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BTN & DISH Agree to Deal (was BTN, Dish Network negotiation at stalemate)


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153 replies to this topic

#121 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 08:45 PM

These threads always amuse me. Like any game is 'important' at all.

If the two teams in any game got together before it started and decided to switch uniforms, would anybody notice? Or would the crowds still root for a certain color jersey?


What is your point here?

I could say the thing about most TV. Most original plots have been played out by now... so most TV shows and movies are just the same stories with different actors and costumes.

So arguably, by that logic you've presented... there's no point in any TV, thus no point in Dish or DirecTV or cable, and then no point for DBSTalk since we'd have nothing to talk about.

:confused:

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#122 OFFLINE   pmjones

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 10:07 PM

These threads always amuse me. Like any game is 'important' at all.

If the two teams in any game got together before it started and decided to switch uniforms, would anybody notice? Or would the crowds still root for a certain color jersey?


Why comment when you clearly don't care?

#123 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 09:15 AM

Insults are not necessary or allowed here.

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#124 OFFLINE   klang

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 09:35 AM

Insults are not necessary or allowed here.


Isn't post #118 an insult to every sport fan?

#125 OFFLINE   jdskycaster

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 10:03 AM

Pound sand BTN. I may have watched a couple of Badger games through an entire season (because they were not broadcast on local channels for some idiotic reason) but I am not going to drop Dish because of a couple of games. I will get my college football fix watching games televised from the other conferences on those days.

Maybe if BTN goes bankrupt we will be able to see the local games on another network that we are already paying for. That would be my hope.

#126 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 10:47 AM

Maybe if BTN goes bankrupt we will be able to see the local games on another network that we are already paying for. That would be my hope.


The argument for why we needed BTN in the first place was so that they could televise more of the "less popular" sports. I don't see the softball and volleyball fans rising up to protest the loss of BTN. What we really got was double-charged for the popular sports of basketball and football. If ESPN+ came back, I'd be pretty happy. Yeah, there were a handful of games not televised, but it didn't ruin my life to have to do yard work instead of watching another game (and unpopular games are almost always blowouts anyway). But the days of ESPN+ are probably over.

I have nothing against BTN. I just wish these fringe channels charged fringe prices.

#127 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 12:49 PM

If anyone has a specific problem with a specific post, report it and the moderators will take a look.

If you have a question about how the thread is moderated, contact another moderator. Questioning moderation is not acceptable in threads.

Thank you for getting back to topic and allowing the thread to stay open!

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#128 OFFLINE   acs236

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 02:00 PM

That's funny. Last year BTN distributed nearly $8 million to EACH of the Big 10 schools. Sounds like its profit margin is fine.

Frankly, I don't care who's at fault here. Both Dish and BTN are screwing their customers.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Dish doesn't need BTN nearly as much as BTN needs Dish. Profit margins are thin. Advertising revenue is viewer-based, and denying a significant number of viewers a single game will hurt BTN in the pocketbook. And then the per-subscriber fees they were getting disappear, too. The only thing they can do is cut costs (original programming) or cave.



#129 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 03:52 AM

That's funny. Last year BTN distributed nearly $8 million to EACH of the Big 10 schools. Sounds like its profit margin is fine.

Frankly, I don't care who's at fault here. Both Dish and BTN are screwing their customers.


If the BTN really is making that much dough, they have no reason to seek a price increase. And Dish would be right to refuse any increase.

Dish isn't screwing me. I don't watch BTN, even though I live in a Big Ten market. I can live without it much easier than I could part with extra money every month.

#130 OFFLINE   syphix

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 07:49 AM

The argument for why we needed BTN in the first place was so that they could televise more of the "less popular" sports. I don't see the softball and volleyball fans rising up to protest the loss of BTN. What we really got was double-charged for the popular sports of basketball and football. If ESPN+ came back, I'd be pretty happy. Yeah, there were a handful of games not televised, but it didn't ruin my life to have to do yard work instead of watching another game (and unpopular games are almost always blowouts anyway). But the days of ESPN+ are probably over.

I have nothing against BTN. I just wish these fringe channels charged fringe prices.

Exactly. It's my fear that if DISH and DirecTV (and the cable providers) start buckling to the demands of BTN and Pac12 Network, EVERY conference is going to want a network, and FREE broadcasts of college sports is going to be a thing of the past. :(
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#131 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 10:10 AM

Exactly. It's my fear that if DISH and DirecTV (and the cable providers) start buckling to the demands of BTN and Pac12 Network, EVERY conference is going to want a network, and FREE broadcasts of college sports is going to be a thing of the past. :(


Despite that fear, there is more "free" (OTA) college sports on than there ever was. All the big conferences have OTA deals as well as cable/satellite deals. There is actually more Big Ten sports on OTA than there was before BTN as part of the ABC/ESPN contract.

Remember, "free" is CBS (a couple of SEC games a week), ABC, NBC (only Notre Dame basically), Fox (a few games) and syndication of SEC, ACC, etc.

ESPN is not free. RSNs are not free. NBC Sports Channel (Versus) is not free. F/X is not free. CBS Sports Network (previously College Sports) is not free. None of the BCS bowl games are free.

None of these college networks expect or plan to be the only providers of their conferences. ABC et al are still and continue to be important to them.
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#132 OFFLINE   Klatu

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 10:52 AM

I have the B10 in the 200 package and watch sometimes in football and mostly in basketball. When in AZ I have to pay for the regional package ($9/mo) to see the basketball games as I am in another region then. Looks like I'll save some money this next year.

The B10 should not have turned off it's customers. Too bad.

I told the Big Ten Network that I was suspending all donations to one of the B10 schools until they turned us back on; told the school that also. Not much money, but their greed is starting to get to me. So screw 'um.

Dish should renegotiate with ESPN and get some of the sd channels turned on to HD and let the B10 swing.

Back to rooting for Notre Dame, I guess.

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#133 OFFLINE   festivus

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 11:33 AM

My "free" CBS station wants a big increase from Dish. So I no longer have it via satellite. Still get it OTA but it makes the dvr timers a pain.

I'm tired of these stations (BTN included) wanting more and more cash. How much is enough?
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#134 OFFLINE   acs236

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 01:30 PM

I'm not making the numbers up: http://www.stltoday....1a4bcf6878.html

If you don't care about BTN, then fine -- but why are you commenting in this thread?

And I'm not sure why everyone is assuming BTN is to blame here. We don't know the details of the negotiations. We hear unconfirmed bits in pieces. Maybe it's BTN's fault, maybe it's Dish's fault -- likely, it's both.

Directv seems to get in spats with channels all the time, but they rarely seem to lose them. I recall the viacom dispute a few months ago. Dish, on the other hand, still doesn't have AMC.

If the BTN really is making that much dough, they have no reason to seek a price increase. And Dish would be right to refuse any increase.

Dish isn't screwing me. I don't watch BTN, even though I live in a Big Ten market. I can live without it much easier than I could part with extra money every month.



#135 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 02:22 PM

If you don't care about BTN, then fine -- but why are you commenting in this thread?

And I'm not sure why everyone is assuming BTN is to blame here. We don't know the details of the negotiations. We hear unconfirmed bits in pieces. Maybe it's BTN's fault, maybe it's Dish's fault -- likely, it's both.

Directv seems to get in spats with channels all the time, but they rarely seem to lose them. I recall the viacom dispute a few months ago. Dish, on the other hand, still doesn't have AMC.


I care about BTN a teeny, tiny little bit. I can imagine a snowy Saturday when I'd like to watch a Gophers game and missing it because of this. Or a basketball game, if they're playing well. But otherwise, forget about it.

I think the reason everyone assumes BTN is to blame is because they are publicly insisting that they are not to blame. And because their complaints do not say, "We offered to continue providing our programming to the same packages at the same rates and Dish said no." In other words, BTN has demanded an increase, and there's no reason to think Dish would turn down a reasonable (under 5 cents/sub) request. If the numbers were that low, BTN would be announcing it loudly.

DirecTV does seem to settle these things quite quickly. The Viacom thing was quite surprising when it happened. But if you look, DirecTV is also more expensive for identical programming than Dish, and that is in part because DirecTV errs on the side of programming over price. Dish holds the line hard on price and is willing to kiss unreasonable programmers goodbye. In essence, Dish is doing the heavy lifting of keeping prices down.

#136 OFFLINE   acs236

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 02:57 PM

Agreed -- the .05/sub thing really doesn't make sense. Hell, I'd pay an extra $1 a month to subsidize my share of Dish customers who value their nickles.

Again, though, there is so much information we don't have.

I assume BTN was asking for more money. In fact, that has to be the case. The question is, how much? And was it reasonable? Is Dish's claim that BTN wanted 1/3 more than its deal with other providers true? It seems hard to believe -- why would BTN want more from Dish? I doubt Dish is using a true apples to apples comparison when making that claim. It's not in BTN's interest to just screw with Dish.

If BTN's product outgrew the previous price Dish was paying, then I would expect BTN (or any company in its situation) not to agree to extend the current deal indefinitely. If it did that, Dish would have no incentive to reach a new deal and would, in essence, get the benefit of the old, outdated price indefinitely. So I don't know who's really to blame regarding the blackout.

To me, it all comes down to reasonableness. Was the rate increase that BTN demanded reasonable? As to this, I have no idea.

I care about BTN a teeny, tiny little bit. I can imagine a snowy Saturday when I'd like to watch a Gophers game and missing it because of this. Or a basketball game, if they're playing well. But otherwise, forget about it.

I think the reason everyone assumes BTN is to blame is because they are publicly insisting that they are not to blame. And because their complaints do not say, "We offered to continue providing our programming to the same packages at the same rates and Dish said no." In other words, BTN has demanded an increase, and there's no reason to think Dish would turn down a reasonable (under 5 cents/sub) request. If the numbers were that low, BTN would be announcing it loudly.

DirecTV does seem to settle these things quite quickly. The Viacom thing was quite surprising when it happened. But if you look, DirecTV is also more expensive for identical programming than Dish, and that is in part because DirecTV errs on the side of programming over price. Dish holds the line hard on price and is willing to kiss unreasonable programmers goodbye. In essence, Dish is doing the heavy lifting of keeping prices down.



#137 OFFLINE   syphix

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 03:01 PM

First they came for AMC,
and I didn't speak out because I don't watch AMC.

Then they came for BTN,
and I didn't speak out because I don't watch BTN.

Then they came for a channel I do watch,
and there was no one left to speak for me.

Edited by syphix, 20 September 2012 - 03:07 PM.

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#138 OFFLINE   monoparadox

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 03:26 PM

I find it interesting that the negotiations have been framed as with "Fox" regarding the BTN. Bad blood might be boiling and the BigTen may be caught somewhat in the middle.

#139 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 04:16 PM

If you don't care about BTN, then fine -- but why are you commenting in this thread?

The thread is open to both points of view.

#140 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 05:24 PM

This is not a DirecTV vs Dish thread... but having said that, this is a BAD thread to be bringing up DirecTV.

Dish lost BTN, but signed with PAC-12.
DirecTV still has BTN, but thus far has failed to sign PAC-12.

So on an apples to apples comparison... I'd say on this one particular situation (college leagues launching their own networks) Dish and DirecTV have the same record.

Further.. Dish was the first to sign with BTN 5 years ago... similarly Dish was the first to sign with PAC-12... so if you give a nod to a small margin, Dish technically has the upper hand on this particular scenario.

Most of the time you'd be right... that DirecTV seems to have less disputes... but they seem to be getting smarter and joining the fray in fighting the channels... so I expect to see DirecTV more like Dish in the coming months and years.

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