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2012 - 2013 NFL Discussion Thread


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315 replies to this topic

#81 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 11:03 AM

hdtvfan0001, you're lucky you didn't bet me. The NFL said the wrong call was made but the decision of the refs at the time remains.

I'm really sorry I was right.

That bet was highly unlikely from the get go...and you cited good reasons why....the NFL has a strong history of fighting to say they were wrong - and when they do - they concede and say nothing will change.

That press release won't do anything to calm the immense negativity toward both the rent-a-refs or the league itself for how this was handled. The effects of this disaster and break in credibility will be long and measurable no doubt.
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#82 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 11:11 AM

Okay, I have multiple problems with this. First, every review of a catch is possession.


For simultaneous possession plays, review is not allowed to change them.

Second, the NFL has never put in writing what specifically is and is not reviewable and it seems to change from week to week..

It actually is in writing. ESPN afterward discussed the rule and the replay conditions.

Fourth, this year, they have ignored ALL the replay rules and have reviewed things without challenges outside the last two minutes that were not scores or turnovers, including penalties.

That's yet another sign the current officials aren't doing things correctly. Numerous times this season they have reviewed situations that are not reviewable. This is another reason why the real ones ought to come back.

This year has proven what I have known about the NFL all along...they make it up as they go along.

This would appear to be the case in a league that has had to damage control every week.

FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


#83 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 11:15 AM

For simultaneous possession plays, review is not allowed to change them.

It actually is in writing. ESPN afterward discussed the rule and the replay conditions.

That's yet another sign the current officials aren't doing things correctly. Numerous times this season they have reviewed situations that are not reviewable. This is another reason why the real ones ought to come back.

This would appear to be the case in a league that has had to damage control every week.


The NFL disagrees with you. Says it is reviewable. They just denied the actual visual evidence.
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#84 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 11:16 AM

The NFL has made their decision. Here's the press release.

They say offensive pass interference should have been called on Golden Tate against Sam Shields. That should have ended the game with Green Bay winning.

But that is not reviewable. The non-call stands.

A simultaneous catch in the end zone is reviewable. The NFL stands behind the call as made and reviewed. It will not be reversed.

The result of last night's decision is affirmed. Seattle wins the game, 14-12.

hdtvfan0001, you're lucky you didn't bet me. The NFL said the wrong call was made but the decision of the refs at the time remains.

I'm really sorry I was right.


Interesting, considering that recently retired NFL Referee Gerry Austin explained, as did a current locked out official on ESPN Radio this morning, such possession calls are not subject to replay review. Did the NFL change things when someone wasn't looking? ;)

FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


#85 OFFLINE   Carl Spock

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 11:38 AM

The NFL does make the distinction that simultaneous possession calls are not reviewable on the field of play but are in the endzone. That may be a new refinement to the rule.

Or as tonyd79 said, they are making it up as they go along.
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#86 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 11:50 AM

I don't doubt it!

FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


#87 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 11:57 AM

This was another situation where we had a bad call compounded by a flaw in the review rules.

I'm still amazed that we have flaws like that in the rules, though... To me, that is just as bad as the replacement ref situation... Why have a rule that all scoring plays will be reviewed BUT have certain aspects that are not reviewable?

We aren't talking about matters of opinion in this case either... This wasn't simultaneous possession... this was one person having clear possession, and then the other person sticking an arm in and then on the ground trying to take the ball away. Heck, in other games we saw plays just like this one overturned... you know "fumbles" where the player was on the ground and the other team ripped the ball out after he was down.

I actually get how the refs might not have seen this correctly in real-time. I admit, watching in real time my first thought was, wow... he caught it... for a touchdown... but upon replay, it was infinitely clear to me that it was an interception.

That said... we unfortunately have the muddy water that neither team really can say they played their best. Yes, it was a defensive struggle... but both teams had other opportunities to make this not a final-play game decider.

But absolutely... this is a play that they really (if they care about integrity of the game) should have overturned today.

In most situations, you can't overturn egregious plays because other parts of the game are effected and you don't know if it 100% changed the outcome... like that pass interference that should have been called...

But on the literal final play of the game... this was a final play one way or the other. AND if it had been called an interception, even die-hard Seattle fans wouldn't have had a gripe after seeing the replay.

So... this is a prime example of something the NFL could fix... but I knew they wouldn't. I just hope this doesn't change the playoff teams measurably by the end of the season.

I don't think it will bounce Green Bay, but it might decide seeding... and it might be a win that gets some other team bounced.

I still remember that game (John Clayton referred to it as well) where Testaverde for the Jets got a touchdown but never crossed the plain. That was bad enough, and with regular officials and NO replay that season... but the fallout was more... that year, that game meant the Jets got into the playoffs over Cleveland... and Cleveland fired their coach that year. So that year that one mistake cost a playoff spot AND a job for a coach.

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#88 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:01 PM

I don't think the NFL should have overturned the call and changed the game's outcome. That would have made things worse and would have, IMHO, further damaged the integrity of the game.

FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


#89 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:10 PM

So this doesn't make sense. From the NFL:

The referee never conferred with the two officials in the end zone and went to a video review, which, by rule, could not overturn the simultaneous possession and could only determine if the pass was incomplete.


Way to clear things up! Not.

FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


#90 OFFLINE   Carl Spock

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:23 PM

Anybody know when Roger Goodell's contract is up?

After basically losing the players lockout fight in 2011 - the only big thing the owners got was a continuation of franchise tag on players - he is now in charge of this debacle. The owners are going to get so much grief from their teams and fans this next seven days, I'll bet the referees are back by the 6th week. If Goodell's contract is up after the season, he's gone.

Protect the sheild? It's looking pretty tarnished.
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#91 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:25 PM

I think he just got an extension/renewal recently, to be honest with you.

FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


#92 OFFLINE   Carl Spock

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:33 PM

#%$& !!!
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#93 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:41 PM

From what I've heard, the owners really like him.

FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


#94 ONLINE   JACKIEGAGA

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 02:04 PM

The NFL has made their decision. Here's the press release.

They say offensive pass interference should have been called on Golden Tate against Sam Shields. That should have ended the game with Green Bay winning.

But that is not reviewable. The non-call stands.

A simultaneous catch in the end zone is reviewable. The NFL stands behind the call as made and reviewed. It will not be reversed.


They are calling it the Inaccurate Reception on ESPN

This press release is a total sham the NFL just wants to stand by the Refs.

If that happen to Jerry Jones, Mara's, Arthur Blank , Robert Kraft the would be screaming their heads off. We haven't heard a peep from them because they are so dam greedy for money.
Goodell is the owners puppet he has no say with the owners. If this was Pete Rozelle would say "Come on let's get something done it's bad for the sport"

Sorry Packer fans.


The NFL should be apologizing to the fans today.

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#95 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 02:37 PM

I haven't had any problem with him up until this situation. I loved how he took care of the Saints.
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#96 OFFLINE   bnwrx

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 03:09 PM

Lost in all this discussion about good call/bad call/missed calls and less experienced officials on the NFL fields is the offer currently on the table for the locked out officials. I read today that the locked out officials currently average $149,000 per season($9,312 per game). The NFL has proposed an ANNUAL 7% increase over 7 years that would bring the average pay to $189,000($11,812 per game) by 2018. When was the last time you got annual raises of 7%! The NFL also wants to include hiring an additional 20 or so refs. They would be used in cases where current officials would be suspended a game for "Bad Calls". Also current officials receive a pension for their service to the league. Jeeeez people, think about these numbers for a part time job and how much more the locked out guys want? You can't just give and give and give. It is a shame that Green Bay had to lose that game, it was a bad/wrong call, no doubt in my mind, but there is a bigger picture here. Thankfully the NFL is playing the games, they could have decided to suspend all games until a resolution is done. Until that time we'll just have to bear with these replacement guys until the regular ref's come to some common sense. My opinion of course, but not a bad gig if you can get it.....

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#97 OFFLINE   TheRatPatrol

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 03:16 PM

Lost in all this discussion about good call/bad call/missed calls and less experienced officials on the NFL fields is the offer currently on the table for the locked out officials. I read today that the locked out officials currently average $149,000 per season($9,312 per game). The NFL has proposed an ANNUAL 7% increase over 7 years that would bring the average pay to $189,000($11,812 per game) by 2018. When was the last time you got annual raises of 7%! The NFL also wants to include hiring an additional 20 or so refs. They would be used in cases where current officials would be suspended a game for "Bad Calls". Also current officials receive a pension for their service to the league. Jeeeez people, think about these numbers for a part time job and how much more the locked out guys want? You can't just give and give and give. It is a shame that Green Bay had to lose that game, it was a bad/wrong call, no doubt in my mind, but there is a bigger picture here. Thankfully the NFL is playing the games, they could have decided to suspend all games until a resolution is done. Until that time we'll just have to bear with these replacement guys until the regular ref's come to some common sense. My opinion of course, but not a bad gig if you can get it.....


Where can we sign up to be refs? I'm all in for that pay. ;)

#98 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 06:11 PM

I think that anger towards Roger Goodell is misdirected. He is quite literally in most things a puppet to the owners. I mean, he is directly employed by them to moderate and represent their interests... so IF he was doing something other than what the owners wanted, he would be fired... and in this case, you know he is doing exactly what the owners want.

I have to think even he, though, doesn't like how this is going and wishes the owners would get their top half out of their lower back half and fix this.

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#99 OFFLINE   Lord Vader

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 06:37 PM

He is only doing the bidding of the owners on this. The owners are deadset against the NFL officials in this. Even some owners whose teams have been the victims of these refs (that'd be just about all the teams by now) are so stubborn that they will support the League and Goodell regardless of how badly it affects any team, even their own.

How sad.

FAITH: I find the lack of it disturbing.

Opinions are my own but should be those of all Americans, who would be much better off intellectually, psychologically, and emotionally if that were the case.


#100 OFFLINE   Carl Spock

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 06:42 PM

Stewart, good point about the relationship between Goodell and the owners. Just like in baseball, the commissioner has to serve his masters, the owners.

Goodell has been in charge of two public relations disasters, though, and the owners rely on him to keep the league looking good in the public eye. The league got away with the first one, the players lockout in 2011. By settling during the preseason, by the time the games started, the lockout was mostly forgotten by the public.

This dispute may be different. Because of last night's disaster during a high profile Monday Night Football game, the lockout has become an issue outside of the sports world. Even the president commented today that he hopes the lockout is settled soon. It is Goodell's job to make the league look good and it certainly doesn't look good today.

Assuming the lockout is resolved in the next week or two, which it could happen because the money involved here is so incredibly small, Goodell and the league will probably not suffer any long term PR consequences.

There is a risk here. When the 1994 baseball strike caused the last three months of the season to be canceled, including the World Series, it took a couple of years for baseball to return to the public's good graces.

If the referees lockout continues and there is a widespread players revolt, the general public, not just sports fans, could get fed up with the NFL very quickly. I read today of players talking about taking a knee on every play, effectively stopping the games. I don't see that happening now but if the lockout is still in effect in week 10, it could happen.

I wouldn't want to be Roger Goodell then.
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