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2012 - 2013 NFL Discussion Thread


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315 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   JACKIEGAGA

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 09:00 AM

I thought the replacement refs did a pretty good job...it's not like the regular refs get everything right either!

Some confusion at the end of the Seahawks-Cardinals gave Seattle an extra timeout, but it wound up having no effect. Also, the Packers had about six 'blocks in the back' on Cobb's punt return TD, but as I said, the regular refs missed calls too.

All in all, it wasn't bad and hopefully will get better!


Sandra


Agreed overall the Refs did a good job.

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#22 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 09:07 AM

I heard a statistic today 7 out 10 teams who win in week one make the playoffs.


Cool! So, that must mean the Niners are one of the seven, and the Pack is one of the three! ::eek2::lol:

Now, how about the Giants and Jets, too!
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#23 ONLINE   MysteryMan

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 09:15 AM

Cool! So, that must mean the Niners are one of the seven, and the Pack is one of the three! ::eek2::lol:

Now, how about the Giants and Jets, too!


49ers Vs Packers was the best of the three games I watched. I had no doubt what the outcome would be. Unless they are plagued with injuries SF will go the distance and into the playoffs. Then again my favorite team (NY Giants) are noted for slow starts and wining finishes.

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#24 OFFLINE   djlong

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 12:21 PM

Refs only really blew 2 calls in the Patriots/Titans game. One was a pretty blatant pass interference non-call in the end zone that turned what should have been a 1st & 10 on the 2 into what ended up as a field goal. Now, maybe it was because the receiver was cutting back - McCourty pretty much ran into him without looking at/for the ball - but that's still interference according to the rulebook (And I'm a Patriots fan saying this).

There was another less-obvious interference non-call later in the game but that didn't matter much. The Patriots mostly had their way after the first 5 minutes of the game.

#25 ONLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 01:06 AM

As far as I can tell... the only call blown that you could say is one the regular officials wouldn't have blown... was probably that "bonus" time-out that Seattle got vs Arizona.

What's funny... everyone is talking about granting that timeout... but really, the error that happened was on an earlier play... the one where they should have lost a timeout to an injury but didn't... so *that* is actually where the mistake happened.

At the point of calling the "last" timeout, Seattle had already been told they still had one remaining... so everything from that point was ok... the problem occurred much earlier when they weren't charged for one like they were supposed to.

Now... Coach Carroll could have been doing some gamesmanship on TV... but if we are going to blame the refs, we have to blame him and his staff too... because they aren't new to the NFL like the refs this year... so ZERO excuse for Carroll not knowing the rules and knowing he was really out of timeouts.

Carroll's comments made it seem like he thought he should have had one... so he was just as wrong and made the same mistake as the refs did.

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#26 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 04:03 AM

There will always be missed or blown calls but with these refs they're extreme. Most of the time you can argue it both ways. However these refs are just missing things that are obvious and even on replays they get it wrong. Cobb's TD return for instance when they picked up the flag for block in the back. They may have called the wrong person for it but then in the replay there was an obvious one. On all scoring plays the entire play is review able and they missed it again.
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#27 ONLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 05:24 AM

There will always be missed or blown calls but with these refs they're extreme. Most of the time you can argue it both ways. However these refs are just missing things that are obvious and even on replays they get it wrong. Cobb's TD return for instance when they picked up the flag for block in the back. They may have called the wrong person for it but then in the replay there was an obvious one. On all scoring plays the entire play is review able and they missed it again.


The entire play is reviewable... but they can't call a penalty that they didn't call before. Otherwise, on almost every reviewable play they could probably call "holding" on a lineman... and they don't want to get into that can of worms.

So... review replay has never been able to result in a flag that wasn't dropped being dropped.

So, if the refs screw up and call it wrong... replay can't be used to do anything but pick up that flag... it can't be used to drop another flag elsewhere.

That doesn't defend missing the block in the back... just explaining how replay can't fix that kind of mistake.

This happens a LOT, even with the regular refs.

So... my grading of the replacement refs has a lot to do with how they perform based on comparison to my memory of regular refs in the past.

Remember the regular refs make a lot of these kind of mistakes too... and games have been lost.

As for picking on stupid ref mistakes... Remember a few years ago when the regular refs screwed up the coin toss in an overtime game? The ref got the call on a coin toss wrong! That's about as silly of a mistake as you can get... and I didn't see anything on that level with the replacement refs this weekend.

Yeah, they goofed a lot on the pre-season... but they cleaned all that up it looks like to me.

I actually think the NFL should cough up the money and pay the regular refs... but all things considered, I can't argue that these replacements did a bad job.

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#28 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 08:18 AM

The entire play is reviewable... but they can't call a penalty that they didn't call before. Otherwise, on almost every reviewable play they could probably call "holding" on a lineman... and they don't want to get into that can of worms.


I can understand not getting into minor infractions on a review, but major, potentially game changing ones??

Is this a written rule, or just established practice?
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#29 ONLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 07:58 PM

I can understand not getting into minor infractions on a review, but major, potentially game changing ones??

Is this a written rule, or just established practice?


I couldn't find the current rules... but from the 2011 rulebook at NFL.com, the pertinent section is:

"Note: Non-reviewable plays include but are not limited to:
1. Status of the clock
2. Proper down
3. Penalty administration
4. Runner ruled down by defensive contact (not involving fumbles)
5. Forward progress not relating to first down or goal line
6. Recovery of a loose ball that does not involve a boundary line or the end zone.
7. Field-goal or Try attempts that cross above either upright without touching anything.
8. Inadvertent Whistle"

So unless they changed it... they specifically wrote in that you can't use replay to administer penalties. Curiously, that also means they shouldn't be able to NOT enforce a called penalty as a result of replay.

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#30 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 08:41 PM

Wow! And thank you!

I would have breezed past "Administer Penalties" as to how they were handled, rather than the somewhat outdated use of "administer" to mean "give out".

Among the things on my to do list is to download and read said NFL rules, and the vehicle code for the state of CA.... wonder which will be the tougher read? :grin:
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#31 ONLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 08:32 AM

Yeah... I have to think they will re-visit this at some point.

I get why (as we discussed) they don't want to use replay to hand out holding penalties or various other things that might be present more than half of the time and are subjective anyway...

But, much like they do now review all scoring and all ruled-turnover plays... I would like to see them be able to rule on SOME other penalty situations.

Like... if there are too many men on the field (I think college replay can be used to count players and issue that penalty unless I'm remembering wrong).

OR in the case of the block in the back, you should be able to see this and issue OR recall a penalty if you can clearly see someone did or did not block in the back. That's not subjective, you either blocked in the back or did not...

Pass interference, however, has a subjective component... so I wouldn't want that to be reviewable... much like the old force-out rule (now gone anyway) wasn't reviewable.

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#32 OFFLINE   JACKIEGAGA

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 07:44 PM

Nice fake FG by the Packers

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#33 OFFLINE   Carl Spock

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 10:33 PM

Go Pack Go !!!

1-1, baby!

Get that perfect season BS off our back.



:D ;)
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#34 ONLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 10:06 AM

I'm surprised... Green Bay looked pretty bad on Sunday... Chicago looked pretty good...

What a reversal of fortune in 4 days.

I'm not so much surprised by the Packers victory as I am the ineptitude of Chicago... I expected a close/competitive game, and though I did pick Chicago... I wasn't expecting a rout.

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#35 OFFLINE   coldsteel

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 11:00 AM

So how could they force that 12th Man penalty on Chicago, Stewart?
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#36 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 12:52 PM

Pack is Back.

Cutler still the most over-rated QB in the NFL.

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#37 ONLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 01:05 PM

So how could they force that 12th Man penalty on Chicago, Stewart?


I fell asleep during the game... seriously... so you'll have to help me out here.

IF you're referring to my earlier conversation on replay... Did they use replay to call a penalty?

IF so... then either they broke the rules to do so OR the rule has been changed since 2011. I couldn't find anything more current on the NFL Web site than 2011 for the rulebook... so I can't say if something has changed since then.

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#38 OFFLINE   JACKIEGAGA

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 04:19 PM

Tough week 2 for the Refs

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#39 ONLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 04:23 PM

Looks to me like the single most problematic call has been with pass interference. We had a LOT called in week 1... and now in week 2 it looked like some teams were getting away with murder.

I would chalk that up to inexperienced refs not familiar with the rule and having to get a feel for it... then course correcting too far the other direction.

IF the strike lasts all season, then I would expect these refs to eventually get more calls right than wrong, and then next season it will be much harder to tell the difference between them and the experienced refs.

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#40 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 04:29 PM

What chaps my hide more than anything is spearing or other flagrant, dangerous conduct, especially in the end zone after the touchdown is fact.

Is there a mechanism in the NFL to review game films and levy fines after the fact? Is that info publicly available?
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