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Guest Message by DevFuse

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OTA for Hopper?


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368 replies to this topic

#61 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:27 AM

Ask me and I will make same presentation/PDF for any of your weird request: say - trim recordings and remove commercial breaks from any event. :D


It strains credulity to believe they created a mockup for their documentation to be used by end customers, when it would be simpler to take screen shots of the actual menus so that users would not be confused, should design challenges change the interface. As a former developer, I can tell you that it is far harder to document something that has yet to be written. While it is by no means impossible in this day of Photoshop and sophisticated editing software to create nearly anything imaginable, the question that would have to be asked is why a corporation would do this for one of their own products? At a public media event to demonstrate some new software or feature, sure, but to quietly slip it into their support pages without fanfare?

Conspiracy theorists will never be satisfied, of course.

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#62 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:56 PM

We simply do not know what firmware version was used to make the screenshots.

The date on the screen shots? 2/29 on the settings menu, 3/11 on the OTA setup menu and 12/15 on the program guide. The same freeze frame is shown in December and February ... so I'd say these were mock-ups.

But that does not mean that DISH isn't working on OTA and having a manual isn't a bad sign.

#63 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 08:34 PM

For what it's worth... I worked for a company as a technical writer and illustrator... and for one project I mocked up some screens in Photoshop. The screens I made were pretty good unless you knew where to look for the minor flaws... but the deal was this was an electronic device (not computer controlled) that they wanted to show several screens in the marketing materials that were not easy to duplicate on the test bed.

It was easier for me to mock up the screens than for them to tie up an engineer to create false failure scenarios to show the proper indicators on the device just for a photograph.

I do wish the mockup people would put a little more care into these things, though... so that it isn't as easy to look at as James just did and realize they were probably mockups. Probably a few more minutes of care and we still would be wondering if they were mockups or not.

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#64 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 10:06 PM

The sloppy work shoot in your eyes from the disorientation of fist page, duh !
And mockup's hiccups are just piling on top of this sh... umm base ...

#65 OFFLINE   Bobham

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 08:27 AM

I want to use the OTA device as a hedge against Gannett loss. Hope Dish releases it soon enough to mitigate the loss of my local channels.

#66 OFFLINE   moman19

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 12:49 PM

I want to use the OTA device as a hedge against Gannett loss. Hope Dish releases it soon enough to mitigate the loss of my local channels.


Hmmm. I wonder if Dish is allowed to provide programming info in the Guide for an OTA channel that is blocked for satellite re-transmission due to the dispute. My 722k has OTA. So when the Satellite channel is replaced with a slate, I must wonder how that will affect the OTA version of that channel in the guide. Not much of an inconvenience if it's still available.

(I hope this gets settled so I don't need to find the answer).
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#67 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 02:23 PM

Hmmm. I wonder if Dish is allowed to provide programming info in the Guide for an OTA channel that is blocked for satellite re-transmission due to the dispute.

Allowed to? Perhaps ... but DISH doesn't do that. When they pull the channel they change the EPG to "important message" or something like that and there is no correct EPG until the channel returns.

#68 OFFLINE   moman19

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 04:19 PM

Allowed to? Perhaps ... but DISH doesn't do that. When they pull the channel they change the EPG to "important message" or something like that and there is no correct EPG until the channel returns.


Thanks James, but that isn't what I wanted to hear :(
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#69 OFFLINE   jeffdb27

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:40 PM

... Not much of an inconvenience if it's still available.


It is very much an inconvenience if the guide imformation isn't available for OTA channels. Timers won't work and can't even be set (except for manual timers). Some time ago one of my OTA channels I receive with my 722k stopped having guide information. It just says "Digital Service". Now the channel is almost useless. I've gone back and forth with DISH and the station but it seems nothing is going to be done about this for this station :mad:

Hopper (owned) + EHD + Sling Adapter + OTA Adapter
AT200 + BB@Home + RSNs + Locals
SATS: 110/119/129
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#70 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:59 PM

It is very much an inconvenience if the guide imformation isn't available for OTA channels. Timers won't work and can't even be set (except for manual timers). Some time ago one of my OTA channels I receive with my 722k stopped having guide information. It just says "Digital Service". Now the channel is almost useless. I've gone back and forth with DISH and the station but it seems nothing is going to be done about this for this station :mad:

I have fought the same issues with DISH ... I had one channel that didn't have the correct EPG - and after reporting it I was told (incorrectly) that it was a problem with the station (yet DISH receivers do not get their EPG OTA, they get it from DISH). After that first complaint they made a change that lost me another channel's EPG. So I complained again and got more incorrect information blaming it on my receivers (no, paying for a replacement receiver is not going to help fix the uplink tables). And soon afterwards they changed the EPG data and a third OTA EPG was lost. I decided to stop complaining before I lost EPG for all the channels in my market. :)

I've had the Hopper since it came out and look forward to having the OTA option again. Hopefully the holes have been fixed in the guide data.

BTW: I keep a current list (updated daily) of all of DISH's local market channels and additional EPG channels. It is on my website at:
http://uplink.jamesl.../locallist.html

The channels may map to a different number than shown on my chart ... that is controlled by the local station. But if a channel isn't there DISH isn't sending EPG. (If you are receiving OTA from more than one market check the other markets on the list.)

#71 OFFLINE   jeffdb27

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:41 AM

BTW: I keep a current list (updated daily) of all of DISH's local market channels and additional EPG channels. It is on my website at:
http://uplink.jamesl.../locallist.html

The channels may map to a different number than shown on my chart ... that is controlled by the local station. But if a channel isn't there DISH isn't sending EPG. (If you are receiving OTA from more than one market check the other markets on the list.)


I really don't understand how this works. I am in the Wichita, KS DMA. KSNW has translator stations around the state. The one where I live in Salina, KS is KSNL ch 6 (low power) and it has guide information. The one in Great Bend, KS ch 2 is KSNC (high power) and it has no guide information.

The station I mentioned that has the problem is KSAS ch 24 in Wichita. It is channel 17 here and is KAAS. For years it was fine. Even though it was broadcasting on ch 17 it showed in the EPG as 24-01 (not just on DISH recievers). Then they changed something and we had to rescan, then it showed up on 17-01 and the guide info was gone.

None of these translator stations are in your map list, yet some have guide information on DISH.

Hopper (owned) + EHD + Sling Adapter + OTA Adapter
AT200 + BB@Home + RSNs + Locals
SATS: 110/119/129
Dish Network Customer since
October 1996


#72 OFFLINE   eddieopus

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:10 AM

Dish called me last week to see if I got my Roku hooked up. While I had the guy on the phone I asked about the OTA module and he said he know nothing about it but will check the system. He came back and sid he found it in the system and when I asked him for a price he told me the status is out of stock so he had no price for me. Take it for what it's worth but to me is seems like it will be here soon.

#73 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 04:59 PM

None of these translator stations are in your map list, yet some have guide information on DISH.

The key is the "TSID". Each station transmits this number (or should) to uniquely identify the signal. DISH uses the TSID transmitted by whatever channels are received and matches them to their EPG data. Some matches are done based on channels DISH carries, others match EPG data carried on channels in the 14000s and 15000s.

Translators can use the same TSID as the station they repeat or they can use a different TSID. If they use the same TSID then DISH cannot tell the difference between the original station and the translator. Usually that means the mapping works. But if the TSID is different and DISH does not add an "EPG only" channel to map to the translator's TSID then there is no match.

#74 OFFLINE   moman19

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:34 PM

The key is the "TSID". Each station transmits this number (or should) to uniquely identify the signal. DISH uses the TSID transmitted by whatever channels are received and matches them to their EPG data. Some matches are done based on channels DISH carries, others match EPG data carried on channels in the 14000s and 15000s.

Translators can use the same TSID as the station they repeat or they can use a different TSID. If they use the same TSID then DISH cannot tell the difference between the original station and the translator. Usually that means the mapping works. But if the TSID is different and DISH does not add an "EPG only" channel to map to the translator's TSID then there is no match.


James,
This may be off-topic but it is interesting. PBS has 4 channels in my (St. Louis) market. 009-01 is the main HD channel while the other three are SD alternatives. When I review your web site, all four channels have the same TSID. However, the EPG is only correct for 09-01. EPG shows that 009-02 duplicates whats on the-01 sub (which is incorrect) the-03 sub has no info and the -04 is correct sometimes. So who's a fault here? Dish? Tribune? The station? It's never been correct since the channel went digital.
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#75 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:53 PM

James,
This may be off-topic but it is interesting. PBS has 4 channels in my (St. Louis) market. 009-01 is the main HD channel while the other three are SD alternatives. When I review your web site, all four channels have the same TSID. However, the EPG is only correct for 09-01. EPG shows that 009-02 duplicates whats on the-01 sub (which is incorrect) the-03 sub has no info and the -04 is correct sometimes. So who's a fault here? Dish? Tribune? The station? It's never been correct since the channel went digital.


Check station's TSID also at www.rabbitears.info, dish could have these wrong.

Edited by P Smith, 08 October 2012 - 10:18 PM.


#76 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:15 PM

James,
This may be off-topic but it is interesting. PBS has 4 channels in my (St. Louis) market. 009-01 is the main HD channel while the other three are SD alternatives. When I review your web site, all four channels have the same TSID. However, the EPG is only correct for 09-01. EPG shows that 009-02 duplicates whats on the-01 sub (which is incorrect) the-03 sub has no info and the -04 is correct sometimes. So who's a fault here? Dish? Tribune? The station? It's never been correct since the channel went digital.

Here is the EPG in question:
9-01 KETC1 TSID 0x068F, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 14224)
9-02 KETC2 TSID 0x068F, Subchannel 02 (DISH Channel 14225)
9-03 KETC TSID 0x068F, Subchannel 03 (DISH Channel 6459/8596)
9-04 KETC4 TSID 0x068F, Subchannel 04 (DISH Channel 14895)

Having the same TSID is good ... the TSID refers to the channel, not the subchannels. Where DISH has failed (based on your observation) is matching the subchannel to the program data. It is possible that their source data is wrong (check Zap2IT to see if that matches reality). If the source is wrong then the problem lies between Tribune and the station.

Having -03 "no info" is odd since that is based on the channel DISH actually carries as 9-00. It should at least be the wrong info.

Check station's TSID also at www.rabbitear.info, dish could have these wrong.

DISH has the TSID right, per "rabbitears". (Fortunately Trip bought both domains to catch the misspellers. :))

#77 OFFLINE   scottchez

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 06:47 PM

Neighbor got the Hopper. Then he found out you CANT watch Star Trek on it as there is no over the air Tuner (OTA) for the hopper yet like on the other Dish DVRs.
He also cant watch PBS in HD and he cant get the local Weather Channel and cant get MyNetwork TV.


All of the above plus Star Trek is on here on sub channels not avl on the SAT

He called and said when he sign they said he got all local channels which it turns out he does not and listed them out.

The CSR said the USB Turner was coming out "Soon" they did not have a date, and then they gave him an other $10 off each month for 6 months for the miss understanding.
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#78 OFFLINE   djlong

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:50 AM

Don't need the Weather Channel. Heck, nowadays, when you tune to TWC, you might not get the weather. I configured the Weather Channel app on the Joey and now I really DO get the weather whenever I want it.

#79 OFFLINE   722921

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:08 PM

Neighbor got the Hopper. Then he found out you CANT watch Star Trek on it as there is no over the air Tuner (OTA) for the hopper yet like on the other Dish DVRs.
He also cant watch PBS in HD and he cant get the local Weather Channel and cant get MyNetwork TV.


All of the above plus Star Trek is on here on sub channels not avl on the SAT

He called and said when he sign they said he got all local channels which it turns out he does not and listed them out.

The CSR said the USB Turner was coming out "Soon" they did not have a date, and then they gave him an other $10 off each month for 6 months for the miss understanding.


For these reasons, the hopper is not for me either.
Hopper feeds the 73" Mitz WD-73640 3D DLP/1080p (and 19" Polaroid LCD/720p via RF)
Joey 1 feeds the 62" Mitz WD-62628 DLP/1080P (and 16" Polaroid LCD/720p via RF)
Joey 2 feeds the new 40" Specter LCD black friday special
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#80 OFFLINE   BenJF3

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 02:23 PM

Well, with the return of AMC, Dish is now almost a viable option once again. However, I've been looking at the Genie and it will stream OTA to it's clients. I'm waiting on Dish to give us a USB option for OTA.

Other issues are:

Would need two Hoppers because lack of tuners for Joeys (Genie has 5, Hopper has 3)

OTA must be able to stream to Joeys

Hoppers mush "see" each other and act as one which they currently don't do.

OTA's must appear in the Guide
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