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Guest Message by DevFuse

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OTA for Hopper?


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368 replies to this topic

#101 OFFLINE   3HaloODST

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:35 PM

I thought Prime Time any time was all based on recording from ONE Transponder all channels, it has nothing to do with recording a set of stations on those stations on that transponder.

Thus, once release and the bug fixed PTAT will work as it knows that transponder to record and it knows what channels in that transponder map to the network for the menu of PTAT.

Now for the big question. Why is the OTA Tuner sooooo late.
I am ready to switch to dish now that AMC is back up. But I want to watch Star Trek on METV (a sub channel) and my local weather (a sub channel) and PBS and the CW in HD, DIsh only has SD


I have heard that Dish is waiting for FCC approval.

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#102 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:43 PM

I thought Prime Time any time was all based on recording from ONE Transponder all channels, it has nothing to do with recording a set of stations on those stations on that transponder.

If I recall correctly, that has been clarified. The four feeds of interest are recorded from that one transponder (per market) not the whole transponder. PTAT has changed from the initial release ... so some things may have been different in the original.

Now for the big question. Why is the OTA Tuner sooooo late.

A good question ... hopefully the answer will be another question: Why WAS the OTA Tuner sooooo late. Although if it is buggy at release the answer to the new question may be self evident.

The OTA and satellite tuners are not the same device. PTAT will not use the OTA tuner ... that is part of the documentation and has been explained. But I see no technical reason why PTAT for satellite feeds cannot co-exist with a separate OTA tuner. It co-exists with two separate satellite tuners.

I have also noticed that a lot of SD markets are set up with the channel flags used for PTAT and AutoHop. Perhaps AutoHop will be available for OTA? One can dream. :)

#103 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:17 PM

I don't even know why anyone would try to connect PTAT in any way with an OTA option. I've never seen or read anything to indicate that you should assume any connection between them.

Given what Dish has said about OTA thus far... I am assuming support for some kind of USB thumb tuner like what you can get for your PC... and if it works like that, I would assume it is like adding an extra tuner... so instead of 3 SAT... you'd have 3 SAT + 1 OTA.

I would also assume that during PTAT you would have 2 SAT, 1 OTA, and then that 3rd SAT tuner continues to record the "big four" LiLs.

A lot of assumptions on my part... but frankly, it seems like assuming anything else doesn't make much sense based on the way Dish has implemented things thus far.

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#104 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:32 PM

How easy you're confusing by simple things ...
Let see what channel's lineup would be with a OTA tuner: is someone ready to show me the list ? In that part where is local channels ? How you would ask the buggy FW to distinguish ABC,NBC,etc between sat and OTA? Same time same program, same channel's numbers ...

#105 OFFLINE   3HaloODST

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:37 PM

How easy you're confusing by simple things ...
Let see what channel's lineup would be with a OTA tuner: is someone ready to show me the list ? In that part where is local channels ? How you would ask the buggy FW to distinguish ABC,NBC,etc between sat and OTA? Same time same program, same channel's numbers ...


The same way the ViPs do it...?

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#106 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:53 PM

How easy you're confusing by simple things ...
Let see what channel's lineup would be with a OTA tuner: is someone ready to show me the list ? In that part where is local channels ? How you would ask the buggy FW to distinguish ABC,NBC,etc between sat and OTA? Same time same program, same channel's numbers ...

Ever notice how via satellite locals are listed in the EPG GUI as -00? For example 16-00?
Ever notice how OTA channels use -01, -02, etc and not -00 for ATSC broadcasts?

Every DISH ViP receiver with an OTA tuner (built in or add in module) manages to display the satellite -00 channels and the OTA -01, -02, etc channels. I'm pretty sure that DISH has it figured out for the Hopper. :rolleyes:

#107 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:11 PM

XiP is other beast, not old ViP ...

#108 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:16 PM

XiP is other beast, not old ViP ...

XiP is not all that different ... especially compared to ViP 922. :D

DISH has been doing integrated OTA ATSC and satellite channels for many years. Why do you think it is impossible on their latest technology? :rolleyes:

#109 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:43 PM

Because of all changes since 922 came, plus a lot of things changed during transition to XiP models [813 and 913].

#110 OFFLINE   3HaloODST

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:59 PM

I say we make a bet (no, not actual money.) I say OTA will come out, you say it won't ;) .

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#111 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:11 PM

Hmm... so Dish has had integrated OTA for years... then made OTA an optional module for the 722K... then carried that forward with the 922 and brand new GUI... then built the Hopper off the 922 GUI...

and we are to believe that suddenly ALL the Echostar engineers suddenly took stupid pills and forgot everything about integrating OTA into receivers for Dish?

Really?

Are we actually having that conversation?

Why would the integration into the EPG be any different than past implementations? Why would you even want it to be? And why would the PTAT routines that are programmed to look at a particular transponder for SAT signals even care whether you have OTA connected or not?

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#112 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 05:23 AM

It will conflict with PTAT because PTAT will not support the ability to record OTA as part of its function, thus no OTA, also seeing as I do have inside knowledge and have already had a beta test sent out to my field office to test it and see if it was a viable possibillitiy for the H/J and found the said conflict. I'm sure if cust complain enough about the OTA the software engineers could work out the quirks to allow a OTA to be useful but in all honesty,


This makes no sense to me at all. What does PTAT have to do with an OTA tuner? We all know PTAT can't work using the OTA tuner because the OTA tuner is a single-channel device. But that does not mean an OTA tuner is useless. As many have pointed out, there are sub channels Dish does not carry, and some people can receive channels from neighboring markets with an antenna that licensing rules prohibit Dish from providing. Personally, I believe I get better picture quality with an antenna than with Dish's HD LiL, though others believe differently.

#113 OFFLINE   patmurphey

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 08:36 AM

The 23 year old "expert" is a DirecTV customer and says he is a Dish installer. We have all experienced some of that knowledge base. I think I'll pass on chaney's assertions.

#114 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 08:58 AM

Hmm... so Dish has had integrated OTA for years... then made OTA an optional module for the 722K... then carried that forward with the 922 and brand new GUI... then built the Hopper off the 922 GUI...

and we are to believe that suddenly ALL the Echostar engineers suddenly took stupid pills and forgot everything about integrating OTA into receivers for Dish?

Really?

Are we actually having that conversation?

Why would the integration into the EPG be any different than past implementations? Why would you even want it to be? And why would the PTAT routines that are programmed to look at a particular transponder for SAT signals even care whether you have OTA connected or not?


Perhaps smart engineers left the company and new 'stupid' replacement (read low-entry) start messing with the integration.

#115 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 08:59 AM

This makes no sense to me at all. What does PTAT have to do with an OTA tuner? We all know PTAT can't work using the OTA tuner because the OTA tuner is a single-channel device. But that does not mean an OTA tuner is useless. As many have pointed out, there are sub channels Dish does not carry, and some people can receive channels from neighboring markets with an antenna that licensing rules prohibit Dish from providing. Personally, I believe I get better picture quality with an antenna than with Dish's HD LiL, though others believe differently.


Because PTA is picking _channels_ from EPG. And it should pick OTA in case if dish is not carry such channel(s).
"We all know" is not right aggregation.

#116 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 09:02 AM

The 23 year old "expert" is a DirecTV customer and says he is a Dish installer. We have all experienced some of that knowledge base. I think I'll pass on chaney's assertions.


I would side with a knowledge from 23 years old customer, than from some old poster here who is know how to switch channel and record some events.

#117 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:26 PM

Because PTA is picking _channels_ from EPG. And it should pick OTA in case if dish is not carry such channel(s).
"We all know" is not right aggregation.


No. PTAT is picking _programs_ from the the transponder that provides the big four LiL, and copying those programs to the PTAT folder. It is not able to record 4 different transponders, because the Hopper only has three tuners, which can only select programming from 3 transponders. Dish is working some magic to make the Hopper record 4 programs from the same transponder at the same time. The only way Dish could provide PTAT with OTA is for the OTA tuner module to have 4 tuners, not the one they've decided the Hopper will get. Thus, it stands to reason that "we all know" PTAT will not work with the OTA module, because the "magic" that permits PTAT to work on satellite will not also work on broadcast systems, vis a vis recording 4 streams with a single tuner.

If Dish does not carry a local big 4 network affiliate, they typically do not provide EPG data for it, so how could PTAT choose a channel from the EPG that is not in the EPG to begin with? What you propose is additional functionality that would be possible to code, but is not a conflict if it is not written.

#118 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:37 PM

Perhaps smart engineers left the company and new 'stupid' replacement (read low-entry) start messing with the integration.


That's a dangerous and libelous statement. Even if you have inside knowledge that you aren't sharing with the rest of us... I wouldn't say something like that as a blanket statement about current employees of any company.

Because PTA is picking _channels_ from EPG. And it should pick OTA in case if dish is not carry such channel(s).
"We all know" is not right aggregation.


Says who? How do you know what PTAT is doing? Putting aside for the moment that I do not believe you are in any way correct with your assertion... on what are you basing this?

Do you have a link or proof to this assertion?

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#119 OFFLINE   Reaper

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:45 PM

That's a dangerous and libelous statement.


Whoa, your response is a little over the top Stewart. It's just one guy's opinion. He wasn't even making an assertion, he stated: "Perhaps..." There is such a thing as freedom of speech after all.

#120 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 02:23 PM

Whoa, your response is a little over the top Stewart. It's just one guy's opinion. He wasn't even making an assertion, he stated: "Perhaps..." There is such a thing as freedom of speech after all.


It's just [well known] one of dirty PR methods to bring down your opponent when you have nothing to say factually.
I'm skipping his buffonades and escapades as a miniscule noise of moscitos around CPU inside of a computer ... hehe




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