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Guest Message by DevFuse

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HR24 dying - can you tell me which part?


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69 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 02:45 PM

Measure the voltage of a rail...

That would take a minute and you'll know if it PSU or mainboard. You'll not guess but have a knowledge. :lol:

BTW, nice good DMM for such home projects is $5-$10. Only.

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#27 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 06:04 AM

That would take a minute and you'll know if it PSU or mainboard. You'll not guess but have a knowledge. :lol:

BTW, nice good DMM for such home projects is $5-$10. Only.


I've got a huge Fluke, but using it is too much like work... :lol:

Rich

#28 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 09:28 AM

What is the model ? I like those huge display of 286.

#29 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 09:44 AM

What is the model ? I like those huge display of 286.


I dunno, I was given it after my original Fluke exploded because it wasn't properly protected. After the explosion, we had people from Fluke (or whoever makes them) attend the Incident Review and they vowed to make changes to the new Flukes. All our old Flukes were gathered and we got the new Flukes a week or so later. Our law dept. was all over them.

Same thing happened with Bobcats many years later. They used to be wide open in front and a contractor had a three quarter horse electric motor fall out of the scoop and injure his leg. We quickly welded heavy screening on the Bobcats we had on site and I do believe that Bobcat offers the protective screen doors as an option now. Didn't then.

Rich

#30 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 09:52 AM

What is the model ? I like those huge display of 286.


Just checked it, it's a Model 25. I've had it since ~ 1980. Thing's about half as big as a Simpson analog MM. The one that exploded was as long, but very thin and could be carried in my pocket. It was great for tight spaces.

Rich

#31 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 08:04 PM

Really old ... matching his owner. ;)

#32 OFFLINE   dan42353

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 11:36 PM

Do the front panel lights come on when you plug in the 24-200?

Rich


I will re-assemble it, plug it up, and report back.

Thanks all

#33 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 09:06 AM

And measure voltages (rails) - then post here too.

#34 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 09:23 AM

Really old ... matching his owner. ;)


Still works well...much like its owner.... :lol:

I hated lugging that thing around on my tool belt. Still, it works well.

Rich

#35 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 10:49 AM

Good to hear that. Hope next time you'll measure voltages (rails) on any PSU what will comes to your hands: working or not and will post results to teach some "cowboys" to proper method of diagnostic of such devices ;).

#36 OFFLINE   Robert L

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:50 PM

If someone is going to the trouble of measuring voltage coming out of a power supply trying to figure out if its bad. They might as well go ahead and do component level repair instead of searching ebay for a used one. Much cheaper and might actually learn something doing it that way, if they don't make it explode instead.
3- HR20-700, 2-HR24-500, Native on, 5- Networked (wired), FIOS, Slimline dish, Swm-16,HD receiver for music
Various displays & projectors, using HDMI

#37 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 08:58 AM

Good to hear that. Hope next time you'll measure voltages (rails) on any PSU what will comes to your hands: working or not and will post results to teach some "cowboys" to proper method of diagnostic of such devices ;).


I have absolutely no idea what a rail is.... :nono2:

Rich

#38 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:12 AM

It's an engineering term for voltage lines.

#39 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 11:04 AM

It's an engineering term for voltage lines.


That sorta clears things up...sorta.

Rich

#40 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 02:00 PM

That sorta clears things up...sorta.

Rich


Rich, you know how on pc power supplies there is usually a +5v, +12v, sometimes a +3.3v, etc....outputs, those are referred to as rails. Sometimes when a psu goes bad only one of the rails goes bad, say the +12v....

#41 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 08:32 AM

Rich, you know how on pc power supplies there is usually a +5v, +12v, sometimes a +3.3v, etc....outputs, those are referred to as rails. Sometimes when a psu goes bad only one of the rails goes bad, say the +12v....


PC power supplys seem a lot simpler to troubleshoot than the power supplys on the HR24s, but I don't think it really matters (to me, at least), if the front panel lights don't work the PS seems to be bad. I've only replaced 3 boards, but all 3 boards turned dead 24-500s into working 500s. To me a ten minute job to fix something is better than spending hours troubleshooting components.

I've done a lot of troubleshooting and it was always under pressure. Nobody cared what I did as long as I got the equipment running. I just never had time to "fix" a component part.

Appreciate the explanation, that was a good analogy.

Rich

#42 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:02 AM

It's just a couple minutes: using your old good Fluke 25 and measure all 5(!) rails.

It would cut any guess what happened: PSU or main board failed ?

These LED are not for such diagnostics. They could, they could not lite up if PSU is partially dead.

Remember - the LED are controlling by CPU, what is actually need one 3.3V rail, so if +5V or/and +12V is down, you'll see the lights, but your box will not functioning properly.

Perhaps it was just your 'luck' - the model and its PSU are shows consistent point of failures. What would be good to know, but not good enough to spread over to all models and to other particular device.

#43 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:40 AM

It's just a couple minutes: using your old good Fluke 25 and measure all 5(!) rails.

It would cut any guess what happened: PSU or main board failed ?

These LED are not for such diagnostics. They could, they could not lite up if PSU is partially dead.

Remember - the LED are controlling by CPU, what is actually need one 3.3V rail, so if +5V or/and +12V is down, you'll see the lights, but your box will not functioning properly.

Perhaps it was just your 'luck' - the model and its PSU are shows consistent point of failures. What would be good to know, but not good enough to spread over to all models and to other particular device.


I've got a feeling that if the front panel is dead on any of the 24s, the first place to look would be the PS board. Only takes a couple minutes to replace it if you have a good one on hand (and I do). Seems like a sensible approach to me.

One more note, if I can't solder a connection with a blow torch, I don't want to do it. I had several nice soldering irons and other soldering contraptions when I was with the tools and I never used them. Not that I can't solder, I just don't like to do it.

Rich

#44 OFFLINE   bigglebowski

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 05:29 PM

Just wanted to jump into the general discussion of measuring power supplies. Computer power supplies (atx) can be easy to diagnose if you are familiar with shorting the green wire to one of the black wires which is essentially the power on switch for that type of power supply. Otherwise all you would ever have working was a single 5v lead.

While I have repaired my fair share of receivers I havent really opened one since a D12. Even if the "rails" (never heard this term outside of PCs) are labeled that does not mean you will be able to measure them all unless the unit is fully up and working properly. In an "off" state usually there is only either a "stand by voltage" of 5v or 3v, if the lines are labeled one will be referred to as SB since it may have a separate 5v that has more current supply. So a line labeled 12v not working simply means that the "main" board has not given the power supply the command to turn on.

If you know how to "force" the power supply into an on state outside of a receiver or a TV that does not mean under the normal load the 12v will be a stable 12v. Just like your car battery may read close to 12v on a voltmeter but when the heavy duty starter kicks in that voltage drops to a level that will not even spin the starter like in Ford trucks that have heavy duty starter motors.

As P stated earlier I too would lean on the main board being the problem rather than the PS but that is why it really is a guess without actually doing some testing. For me the receivers I fixed over the years the older they were the power supplies were more common the newer ones were almost always the main.

Whats unique in this instance is the device in question is almost never owned by the end user so finding a used one that you can just swap parts out of is rare. Then there is the fact that this is the newest simple DVR, so finding parts to fix HR20 models would be a more likely scenario.

#45 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 05:49 PM

BL,

You bring here little more noise then necessary ... If we will start discuss how PSU working for a eBook then it will be more complicated then you brought from PC world.


FYI, DVR and receiver's PSU are working regardless on/off mode. So the PSU constantly holding all ralis/voltages.

#46 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 07:19 AM

Just wanted to jump into the general discussion of measuring power supplies. Computer power supplies (atx) can be easy to diagnose if you are familiar with shorting the green wire to one of the black wires which is essentially the power on switch for that type of power supply. Otherwise all you would ever have working was a single 5v lead.

While I have repaired my fair share of receivers I havent really opened one since a D12. Even if the "rails" (never heard this term outside of PCs) are labeled that does not mean you will be able to measure them all unless the unit is fully up and working properly. In an "off" state usually there is only either a "stand by voltage" of 5v or 3v, if the lines are labeled one will be referred to as SB since it may have a separate 5v that has more current supply. So a line labeled 12v not working simply means that the "main" board has not given the power supply the command to turn on.

If you know how to "force" the power supply into an on state outside of a receiver or a TV that does not mean under the normal load the 12v will be a stable 12v. Just like your car battery may read close to 12v on a voltmeter but when the heavy duty starter kicks in that voltage drops to a level that will not even spin the starter like in Ford trucks that have heavy duty starter motors.

As P stated earlier I too would lean on the main board being the problem rather than the PS but that is why it really is a guess without actually doing some testing. For me the receivers I fixed over the years the older they were the power supplies were more common the newer ones were almost always the main.

Whats unique in this instance is the device in question is almost never owned by the end user so finding a used one that you can just swap parts out of is rare. Then there is the fact that this is the newest simple DVR, so finding parts to fix HR20 models would be a more likely scenario.


I think the HR20-700s have an integrated PS with the motherboard. Don't remember opening any 21s.

I don't really remember if the 24's PS has any voltage markings on them, I'll look the next time I open one of mine up. They (at least the 24-500s) don't have any voltage markings on them that I can remember. And they connect to the motherboard by many pin connectors. Don't remember seeing any voltage markings on them, either. They're just not like the PC power supplys. Every one of them I've seen had the marking on the wires. Not so on the 24-500s.

Rich

#47 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 08:55 AM

Don't worry Rich, this is pretty standard PSU, integrated or not; usually there are +3.3V/+5V/+9V or +12V, could be +7V, and +20V (for LNBF), also could be OVP line (not a rail, but a signal: +2.5V if it's normal ). You'll get it in no time, baby ! :)

#48 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 09:03 AM

Don't worry Rich, this is pretty standard PSU, integrated or not; usually there are +3.3V/+5V/+9V or +12V, could be +7V, and +20V (for LNBF), also could be OVP line (not a rail, but a signal: +2.5V if it's normal ). You'll get it in no time, baby ! :)


No, I won't. No matter how much you push me, I'm not gonna sit down and dissect a PS. I'd rather just put a good PS in and if that doesn't work, I'll get a replacement. I can't imagine sitting down with that monstrous Fluke and picking apart a PS.... :lol:

Rich

#49 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 09:05 AM

No need make it more complicated then it is. ;)
It will take a couple minutes to check 10 wires total. C'mon !

You don't need "dissect" that !

#50 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 09:16 AM

No need make it more complicated then it is. ;)
It will take a couple minutes to check 10 wires total. C'mon !

You don't need "dissect" that !


Have you seen a 24's PS?

Rich




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