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New, less than stellar install, advice?


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28 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   bbartilson

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 05:28 PM

Not sure if I should post pics in the shame thread, but it's not very nice.

HR24/500 2x H25/700 and Whatever the HD Tivo is, THR-22 I guess.

Unfortunately, the cosmetics of the install are not chief among my concerns.

The real concerns are:

1. There are trees obstructing the view of the 110 satellite. I'm no satellite guy, but I know that trees grow upward - I do not imagine this problem will get better, with LOS trouble potentially spreading to other sats.

2. The installer took my receivers offsite to activate them (to a buddy's house?), as the receivers refused to activate without good signal from all satellites.

Receivers report diag code 43-72-840, 43-72-066, and 43-72-958. I didn't write down what the Tivo says, but it's pissed as well.

So far I'm impressed with the hardware and software, enough that I am willing to explore installing a mast or tower to get the height I need for a proper LOS on the dish.

However, the installer insisted that 110 "is not important" and "they don't use that one anymore". He also was illiterate enough that he couldn't read the word 'interrupt' off the screen when on the phone with his supervisor, so his credibility is about in line with my opinion of his general competence: not good.

Opinions? I can't fancy myself letting all of this slide, but I'm not sure whether 110 "really doesn't matter", or to what level of detail I ought to report this back to dish. Overall, I wouldn't want to subject anyone to the hack job I got for an install, and I'm not picky.

Thanks for any input.

Regards,
Bill

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#2 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 05:52 PM

110 hasn't had anything for us in a long time, so that much is correct.
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#3 OFFLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 05:58 PM

All of your HD signals come from the 99 and 103 sats.

Why don't you read and post the signal strengths of all the sats.

43 says it is a low signal error.

DirecTV customer since 1996 - Current :Slimline 3 SWM,   HR24-100 HDMI to 32" Sharp LED,
HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD


#4 OFFLINE   wallfishman

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 07:30 PM

Not sure if I should post pics in the shame thread, but it's not very nice.

HR24/500 2x H25/700 and Whatever the HD Tivo is, THR-22 I guess.

Unfortunately, the cosmetics of the install are not chief among my concerns.

The real concerns are:

1. There are trees obstructing the view of the 110 satellite. I'm no satellite guy, but I know that trees grow upward - I do not imagine this problem will get better, with LOS trouble potentially spreading to other sats.

2. The installer took my receivers offsite to activate them (to a buddy's house?), as the receivers refused to activate without good signal from all satellites.

Receivers report diag code 43-72-840, 43-72-066, and 43-72-958. I didn't write down what the Tivo says, but it's pissed as well.

So far I'm impressed with the hardware and software, enough that I am willing to explore installing a mast or tower to get the height I need for a proper LOS on the dish.

However, the installer insisted that 110 "is not important" and "they don't use that one anymore". He also was illiterate enough that he couldn't read the word 'interrupt' off the screen when on the phone with his supervisor, so his credibility is about in line with my opinion of his general competence: not good.

Opinions? I can't fancy myself letting all of this slide, but I'm not sure whether 110 "really doesn't matter", or to what level of detail I ought to report this back to dish. Overall, I wouldn't want to subject anyone to the hack job I got for an install, and I'm not picky.

Thanks for any input.

Regards,
Bill


can you post some pics from behind your dish , showing your line of site. and your signal levels. and your are right its only gonna get worse. I cant remember any jobs where 99 - 101 - 103 and 119 all passed but 110 failed. so likely theres more failing than just the 110

#5 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 08:00 PM

Unless you need 119 for local SD stations or are subscribed to a Spanish programming package, a 3-LNB dish that only looks at 99, 101 and 103 would have been the proper choice. The installer should NOT have taken the receivers off-site to activate them, that's cheating.

#6 OFFLINE   texasbrit

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 09:40 PM

Just call DirecTV and ask them to send out a supervisor to look at your install.It is completely dishonest for the installer to move the receivers somewhere else to avoid DirecTV's install verification procedure, which would not have allowed him to activate the receivers with poor signals.

#7 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 10:24 PM

That installer should be fired. That's terrible that he took them elsewhere to activate them. Don't allow this to stand, as others have said. That's just ridiculous...

#8 OFFLINE   bbartilson

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 04:41 PM

I live downtown, so there isn't much space in between the houses. I guess I can throw a ladder up and get real LOS pics if they will help.

Signal strength is good on everything except the 110.

There is no spacious difference in numbers between tuners on a receiver, transponders per satellite, or for that matter, between receivers. So I only wrote down values for T1 of the HR24:

SWM 100
99 92
101 96
110 62
119 96
99(s) not found
103(s) not found
103(ca) 90
103(cb) 94

Here are the best of the pics and the trees I could get without climbing the ladder.

The shot of the side of the house is where the cable wasn't dressed at all. I'm not usually picky, and would dress the wire myself if I was gonna be, but there isn't enough slack for me to clean it up.

The last pic is the (rather neat) Dish Network install. They guy who did that install was righteous, and quick. If you didn't read the other thread, the guy who did my DTV install showed up at 8:40AM and left for the day after 6PM.

Thanks for all the input.
Regards,
Bill

Attached Thumbnails

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#9 OFFLINE   peano

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 05:46 PM

The trees are not an issue. 103 signals look good. What is 99©?

#10 OFFLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 07:33 PM

Those trees look like they are in the way, especially in pic 2, 3, 4 and 6. It is difficult to tell with the dish way up there.
Is pic 6 of the Dish networks dish ? It appears to be in a much lower and different part of the house ?

Have you been to dishpointer.com ?
You can type in your address,
Go down the page to the drop down for the satellite choices, move way down the page to the multi sat, choose the DirecTV 99, 101, 103, 110 and 119.
Go back up to the address and click on Go. On the right side of the page is a check box. If you check that it will show you where your obstructions are.

I would have them come back.

However, if they come back and the trees are in the LOS of the dish, they might terminate the account. Others on here will know for sure.

DirecTV customer since 1996 - Current :Slimline 3 SWM,   HR24-100 HDMI to 32" Sharp LED,
HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD


#11 OFFLINE   bbartilson

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:28 PM

What is 99©?


Don't know how I missed that one. 99© is 96

#12 OFFLINE   bbartilson

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:39 PM

Is pic 6 of the Dish networks dish ? It appears to be in a much lower and different part of the house ?

Have you been to dishpointer.com ?

I would have them come back.

However, if they come back and the trees are in the LOS of the dish, they might terminate the account. Others on here will know for sure.


Yup , pic 6 is my other dish. It's on the front of the house, and is about 10 feet lower. I was hoping he'd go right next to the other antenna.

Haven't been to dish-pointer, did not know of it. Will go and report back.

Would rather have them terminate than go through continuing connection hell. I think the signal numbers clearly demonstrate that there is no obstruction for most of the sats.

#13 OFFLINE   davring

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:55 PM

With numbers in the 90's on both 99C & 103C you should have no trouble with your system.
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#14 OFFLINE   wahooq

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:40 PM

95 or above to pass Install Requirements I believe (could be mistaken)

Edited by wahooq, 08 September 2012 - 09:41 PM.
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#15 OFFLINE   funnyfarm299

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 01:28 AM

95 or above to pass Install Requirements I believe (could be mistaken)


I've been as low as an 88 on some transponders and still passed.
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Bonus: 73" mitsubishi 73742, HR24, SnapAV HDMI balun

#16 ONLINE   trh

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 06:02 AM

My one concern over your new dish location is possible snow build up and getting to the dish to clean it off if required. Some here have suggested a super soaker water gun filled with warm water. But from the pictures, not sure if that would work in your case. Was snow ever a problem with your other dish?

#17 OFFLINE   dielray

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 08:21 AM

1. There are trees obstructing the view of the 110 satellite. I'm no satellite guy, but I know that trees grow upward - I do not imagine this problem will get better, with LOS trouble potentially spreading to other sats.

It will cause you future problems when the trees grow further.

So far I'm impressed with the hardware and software, enough that I am willing to explore installing a mast or tower to get the height I need for a proper LOS on the dish.

It would be difficult to get a tech to touch a tower. If it can't be put in with a DirecTV approved mast, it isn't supposed to go in.

However, the installer insisted that 110 "is not important" and "they don't use that one anymore". He also was illiterate enough that he couldn't read the word 'interrupt' off the screen when on the phone with his supervisor, so his credibility is about in line with my opinion of his general competence: not good.

The 110 is not used for anything currently.

Opinions? I can't fancy myself letting all of this slide, but I'm not sure whether 110 "really doesn't matter", or to what level of detail I ought to report this back to dish. Overall, I wouldn't want to subject anyone to the hack job I got for an install, and I'm not picky.

You can call in and report the problem, and ask to have another tech out to find a better location. Looking at your pictures, it looks like there might not be a better location, but a tech should be able to let you know that.

Yup , pic 6 is my other dish. It's on the front of the house, and is about 10 feet lower. I was hoping he'd go right next to the other antenna.

It looks like you have an eastern arch Dishnet dish which points further east than the DirecTV dish.

Would rather have them terminate than go through continuing connection hell. I think the signal numbers clearly demonstrate that there is no obstruction for most of the sats.

How many times are the cables spliced outside? Are the splices at least horizontal with the cables sloping downward from the splice with you unable to loosen the connection by hand? Each splice is a potential failure point which can let water get in and kill the cable. It is the most common cause of single receiver outage service calls.
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#18 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 08:24 AM

95 or above to pass Install Requirements I believe (could be mistaken)


I've been as low as an 88 on some transponders and still passed.

"95 or 88" is coming from either a receiver's screen, or a non AIM meter, but isn't the best way to determine pass/fail for the IV test.

I did some testing with the AIM and attenuating the signal to the LNB.
The first thing to fail the IV test was SNR/CNR. Output power would pass long after the SNR failed.
The pass/fail values vary between SATs too.
101 would fail with a 10.5 dB SNR & pass with a 10.7 dB SNR, while 99 would pass with a 9+ dB SNR.
I ended up quite surprised by the results, as I'd expected the output power to have had more to due with the pass/fail than it did.
A.K.A VOS

#19 OFFLINE   dielray

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 08:45 AM

"95 or 88" is coming from either a receiver's screen, or a non AIM meter, but isn't the best way to determine pass/fail for the IV test.

I did some testing with the AIM and attenuating the signal to the LNB.
The first thing to fail the IV test was SNR/CNR. Output power would pass long after the SNR failed.
The pass/fail values vary between SATs too.
101 would fail with a 10.5 dB SNR & pass with a 10.7 dB SNR, while 99 would pass with a 9+ dB SNR.
I ended up quite surprised by the results, as I'd expected the output power to have had more to due with the pass/fail than it did.


I'm fairly sure the IV test is different between the AIM and the receiver. The AIM checks SNR, Power Level, and LNB Offset. The receivers only check the bit error rate(which is directly proportional to SNR).

A way to verify this would be to attenuate after the LNB until the AIM passes SNR but fails power level and then activate the receiver. When I get some spare time on a job I'll have to do that check.
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#20 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 08:59 AM

I'm fairly sure the IV test is different between the AIM and the receiver. The AIM checks SNR, Power Level, and LNB Offset. The receivers only check the bit error rate(which is directly proportional to SNR).

A way to verify this would be to attenuate after the LNB until the AIM passes SNR but fails power level and then activate the receiver. When I get some spare time on a job I'll have to do that check.

It would be good to see what you find.

The receivers are doing more than reading bit error rates in the setup test.
We've had reports of dish alignment errors with good SAT screen numbers.

After the AIM tests, it "does seem" like the CNR is getting measured by the receivers.
A.K.A VOS




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