA-HA-HA!

#118 OFFLINE   WazzuCougs

WazzuCougs

    Cool Member

  • Registered
  • 26 posts
Joined: Aug 09, 2012

Posted 02 September 2012 - 03:08 PM

Basketball season will be here before we know it. It would be hard to get the games from all 12 teams on one channel.

#119 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

Stewart Vernon

    Excellent Adventurer

  • Moderators
  • 19,691 posts
  • LocationKittrell, NC
Joined: Jan 07, 2005

Posted 02 September 2012 - 04:37 PM

Basketball season will be here before we know it. It would be hard to get the games from all 12 teams on one channel.


You missed the point. Alternate game-only feeds are sometimes necessary and would be wanted. But those feeds wouldn't need to be full-time channels to cover the games.

-- Respect the S.H.I.E.L.D.


#120 OFFLINE   WazzuCougs

WazzuCougs

    Cool Member

  • Registered
  • 26 posts
Joined: Aug 09, 2012

Posted 03 September 2012 - 12:31 AM

You missed the point. Alternate game-only feeds are sometimes necessary and would be wanted. But those feeds wouldn't need to be full-time channels to cover the games.



Oh, o.k. I see what you mean now. Too bad the Pac-12 didn't use your foresight. I understand what it was attempting to do, but I think it created more problems for itself.




Protected By... spam firewall...And...