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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Lance Armstrong banned for life,stripped of 7 Tour wins.


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73 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   djlong

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 05:56 AM

Well, at least I see where you're coming from. From that point of view, yeah, Livestrong, like so many other charities, can be measured as "wanting".

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#42 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:48 AM

After seeing the recent episode of 60 Minutes where the USADA investigator was interviewed in length, I learned even more just how much of a vile human being Lance Armstrong truly is. I'd go so far as to say based on what I heard in that 60 Minutes piece about how Armstrong destroyed peoples' careers and lives if they dared to "spread lies" about his cheating (he actually went through with his threats against several persons), I don't believe he should ever be forgiven and ever allowed into competitive sports again. He's an evil person.

I also believe civil suits aren't punitive enough for this scumbag. He needs to spend time in jail for what he did.

FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


#43 OFFLINE   fluffybear

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:18 AM

After seeing the recent episode of 60 Minutes where the USADA investigator was interviewed in length, I learned even more just how much of a vile human being Lance Armstrong truly is. I'd go so far as to say based on what I heard in that 60 Minutes piece about how Armstrong destroyed peoples' careers and lives if they dared to "spread lies" about his cheating (he actually went through with his threats against several persons), I don't believe he should ever be forgiven and ever allowed into competitive sports again. He's an evil person.

I also believe civil suits aren't punitive enough for this scumbag. He needs to spend time in jail for what he did.


I have not been following this close enough.. Is there proof he actually did destroy people's lives? No offense but when it comes to investigators, a lot of what they say needs to be investigated..

I won't disagree with you about Lance needing to serve time for what he did but I'm not convinced that USADA was not going to extra mile just to nail him.

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#44 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:14 AM

Well, one thing would be that while he claims he never made anyone dope, the reality is that anyone that didn't measure up performance wise wouldn't have lasted on the team. But in reality, would they have lasted on any team?

One thing I actually agree with Armstrong on, I cannot see how USADA can say that he led "the most sophisticated, professional and successful doping program sport has ever seen."

I just cannot see this as surpassing cases like East Germany.

#45 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:14 AM

I have not been following this close enough..


Apparently there is. The USADA investigator and the 60 Minutes journalist both discussed by name the persons Lance destroyed.

FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


#46 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:17 AM

One thing I actually agree with Armstrong on, I cannot see how USADA can say that he led "the most sophisticated, professional and successful doping program sport has ever seen."

I just cannot see this as surpassing cases like East Germany.


From 60 Minutes' explanation, what Lance and several of his teammates did was, to say the least, one hell of a complex and elaborate cheating system.

FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


#47 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:27 AM

I'm not saying it wasn't, though the system didn't help any if they didn't do out of competition testing. It's like MLB, they didn't exactly make it hard to dope in the past.

But I don't see it as being more sophisticated etc than an entire government sponsored system.

#48 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:29 AM

I think what differentiates it from others is how Armstrong vehemently denied ever doing anything wrong and actively went after anyone who dared to expose him, to the point where his threats became reality for some people, as he ruined the lives of more than one person, each of whom was totally correct in their accusations of Lance.

FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


#49 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:31 AM

Now that I agree with.

#50 OFFLINE   fluffybear

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:18 PM

Apparently there is. The USADA investigator and the 60 Minutes journalist both discussed by name the persons Lance destroyed.



First, the interview was with Travis Tygart, USADA CEO and not an investigator.

Second, Tygart has had a hard on for Armstrong for many years and has made his personal mission to completely destroy Armstrong.

Third, I don't put a lot of faith in Greg LaMond's honesty either. LaMond and his wife like to claim that Armstrong destroyed them but one has to realize that sounds a lot better than saying, "we screwed up".

As I said before, I am not defending what Armstrong did and believe he needs to pay a severe price for his actions but by the same token have doubts about the honesty of Tygart and this entire investigation. In a lot of ways it gives the appearance of being a rather large witch hunt and nothing Armstrong will ever do will make Tygart happy.

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#51 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:02 PM

I don't normally support witch hunts... but when I do... I catch witches :)

But seriously... I was one who thought people were unfairly persecuting Armstrong for years. He wasn't a "hero" to me or anything, but the way he denied everything and sued people and ruined reputations of people who dared accuse him of cheating... well, it sure seemed like he must be clean or why open that pandora's box?

To then find out he was doing all of this stuff and himself daring to question people's motives or honesty... in my mind it makes him worse than they could ever have been.

Were there people pursuing Armstrong with less evidence but ulterior motives or bias? Sure. I'm sure there were... But was he arrogant and cheating and wrong and blatantly lying and ruining other honest people's reputations? YES!

Hindsight is 20/20... so I've already said I apologize for in my mind thinking the French were just jealous and wanting to get that American for winning "their" race... I fell into the trap of bias against the French... and I should have known better... but at least I didn't go after people's money and reputation to support the lies like Armstrong did.

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#52 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:33 PM

First, the interview was with Travis Tygart, USADA CEO and not an investigator.

Second, Tygart has had a hard on for Armstrong for many years and has made his personal mission to completely destroy Armstrong.


You mean like Armstrong making it his personal mission to destroy those who dared to expose his cheating? Of course, Tygart never did do that. Armstrong, however, did. He ruined the careers of more than one person.

BTW, I referenced Tygart as an investigator because I didn't have handy his title, and since he headed the investigation as the USADA CEO, I referred to him as one.


Third, I don't put a lot of faith in Greg LaMond's honesty either. LaMond and his wife like to claim that Armstrong destroyed them but one has to realize that sounds a lot better than saying, "we screwed up".


I wasn't referring to LaMond; rather, there were others whom 60 Minutes referenced and said their careers were ruined by Armstrong.

As I said before, I am not defending what Armstrong did and believe he needs to pay a severe price for his actions...


Prison time would be a good start.

FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


#53 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:35 PM

Love this!

FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


#54 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:49 PM

First, the interview was with Travis Tygart, USADA CEO and not an investigator.

Second, Tygart has had a hard on for Armstrong for many years and has made his personal mission to completely destroy Armstrong.

Third, I don't put a lot of faith in Greg LaMond's honesty either. LaMond and his wife like to claim that Armstrong destroyed them but one has to realize that sounds a lot better than saying, "we screwed up".

As I said before, I am not defending what Armstrong did and believe he needs to pay a severe price for his actions but by the same token have doubts about the honesty of Tygart and this entire investigation. In a lot of ways it gives the appearance of being a rather large witch hunt and nothing Armstrong will ever do will make Tygart happy.

There's alot of reality and truth to those points. There are plenty of "bandwagon critics" when things turn sour.

I also recall how Ray Lewis was "going to be destroyed" on many fronts years ago for very nearly being charged within a murder case in Atlanta.

At that time, the general consensus was that not only was his career toast, but any chance for a personal life free of ridicule and turmoil would be gone.

My how things change. More information came out, and his life changed for the better. He admittedly made the best of the "turnaround", even though a number of folks (including me) don't personally care for him.

I'll only reference Bill Clinton and his bad choices and situations in the past as another example. He now is embraced as a public speaker and garners big bucks doing it. In the present time, Monica L. is a distant memory to many.

No doubt Lance Armstrong made some poor choices and those led to more bad choices. His various deeds over the past 10 years also led to alot of people getting badly-needed help and gaining improved lives based on his efforts.

I don't think anyone can really forecast how this situation will look 5 years from now.
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#55 OFFLINE   fluffybear

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:51 PM

I don't normally support witch hunts... but when I do... I catch witches :)


My concern is that the USADA is a private organization and pretty much can do what they want. They can continue to hound someone even after they have determined the individual did nothing wrong. I am not saying this is the case with Armstrong but from what I have read (this afternoon) on Tygart, this was a man who was not going to be happy until Armstrong went down.

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#56 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:52 PM

There's alot of reality and truth to those points. There are plenty of "bandwagon critics" when things turn sour.

I also recall how Ray Lewis was "going to be destroyed" on many fronts years ago for very nearly being charged within a murder case in Atlanta.

At that time, the general consensus was that not only was his career toast, but any chance for a personal life free of ridicule and turmoil would be gone.

My how things change. More information came out, and his life changed for the better. He admittedly made the best of the "turnaround", even though a number of folks (including me) don't personally care for him.

I'll only reference Bill Clinton and his bad choices and situations in the past as another example. He now is embraced as a public speaker and garners big bucks doing it. In the present time, Monica L. is a distant memory to many.

No doubt Lance Armstrong made some poor choices and those led to more bad choices. His various deeds over the past 10 years also led to alot of people getting badly-needed help and gaining improved lives based on his efforts.

I don't think anyone can really forecast how this situation will look 5 years from now.


Considering how he poorly managed his charity, how he used it, IMHO, to advance his fraudulent career (sure, a few folks might have been helped, but that was probably more so by accident), I can't agree that any good he did, of which there was little, made any difference.

FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


#57 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:55 PM

My concern is that the USADA is a private organization and pretty much can do what they want. They can continue to hound someone even after they have determined the individual did nothing wrong. I am not saying this is the case with Armstrong but from what I have read (this afternoon) on Tygart, this was a man who was not going to be happy until Armstrong went down.


Tygart did not start out from the very beginning with that attitude. It developed, understandably, after he kept getting the runaround from Armstrong. When it became clear Armstrong was running an elaborate, extensive, deceptive doping/cheating ring, stonewalling the USADA, lying, and threatening numerous people, Tygart included, it's understandable the latter made it his goal to nail Armstrong, and for that, Tygart should be commended.

Tygart wasn't the one who wanted this "vendetta". It was Lance who caused it. Now he has to suffer the consequences.

FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


#58 OFFLINE   fluffybear

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:56 PM

Love this!


One can only hope that you do not believe this letter was real.

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#59 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:57 PM

You mean it isn't? OMG!!!

(Duh.)

FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


#60 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:29 PM

My concern is that the USADA is a private organization and pretty much can do what they want. They can continue to hound someone even after they have determined the individual did nothing wrong. I am not saying this is the case with Armstrong but from what I have read (this afternoon) on Tygart, this was a man who was not going to be happy until Armstrong went down.


I would have to know the mindset of the guy... A cop who harasses people as a rule might be unhinged... but a cop who doggedly pursues a specific person whom he knows (but cannot yet prove) is guilty, might be worthy of a commendation when finally catching the culprit.

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