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D* doesn't want boxes back


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86 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   boukengreen

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 03:01 PM

Not sure what the proper terminology is, but it's "flash" something. It's also where the OS resides.

Rich


flash memory maybe
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#42 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 08:32 AM

flash memory maybe


Maybe, I dunno.

Rich

#43 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 11:04 AM

I don't think the DVRs have actual flash memory. They have EEPROMs that hold the OS kernel and boot code. I suspect the RID# is there, or in some other PROM on the main board.

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#44 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 12:57 PM

I don't think the DVRs have actual flash memory. They have EEPROMs that hold the OS kernel and boot code. I suspect the RID# is there, or in some other PROM on the main board.


Hear that whooshing sound? That was your post going right over my head... :lol:

I'm not up on that kind of terminology, could you explain it in simpler terms? I don't even know what a kernel is, much less an EEPROM... :nono2:

Rich

#45 OFFLINE   Richierich

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 01:25 PM

Here is a previous Post by Doug Brott that talks about the Flash Memory.

"http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2265179#post2265179"

Here is the part that talks about Flash Memory. "DIRECTV loads the firmware into a temporary flash memory location, then verifies the integrity of the firmware and then moves it to the default flash memory location and restarts the receiver. All of the "stuff" is in memory. All of the programming and internal log information is kept on disk, but it does not change during a restart or new download."
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#46 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 02:18 PM

Most people are familiar with RAM (Random Access Memory), which is read/write, and ROM (Read Only Memory), which is, well, read only. :) RAM is used for volatile storage, and ROM is sued for things you don't want the computer to ever forget, like how to read the boot sectors on a drive.

Strictly speaking, ROM chips are programmed at manufacture, and are unchangeable. To allow upgrades, EPROMS were invented, which could be erased and reprogrammed. But EPROMS needed to be exposed to a UV light to be erased - not too convenient for field updates. So, EEPROMS were developed, which can be erased by applying the right voltage to the right pins. ROMs, EPROMs and EEPROMs are all non-volatile - they require no power to retain their code.

Flash memory is a later form of EEPROM. In the industry, there is a convention to reserve the term EEPROM to byte-wise erasable memories compared to block-wise erasable flash memories. EEPROM takes more die area than flash memory for the same capacity because each cell usually needs both a read, write and erase transistor, while in flash memory the erase circuits are shared by large blocks of cells.

I suspect the DVRs use traditional EEPROMs because that is more common when executable code is being stored. But, in the end, it is a very technical distinction.

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#47 OFFLINE   Dazed & Confused

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 04:03 PM

My original HD receiver (HR20-100) is still going today,and is by far better than the POS HR22 I have in the bedroom. It gets a little cranky from time to time, but I am just praying it lasts until the 22's & 23's have also been flushed out of the system.
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#48 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 07:35 AM

Most people are familiar with RAM (Random Access Memory), which is read/write, and ROM (Read Only Memory), which is, well, read only. :) RAM is used for volatile storage, and ROM is sued for things you don't want the computer to ever forget, like how to read the boot sectors on a drive.

Strictly speaking, ROM chips are programmed at manufacture, and are unchangeable. To allow upgrades, EPROMS were invented, which could be erased and reprogrammed. But EPROMS needed to be exposed to a UV light to be erased - not too convenient for field updates. So, EEPROMS were developed, which can be erased by applying the right voltage to the right pins. ROMs, EPROMs and EEPROMs are all non-volatile - they require no power to retain their code.

Flash memory is a later form of EEPROM. In the industry, there is a convention to reserve the term EEPROM to byte-wise erasable memories compared to block-wise erasable flash memories. EEPROM takes more die area than flash memory for the same capacity because each cell usually needs both a read, write and erase transistor, while in flash memory the erase circuits are shared by large blocks of cells.

I suspect the DVRs use traditional EEPROMs because that is more common when executable code is being stored. But, in the end, it is a very technical distinction.


Thanx, I understood that. I think. :)

Rich

#49 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 07:41 AM

My original HD receiver (HR20-100) is still going today,and is by far better than the POS HR22 I have in the bedroom. It gets a little cranky from time to time, but I am just praying it lasts until the 22's & 23's have also been flushed out of the system.


Interesting user name. I've felt like that since the advent of the 20-700s in 2006. In fact, I'm still amazed that some folks still have 20-100s that are running. I've never had one that worked.

It's gonna take a long time to get the 21 series out of the warehouses and into dumpsters (or wherever they go to die). I think.

Rich

#50 OFFLINE   makaiguy

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 03:46 PM

My trusty old HR20-700's hard drive finally bit the dust. Was replaced under the protection plan, and as long as I was at it, I had them roll a truck and upgrade me to SWM, Whole Home, and Cinema Connection Kit. Best deal I could talk them into was no equipment charge for the upgrade, and paid only installation ($50-something). To get this deal I had to order the whole home upgrade including two HD receivers I didn't want, then just have the installers put the two receivers back in the truck. Strange way to do it, but what the heck.

As the replacement receiver I received a new HR24-500 (much better looking on the equipment shelves). Anyway, the reason for the post: The installers did take the old HR20-700 away with them.
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#51 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 07:31 AM

My trusty old HR20-700's hard drive finally bit the dust. Was replaced under the protection plan, and as long as I was at it, I had them roll a truck and upgrade me to SWM, Whole Home, and Cinema Connection Kit. Best deal I could talk them into was no equipment charge for the upgrade, and paid only installation ($50-something). To get this deal I had to order the whole home upgrade including two HD receivers I didn't want, then just have the installers put the two receivers back in the truck. Strange way to do it, but what the heck.

As the replacement receiver I received a new HR24-500 (much better looking on the equipment shelves). Anyway, the reason for the post: The installers did take the old HR20-700 away with them.


If the 20-700 was leased, it probably doesn't matter, but they should have left it with you. If it was owned, you should have kept it, that does matter as they are still easy to sell on eBay and CL.

Rich

#52 OFFLINE   makaiguy

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 05:33 PM

If the 20-700 was leased, it probably doesn't matter, but they should have left it with you. If it was owned, you should have kept it, that does matter as they are still easy to sell on eBay and CL.

No, it was leased, so when DirecTV's reps wanted to take it I figured it was their right.
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#53 OFFLINE   steinmeg

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 06:05 PM

Amazing. They don't want a box back they never should have made in the first place.... :lol:

Rich

Yes, but remember it was the only one that had the extra port for an off air antenna. Now you need an additional attachment( AM 21) to get the off air channels, which come in handy when D goes down......

#54 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 06:21 AM

Yes, but remember it was the only one that had the extra port for an off air antenna. Now you need an additional attachment( AM 21) to get the off air channels, which come in handy when D goes down......


Rich was referring to the HR21, which did require a AM21 for off-air reception. Only the HR20 had a built in off-air receiver. The HR20 was a great unit. It was faster than the later units, until the advent of the HR24. We only replaced our HR20 a couple of weeks ago, mainly because we felt we were tempting fate to start over building up a collection of recordings on it.

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#55 OFFLINE   west99999

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 09:56 PM

If the 20-700 was leased, it probably doesn't matter, but they should have left it with you. If it was owned, you should have kept it, that does matter as they are still easy to sell on eBay and CL.

Rich


No he should not have left it. If a tech replaces a receiver they are suppose to take the old one no matter what model it is. Just because it isnt refurbished doesnt mean some of the parts cant be recycled which is what they do with old outdated receivers and aslo DTV wants the access card back.

#56 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:50 AM

No he should not have left it. If a tech replaces a receiver they are suppose to take the old one no matter what model it is. Just because it isnt refurbished doesnt mean some of the parts cant be recycled which is what they do with old outdated receivers and aslo DTV wants the access card back.


One more time: D* IS NOT RECOVERING 20-700S OR 20-100S. CAN I MAKE THAT ANY CLEARER?

I think that's the closest I've come to a "rant" in quite a while... :lol:

Rich

#57 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 02:39 PM

Rich, if the tech doing the service call goes to take it, you think we have any right to stop them unless the unit was truly owned in the 1st place? Chill out a little there bud.

#58 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 06:17 PM

Rich, if the tech doing the service call goes to take it, you think we have any right to stop them unless the unit was truly owned in the 1st place? Chill out a little there bud.


I've had to explain to Techs and a supervisor twice in the last month that the 20s weren't recoverable. Both times they called to confirm that they should leave my leased 20-700s with me and twice they were told to leave them. Takes a while for the word to get out in our little world and in D*'s little world. Always confusion where there is little communication. So, yes, I did think I had the right to stop them and both times the guys apologized. Don't know what I'm ever gonna do with a leased 20-700, but, at least, I know where they are.

Rich

#59 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:29 PM

There are going to be liability issues here. You can't just throw them away due to the nature of the components, just like you can't put old pc's in the trash. If they are not recovering them to be refurbed, then at the very least they should be collecting them to be destroyed. You can't sell them on because they essentially are being de-commisioned at the time the tech replaces them, etc....If its being replaced by another model, due to getting say a 24, or 34, give it to the tech to dispose of. Especially if its broken.

#60 OFFLINE   wahooq

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:36 PM

Rich.... non-recoverable doesnt mean that the techs wont take them. They will and are supposed to....non-recoverable just means you wont get charged for not returning them. Remember....even though they are non-recoverable doesn't mean that you own them. You cant sell them ....
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