Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo

DirecTV's Manual Record implementation sucks


  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   drill

drill

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 144 posts
Joined: Jun 28, 2006

Posted 16 September 2012 - 07:48 PM

I have posted on this in the past, and I have seen other people complain about the manual record implementation. And I have seen lots of people try to say it isn't broken. Well, I just hit the case that bugs me so much about it, and I think it is broken.

here is the scenario:

Last week, I setup a Manual record for every sunday starting at 8:15PM for 4.5 hours. The goal is to record sunday night football. The manual record is #1 in the priority list.

Tonight, the NBC pregame runs from 7pm to 8:20pm in the guide. The football game starts at 8:20. (I swear the game started at 8:15 last week).

The manual recording spans multiple shows in the guide. I believe the DVR picks the first in the list as the target of the recording. in this case, the pregame (Sunday Night Football in America) is picked as the target.

There weren't any late games that were close that i was concerned about watching, so at 6:40pm, I pulled up the guide and navigated to the pregame show and hit record.

At about 7:15, I checked the TODO list. The manual recording for tonight's game wasn't listed. There is still an entry for NEXT sunday's game. but tonight's game is gone.

When I hit record for the pregame in the guide (from 7pm to 8:20pm), I believe the software looked at my TODO list and thought I was changing my Manual Recording. So the DVR canceled the manual recording that was scheduled to start at 8:15 and run for 4.5 hours, and replaced it with a recording from 7 to 8:20.

after 8:15, I checked the recording history. the manual recording shows up in the "history" as canceled with reason "This showing was canceled because it is already included in your series recording.(41)".

I think this clearly proves that DirecTV's Manual Recording implementation is using guide data to infer what is being recorded. And then the software is scheduling based on that. The DVR should NOT use the guide data for Manual Recordings except possibly giving the recording a "title".

A manual record should be stupid. If I tell the DVR to record on channel Z starting at time X and record for time Y, the DVR should do it. It should not try to map that recording to guide data. It should not try to be "smart" and infer what I am trying to record. It should not care what is in the guide data for this time. It should not care if the guide data changes. The DVR should record channel Z at time X for Y length of time. That is the whole purpose of a manual record. For whatever reason, I as the user did not want to use the guide data to schedule the recording. One reason people use manual recordings is because the guide data is wrong. Therefore the DVR shouldn't be using the guide data for Manual Recording.

HR20 running 0x5d2

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#2 OFFLINE   TwoPhases

TwoPhases

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 133 posts
Joined: Jul 20, 2010

Posted 16 September 2012 - 09:16 PM

There's usually notification by the DVR if there's a "conflict" with an option to cancel the new request or the one in the to do list. You did not see one?

#3 OFFLINE   CCarncross

CCarncross

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 7,058 posts
  • LocationJackson
Joined: Jul 19, 2005

Posted 17 September 2012 - 07:05 AM

drill, I have never seen the behavior in manually recordings that you have experienced in your post. I'm suspecting something else happened instead, and its not really due to D*'s implementation of manual recordings...I've been here since the original release of the H20 and HR20.

#4 OFFLINE   tonyd79

tonyd79

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 12,546 posts
  • LocationColumbia, MD
Joined: Jul 24, 2006

Posted 17 September 2012 - 07:19 AM

I manually record Jay Leno every monday. 11:35 to 12:35. It always records NBC from 11:35 to 12:35 even when the show schedule is delayed for tennis or the Olympics or whatever.
LR: HR34-700, H24-200, Fios DVR, BD350 Blu Ray, Roku Netflix Player, Chromecast, Sony 65w850 TV
BR: HR21-200, Viso 32LX, DB350 Blu Ray
Dish: Slimline, SWM8
Other: genieGo

#5 OFFLINE   davidatl14

davidatl14

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 547 posts
Joined: Mar 24, 2006

Posted 17 September 2012 - 09:01 AM

I've used Manual record for years.

Zero problems.
May The Best of Your Past be the Worst of Your Future!

#6 OFFLINE   Shades228

Shades228

    Hall Of Fame

  • Banned User
  • 5,914 posts
Joined: Mar 18, 2008

Posted 17 September 2012 - 09:04 AM

I manually record Jay Leno every monday. 11:35 to 12:35. It always records NBC from 11:35 to 12:35 even when the show schedule is delayed for tennis or the Olympics or whatever.


But you do go into the guide and also select record on the Leno show as well?

Ultimately he told the DVR to duplicate a recording and it shut it down. The OP either needs to change the manual recording and then not record any show during that time frame on NBC or he needs to just setup the program he wants to record with a buffer to not lose anything.
All comments are my own. Unless specifically stated, my views do NOT represent the views of DIRECTV

#7 OFFLINE   drill

drill

    Legend

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 144 posts
Joined: Jun 28, 2006

Posted 17 September 2012 - 10:23 AM

Twophases, There wasn't a conflict. There was only 1 thing recording from 8:15 to 8:20. Then I pressed record on the 7pm to 8:20 show, that just happened to be on the same channel. I personally believe that DirecTV is treating a record selected by hitting the record button the same as a "Manual Record" set in the series manager. It should NOT do this. Hitting Record in the guide, or on a currently running program should be treated differently. At the very least, DirecTV should ask what to do if there is any ambiguity with a manual recording.

CCarncross, I have been here since the early super buggy HR20 days too. check my posts. Just because you haven't experienced it, doesn't mean that it isn't a bug. For you to experience it, you have to do exactly what I did. If you don't do that, you will not see it.

Shades228, I think you are correct that DirecTV inferred that I was trying to record the same thing with my recurring "Manual Recording" and the press of the Record button. But the problem is, the DVR inferred incorrectly.

THIS IS MY POINT. THE DVR SHOULD NOT TRY TO INFER WHAT I AM TRYING TO RECORD WITH A MANUAL RECORDING. THE DVR SHOULD RECORD EXACTLY AS I TELL IT TO UNLESS I EXPLICITLY CANCEL THE RECORDING VIA AN ONSCREEN PROMPT, OR REMOVE IT FROM THE TODO LIST MANUALLY. (sorry for the yelling, but i don't think my point came across clearly before)

this isn't the first time this has happened. i did the exact same thing 2 years ago, only the game started at 8:15 then, and I setup the Manual Record for 8. This year, I knew DirecTV's Manual Recording algorithm had this bug, and that is why I setup the Manual Record to start at 8:15. Only this year, the games start in the guide at 8:20, not 8:15 (I didn't catch that when I looked at the guide last week). So essentially I exercised the same bug, with different times.

I know I can work around the bug since I know it exists. but why should I have to? How can anyone accept this as the right thing for the software to do?

I am baffled why there are so many apologist for DirecTV on this site. When DirecTV does good stuff, praise them. When they screw up, call them on it. Otherwise, the product doesn't get better.

#8 OFFLINE   jimmie57

jimmie57

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 3,480 posts
  • LocationTexas City, TX
Joined: Jun 26, 2010

Posted 17 September 2012 - 10:29 AM

If a series is set up, and a Manual record does go into the series manager, and you press the record button while the same show is on, it turns the series OFF.

I do this quite often on shows I want to delay the recording of and then press the record button on a later time.

Yes, I know the recorder is supposed to handle that for us, I just choose to manually do it and know before hand that it is taken care of. It only takes a few seconds.

DirecTV customer since 1996 - Current :Slimline 3 SWM,   HR24-100 HDMI to 32" Sharp LED,
HR24-100 Component cables to 46" Samsung LCD & Optical Cable to Yamaha AVR, H21-200 HDMI to Yamaha AVR & HDMI to 52" Mitsubishi LCD


#9 OFFLINE   tonyd79

tonyd79

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 12,546 posts
  • LocationColumbia, MD
Joined: Jul 24, 2006

Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:19 AM

But you do go into the guide and also select record on the Leno show as well?

Ultimately he told the DVR to duplicate a recording and it shut it down. The OP either needs to change the manual recording and then not record any show during that time frame on NBC or he needs to just setup the program he wants to record with a buffer to not lose anything.


No I don't. I use the dvr as it works. Why would I set up a manual recording and a guide one for the same program.

And after his swipe at the site and other posters, I'm not going to test it either.
LR: HR34-700, H24-200, Fios DVR, BD350 Blu Ray, Roku Netflix Player, Chromecast, Sony 65w850 TV
BR: HR21-200, Viso 32LX, DB350 Blu Ray
Dish: Slimline, SWM8
Other: genieGo

#10 ONLINE   Laxguy

Laxguy

    Fortuna! Fameux des Halles

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 12,209 posts
  • LocationWinters, California
Joined: Dec 02, 2010

Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:55 AM

drill-

Inferences have many problems both mechanically and in the written word.

Short line is to understand what the unit does, not how you think it should. So don't mess with Record if it's doing what it was told to do.
"Laxguy" means a guy who loves lacrosse.

#11 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

hdtvfan0001

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 31,691 posts
Joined: Jul 28, 2004

Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:03 PM

There's usually notification by the DVR if there's a "conflict" with an option to cancel the new request or the one in the to do list. You did not see one?

drill, I have never seen the behavior in manually recordings that you have experienced in your post. I'm suspecting something else happened instead, and its not really due to D*'s implementation of manual recordings...I've been here since the original release of the H20 and HR20.

I manually record Jay Leno every monday. 11:35 to 12:35. It always records NBC from 11:35 to 12:35 even when the show schedule is delayed for tennis or the Olympics or whatever.

I've used Manual record for years. Zero problems.

Twophases, There wasn't a conflict. There was only 1 thing recording from 8:15 to 8:20. Then I pressed record on the 7pm to 8:20 show, that just happened to be on the same channel. I personally believe that DirecTV is treating a record selected by hitting the record button the same as a "Manual Record" set in the series manager. It should NOT do this.
I am baffled why there are so many apologist for DirecTV on this site. When DirecTV does good stuff, praise them. When they screw up, call them on it. Otherwise, the product doesn't get better.

There is little to be baffled about.

It would seem Manual Recording works just fine as designed for many people - and nothing that anyone is apologizing for...

What this thread appears to be is one user's assessment of how they would prefer Manual recording to work, in contrast to how is actually works.

Nothing wrong with that at all...but "right and wrong" methods are clearly only individual opinions.
DBSTalk CHAT ROOM MODERATOR
DirecTV Customer Since 1996

#12 OFFLINE   tonyd79

tonyd79

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 12,546 posts
  • LocationColumbia, MD
Joined: Jul 24, 2006

Posted 18 September 2012 - 08:27 AM

I cannot reproduce.

I setup a manual recording starting at 9:35 this morning.

I also picked from the guide the show that starts at 9 and the show that starts at 10. Bit hour long shows.

All three recorded.

I also experimented with Leno last night. Both recorded. Same starting time.

System is on NR. HR21-100.

What system was the problem on. Either something was done that is. It recalled or something changed or different software.

Did the guide data change at all?
LR: HR34-700, H24-200, Fios DVR, BD350 Blu Ray, Roku Netflix Player, Chromecast, Sony 65w850 TV
BR: HR21-200, Viso 32LX, DB350 Blu Ray
Dish: Slimline, SWM8
Other: genieGo

#13 OFFLINE   inkahauts

inkahauts

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 15,121 posts
Joined: Nov 13, 2006

Posted 18 September 2012 - 02:36 PM

You changed it when you told it to also record ten same thing on the same channel at the same time. It won't ever let you set it to record the same show under two different recordings at the same time when you tell it to do that. It did it based on your second request to record it, not guide data.

Personally, I don't understand why you'd use a manual recording for this purpose anyway. There is a much simpler approach to catching every Sunday night football game...

AALL EVENTS CCHANS 4 & Sports & Football


Assumes your NBC channel is 4

The sports and football are the categories you choose after doing a keyword search for the first part. It will catch a few notere dame games, but that's easy enough to erase.

#14 OFFLINE   inkahauts

inkahauts

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 15,121 posts
Joined: Nov 13, 2006

Posted 18 September 2012 - 02:41 PM

I cannot reproduce.

I setup a manual recording starting at 9:35 this morning.

I also picked from the guide the show that starts at 9 and the show that starts at 10. Bit hour long shows.

All three recorded.

I also experimented with Leno last night. Both recorded. Same starting time.

System is on NR. HR21-100.

What system was the problem on. Either something was done that is. It recalled or something changed or different software.

Did the guide data change at all?


I wonder if he had something else recording on the other tuner?

#15 ONLINE   harsh

harsh

    Beware the Attack Basset

  • Registered
  • 18,713 posts
  • LocationSalem, OR
Joined: Jun 14, 2003

Posted 18 September 2012 - 02:59 PM

I wonder if he had something else recording on the other tuner?

Should it matter whether your live or recording on the other tuner?

There should be some evidence that a battlefield decision was made to butch off a recording.

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. -- JFK


#16 OFFLINE   tonyd79

tonyd79

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 12,546 posts
  • LocationColumbia, MD
Joined: Jul 24, 2006

Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:32 PM

I wonder if he had something else recording on the other tuner?


Shouldn't matter. Directv DVRs share the tuner for a channel if the channel is the same. With overlaps and extended start and stop times, you can get more than 2 programs recording on a standard dvr at the same time.
LR: HR34-700, H24-200, Fios DVR, BD350 Blu Ray, Roku Netflix Player, Chromecast, Sony 65w850 TV
BR: HR21-200, Viso 32LX, DB350 Blu Ray
Dish: Slimline, SWM8
Other: genieGo

#17 OFFLINE   drill

drill

    Legend

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 144 posts
Joined: Jun 28, 2006

Posted 27 September 2012 - 03:18 PM

Shouldn't matter. Directv DVRs share the tuner for a channel if the channel is the same. With overlaps and extended start and stop times, you can get more than 2 programs recording on a standard dvr at the same time.


this is EXACTLY what i would expect the DVR to do in this case. It should recognize that my MANUAL recording is recording past the scheduled time in the guide. Therefore, it may be recording a different show. In that case, pressing record on the show in the guide should NOT result in canceling the MANUAL record. when the overlap occurs, record both from the same tuner.

again ... users here suggest ways to get around the problem, but don't acknowledge that the implementation is broken. if the implementation wasn't broken, a "workaround" wouldn't be needed. :nono2:

why would anyone EXPECT that a MANUAL recording would in any way rely on or use guide data? the reason a user goes through the trouble of setting up a MANUAL recording is to subvert the guide data, and instead do a dumb recording on a specific channel at a specific time.

#18 OFFLINE   tonyd79

tonyd79

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 12,546 posts
  • LocationColumbia, MD
Joined: Jul 24, 2006

Posted 27 September 2012 - 03:27 PM

this is EXACTLY what i would expect the DVR to do in this case. It should recognize that my MANUAL recording is recording past the scheduled time in the guide. Therefore, it may be recording a different show. In that case, pressing record on the show in the guide should NOT result in canceling the MANUAL record. when the overlap occurs, record both from the same tuner.


Did you miss the part where I posted that I did EXACTLY that and it recorded everything?

I set a manual record for 9:35 to 10:35. I then selected from the guide the 9:00 show and the 10:00 show (both were hour long shows). I wound up with THREE items in my list. Both shows plus a one hour block of manual recording tagged with the 9:00 show's name.

Did you do something else that you have not told us? Because I did exactly what you said you did.
LR: HR34-700, H24-200, Fios DVR, BD350 Blu Ray, Roku Netflix Player, Chromecast, Sony 65w850 TV
BR: HR21-200, Viso 32LX, DB350 Blu Ray
Dish: Slimline, SWM8
Other: genieGo

#19 OFFLINE   davidatl14

davidatl14

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 547 posts
Joined: Mar 24, 2006

Posted 27 September 2012 - 07:46 PM

Yep, no work arounds, no back door tricks, just set the MR properly and absolutely zero problems in years.
May The Best of Your Past be the Worst of Your Future!

#20 OFFLINE   inf0z

inf0z

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 260 posts
Joined: Oct 15, 2011

Posted 27 September 2012 - 08:53 PM

Manual record working as intended on both my DVR's. Tested it out last night.




Protected By... spam firewall...And...