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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Lance Armstrong banned for life,stripped of 7 Tour wins.


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#21 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 05:15 PM

More interesting to me... I remember all the anti-French stuff when France kept saying they thought Lance and others were doping... people said they were just jealous.

I hope France gets an apology out of this too.


Of course French cyclists were doping as well.

More companies have dropped Armstrong or will when contracts run out, including Trek, Giro, 24 hour Fitness, Honey Stinger (which he owns part of) among others. Petty much all of them say they'll continue to support Livestrong.

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#22 OFFLINE   kikkenit2

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 09:55 PM

Armstrong's boss during all those years, Johan Bruyneel just got fired
from the Radio Shack team.

http://www.washingto...e945_story.html

Greg Lemond still strongly claims he was clean when he won the tour.
If so he was probably the only clean winner in 40 years.
And they didn't have near as much drug testing back then.

I hope no tour winner ever tests positive again.
All the recent winners tested positive at some point.
My advice to Lance. Never admit fault and don't give them
a dna sample. Oh wait that was Clinton.:lol:

#23 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 10:02 PM

Of course French cyclists were doping as well.


That wouldn't surprise me... I mean, I gather the sport has been "dirty" for a while.

Where I think an apology is owed, though... is all the people who accused the French of being against Armstrong out of jealousy.

With the cat pretty much out of the bag... all the people accused of only being anti-Armstrong out of jealousy are owed an apology in my opinion.

I'll even go first... because I was a pro-Armstrong guy at the time... and I too thought the French were just mad because an American was winning "their" sport... so, knowing what we appear to know now... I apologize for the ill will I had at the time in thinking that they were just jealous. It appears there was fire where there was smoke.

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#24 OFFLINE   kikkenit2

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 10:55 PM

I meant to say the last 40 years. A quick wiki check of history shows the french
had a lot of reason to be jealous of american riders winning their race.
From 1977 to 1985 france dominated the yellow jersey winning every year but one.
Lemond should have won in 85, but french rider Bernard Hinault wouldn't let him due to team rules.

Greg L. won the next year over french rider Laurent Fignon by 8 seconds on the last day!
Fignon had already won twice, but wiki says he admitted using amphetamines and steroids(cortizone)
on his death bed. Hinault still runs the tour and his legs were like an elephant. Thick!
If Lemond didn't get shot in a hunting accident he would have won lot more than 3 tours.

Then eventually Armstrong comes along and breaks all the records.
Amazingly saved from race ending crashes seven years straight!
If that doesn't make them jealous I don't know what could.

Then Floyd Landis comes along and dominates the end of the next race
only to test positive for cortizone? We are lucky they even let americans
in that race after all that. Most of france respects Armstrong doping or not.
So basically no french rider has won since drug testing started.

Edited by kikkenit2, 17 October 2012 - 11:05 PM.


#25 ONLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 06:35 AM

That wouldn't surprise me... I mean, I gather the sport has been "dirty" for a while.

Where I think an apology is owed, though... is all the people who accused the French of being against Armstrong out of jealousy.

With the cat pretty much out of the bag... all the people accused of only being anti-Armstrong out of jealousy are owed an apology in my opinion.

I'll even go first... because I was a pro-Armstrong guy at the time... and I too thought the French were just mad because an American was winning "their" sport... so, knowing what we appear to know now... I apologize for the ill will I had at the time in thinking that they were just jealous. It appears there was fire where there was smoke.


That's me...I thought it was jealousy. Not just from France, but from everyone who lost. I was wrong.
If you stop responding to them or put them on ignore, then eventually they'll go away.

#26 OFFLINE   Brandon Wedgeworth

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 08:29 AM

As a two time testicular cancer survivor, I can honestly say that I'm much more concerned with all the good that Lance Armstrong has done through LIVESTRONG than what he did or didn't do with regards to doping. Looking at the so called "evidence", it still consists almost entirely of testimony from other people. Third party (eye witness) testimony is widely agreed to be the least reliable form of "evidence".

Regardless of all of that, I sincerely home that this doesn't affect LIVESTRONG too negatively in the future. It's not one of the biggest cancer related charities, but it is among the most efficient at getting donations back into cancer research.

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#27 OFFLINE   Sharkie_Fan

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 11:06 AM

That wouldn't surprise me... I mean, I gather the sport has been "dirty" for a while.

Where I think an apology is owed, though... is all the people who accused the French of being against Armstrong out of jealousy.

With the cat pretty much out of the bag... all the people accused of only being anti-Armstrong out of jealousy are owed an apology in my opinion.

I'll even go first... because I was a pro-Armstrong guy at the time... and I too thought the French were just mad because an American was winning "their" sport... so, knowing what we appear to know now... I apologize for the ill will I had at the time in thinking that they were just jealous. It appears there was fire where there was smoke.


I tend to disagree with you here. The French leading the charge were doing so because they were jealous. There's not a doubt in my mind of that. That they were chasing down a guilty man is irrelevant, IMO.

They weren't chasing down Lance because they wanted to clean up the sport. They were chasing down Lance because they disliked him.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that 90% of the field was doing SOMETHING against the rules. It's not an uncommon practice to wear a testosterone patch after a grueling stage to help recover before the next stage. Not long enough to elevate your blood test, but long enough to "take the edge off". (At least that's the theory. I don't know if it actually works or not). Everybody knows it happens, but if you don't fail a test, then it's no harm, no foul.

From the sound of it, Lance's regimen may have been more sophisticated than some of the others... but they were all cheating. Lance is the poster boy for that generation of cheaters because the French hate him and they've been dying to catch him at something for years.

What's happening to Lance today is like a teacher who knows that the entire class got the answers to the test before hand... and instead of punishing the whole group, singles out the person who got the highest score and flunks only that student while the rest of the class gets the grade they "earned".

Yes, they caught a cheater. But they're ignoring the other 150+ racers who were all cheating with him.
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#28 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 03:53 PM

Yes, they caught a cheater. But they're ignoring the other 150+ racers who were all cheating with him.


I don't disagree with the sentiment... but the only way to do that?

Shut down ALL professional sports today. Wait several years and start up again with a new crop of YOUNG people who have been rigorously tested for years.

I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen.

So... you can never get all the cheating out. All you can do is catch the ones you catch and hope others will stop on their own.

-- Respect the S.H.I.E.L.D.


#29 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 04:36 PM

I don't disagree with the sentiment... but the only way to do that?

Shut down ALL professional sports today. Wait several years and start up again with a new crop of YOUNG people who have been rigorously tested for years.

I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen.

So... you can never get all the cheating out. All you can do is catch the ones you catch and hope others will stop on their own.

Sadl but ture...your assessment is spot on right.

The whole thing is a shame on multiple fronts - the sport, the fans, and the other partipants.
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#30 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 09:00 AM

The fallout expands...Rabobank, a very large cycling team sponsor for the last 17 years from The Netherlands, a big cycling country, has dropped all support for sponsorships. They are including dropping support for women's cycling, so some question whether they used it as a reason for a business decision.

#31 OFFLINE   Sharkie_Fan

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 09:41 AM

I don't disagree with the sentiment... but the only way to do that?

Shut down ALL professional sports today. Wait several years and start up again with a new crop of YOUNG people who have been rigorously tested for years.

I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen.

So... you can never get all the cheating out. All you can do is catch the ones you catch and hope others will stop on their own.


That's the problem though, Stewart. I don't believe that this was an attempt to 'get the cheaters' as much as it was an endeavour to 'get Lance'.

Did he cheat? Yes. Was this a fair and impartial investigation aimed at cleaning up the sport as a whole? Not a chance.

I believe we will continue to see winners, leaders, participants, etc, caught cheating at the same rate they are now. Cycling will once again turn a blind eye to the cheating, IMO.
"There's a statistical theory that if you gave a million monkey's typewriters and set them to work, they'd eventually come up with the complete works of Shakespeare. Thanks to the Internet, we now know this isn't true" -Ian Hart

#32 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 12:37 PM

That's the problem though, Stewart. I don't believe that this was an attempt to 'get the cheaters' as much as it was an endeavour to 'get Lance'.

Did he cheat? Yes. Was this a fair and impartial investigation aimed at cleaning up the sport as a whole? Not a chance.

I believe we will continue to see winners, leaders, participants, etc, caught cheating at the same rate they are now. Cycling will once again turn a blind eye to the cheating, IMO.


The thing is... you can say that about anyone caught doing anything... and it may even be true... but when a problem is as pervasive as everyone thinks it is... there's no way to get rid of ALL the people cheating at one time. You can only catch the ones you catch and move forward.

The world seems to have adopted the mindset that "it isn't cheating if you don't get caught"... so... as long as there are people, there will be people trying to get around rules and take risks to win... especially when the penalty for getting caught isn't worse than the rewards of getting away with it.

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#33 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 08:02 PM

Considered putting this in the TV reminders thread but thought if just put it here. My guide isn't updated, but he will be doing a "no holds barred" 90 minute interview with the tough and hard hitting Oprah on OWN, January 17 at 9 EST.

#34 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:03 PM

After learning how this guy was downright methodical in his destroying ANYone who dared to accuse him of doping, and of the manner in which he did dope, I think Armstrong is an absolute total piece of sh*t, nothing less than human debris. He ought to be shunned by everyone for life.

He lied to everyone, including his charity, which was a sham itself. What a scumbag this guy is.

FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


#35 ONLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:11 PM

After learning how this guy was downright methodical in his destroying ANYone who dared to accuse him of doping, and of the manner in which he did dope, I think Armstrong is an absolute total piece of sh*t, nothing less than human debris. He ought to be shunned by everyone for life.

He lied to everyone, including his charity, which was a sham itself. What a scumbag this guy is.


It hurts to type this... I agree with LV. ;)
If you stop responding to them or put them on ignore, then eventually they'll go away.

#36 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:12 PM

There's hope for you yet, my young apprentice.

FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


#37 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 07:15 PM

It hurts to type this... I agree with LV. ;)


Funny... I had the same thought :)

But, yeah... Vader nailed it here.

The actual cheating could have been defensible back then... even his early denials...

But, that he didn't just deny it... Lance Armstrong vilified anyone who dared accuse him... chastising, ruining reputations, and suing people AND winning!

That type of arrogance, to me, trumps all the drug charges... in fact, you can be sure the only reason he would be "repenting" now is because he knows it is he only way to keep living the high life to which he has become accustomed.

I feel sorry for anyone he trampled on, anyone who trusted/believed in him, and the people at his charity that really wanted to help cancer patients.

Armstrong even used to play the "I had cancer" card when people attacked him for doing drugs... hard to be much lower if you ask me.

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#38 OFFLINE   djlong

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 06:58 AM

I wouldn't be so quick to call his charity a sham.

Unless you're talking about the act of creating it being an attempt to salve his conscience.. THAT I could agree with - but from everything I've heard, the charity itself is reputable.

#39 OFFLINE   yosoyellobo

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 07:42 AM

Does the end justified the mean. Not in this case. If he is taken to the cleaners by all those that been damage by his action so be it.

#40 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 03:53 PM

A charity that spends in excess of 40 cents to collect a dollar is not a reputable charity, IMHO.

FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.





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