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The Last Resort


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#61 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 09:09 PM

There are still several episodes to get there.

IMHO, the problems are irreconcilable. I just can’t buy it.

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#62 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 11:59 PM

IMHO, the problems are irreconcilable. I just can’t buy it.


People said the same thing up until the final episodes of LOST.
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#63 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:06 AM

People said the same thing up until the final episodes of LOST.

Lost was science fiction and fantasy. Last Resort is a supposed to be real world drama.

Here’s my attempt to list the holes cannot be fixed.
  • It is impossible to bottom the submarine. The sonar dome on an Ohio class sub is fiberglass and would have been heavily damaged. Not to mention the rudder, stern planes, and other rather important connections/equipment. It actually is impossible to do and still have the ship be capable of continued operation. An Ohio is huge, heavy, and would have been so stuck in the bottom mud that it’s unlikely they’d get out easily or at all. If they did the amount of noise it would put into the water would have made them sitting ducks. No amount of super double secret gear would be able hide a the boat with all the noise the busted gear would be radiating into the ears of every ships within a hundred miles.
  • Not to mention the absolutely ludicrous idea that some un-named bad guy(s) is gonna get launch codes for a boat on alert (there’s very little info more highly controlled), get access to a the proper encrypted transmitting equipment, transmit a properly formatted Emergency Action Message, and all without anyone finding out. There’s so much that has to happen without getting caught that you’d need so many people involved the get around the road blocks and have nobody talk. Yeah, that’s gonna happen.
  • From a logistics standpoint they’re sitting ducks no matter how you look at it. In port a couple of sub launched cruise missiles would take them out before they could respond. At sea running drills a couple of fast attacks would blow them out of the water even faster. It is impossible for them to have lasted this long and the scenarios that have kept them from being obliterated, especially when they’re on the surface, are completely beyond belief.
  • The Trident D5 missile doesn’t have the range to reach east coast of the US from the Indian Ocean; not even close...and yet they want us to believe they sent one nearly halfway around the planet.
  • A detonation of a nuke 200 miles east of DC would actually only be ≈100 miles off the eastern seaboard. The blast would have been huge and seen from most of the mid-Atlantic coastline. Even if you ignore the fact that they couldn’t have reached anywhere near the US with a sub launched missile, blast zone would have been in one of the world’s busiest shipping lanes. A Hiroshima sized bomb would have a blast radius of about one nautical mile. A Trident re-entry vehicle would have been much larger. The blast would have destroyed any ship in the blast radius and would have rained radioactive fallout over a very large area of the east coast contaminating the sea and shoreline, regardless of wind direction at the time. Ships would likely have been sunk and people would likely have died. This one of my biggest problems and one I believe not possible to fix.
IMHO, there’s no fixing these plot holes without some PFM (pure bleeping magic). :grin:

Mike

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#64 OFFLINE   EdJ

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:30 AM

If one let "facts" get in the way of most TV programs and/or movies, there would not be many programs to watch. It is entertainment. Forget about looking at the facts and just go with the flow. :)

#65 OFFLINE   MysteryMan

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:56 AM

If one let "facts" get in the way of most TV programs and/or movies, there would not be many programs to watch. It is entertainment. Forget about looking at the facts and just go with the flow. :)


I disagree. Today's viewing audience are far more knowledgeable and deserve better.

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#66 OFFLINE   litex2x

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:11 AM

Lost was science fiction and fantasy. Last Resort is a supposed to be real world drama.

Here’s my attempt to list the holes cannot be fixed.

  • It is impossible to bottom the submarine. The sonar dome on an Ohio class sub is fiberglass and would have been heavily damaged. Not to mention the rudder, stern planes, and other rather important connections/equipment. It actually is impossible to do and still have the ship be capable of continued operation. An Ohio is huge, heavy, and would have been so stuck in the bottom mud that it’s unlikely they’d get out easily or at all. If they did the amount of noise it would put into the water would have made them sitting ducks. No amount of super double secret gear would be able hide a the boat with all the noise the busted gear would be radiating into the ears of every ships within a hundred miles.
  • Not to mention the absolutely ludicrous idea that some un-named bad guy(s) is gonna get launch codes for a boat on alert (there’s very little info more highly controlled), get access to a the proper encrypted transmitting equipment, transmit a properly formatted Emergency Action Message, and all without anyone finding out. There’s so much that has to happen without getting caught that you’d need so many people involved the get around the road blocks and have nobody talk. Yeah, that’s gonna happen.
  • From a logistics standpoint they’re sitting ducks no matter how you look at it. In port a couple of sub launched cruise missiles would take them out before they could respond. At sea running drills a couple of fast attacks would blow them out of the water even faster. It is impossible for them to have lasted this long and the scenarios that have kept them from being obliterated, especially when they’re on the surface, are completely beyond belief.
  • The Trident D5 missile doesn’t have the range to reach east coast of the US from the Indian Ocean; not even close...and yet they want us to believe they sent one nearly halfway around the planet.
  • A detonation of a nuke 200 miles east of DC would actually only be ≈100 miles off the eastern seaboard. The blast would have been huge and seen from most of the mid-Atlantic coastline. Even if you ignore the fact that they couldn’t have reached anywhere near the US with a sub launched missile, blast zone would have been in one of the world’s busiest shipping lanes. A Hiroshima sized bomb would have a blast radius of about one nautical mile. A Trident re-entry vehicle would have been much larger. The blast would have destroyed any ship in the blast radius and would have rained radioactive fallout over a very large area of the east coast contaminating the sea and shoreline, regardless of wind direction at the time. Ships would likely have been sunk and people would likely have died. This one of my biggest problems and one I believe not possible to fix.
IMHO, there’s no fixing these plot holes without some PFM (pure bleeping magic). :grin:

Mike


The majority of the viewers aren't as knowledgeable as you on the subject of submarine warfare. I don't really have a problem with any of these plot holes.

#67 OFFLINE   BAHitman

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:21 AM

Lost was science fiction and fantasy. Last Resort is a supposed to be real world drama.


Here’s my attempt to list the holes cannot be fixed.

  • It is impossible to bottom the submarine. The sonar dome on an Ohio class sub is fiberglass and would have been heavily damaged. Not to mention the rudder, stern planes, and other rather important connections/equipment. It actually is impossible to do and still have the ship be capable of continued operation. An Ohio is huge, heavy, and would have been so stuck in the bottom mud that it’s unlikely they’d get out easily or at all. If they did the amount of noise it would put into the water would have made them sitting ducks. No amount of super double secret gear would be able hide a the boat with all the noise the busted gear would be radiating into the ears of every ships within a hundred miles.
  • Not to mention the absolutely ludicrous idea that some un-named bad guy(s) is gonna get launch codes for a boat on alert (there’s very little info more highly controlled), get access to a the proper encrypted transmitting equipment, transmit a properly formatted Emergency Action Message, and all without anyone finding out. There’s so much that has to happen without getting caught that you’d need so many people involved the get around the road blocks and have nobody talk. Yeah, that’s gonna happen.
  • From a logistics standpoint they’re sitting ducks no matter how you look at it. In port a couple of sub launched cruise missiles would take them out before they could respond. At sea running drills a couple of fast attacks would blow them out of the water even faster. It is impossible for them to have lasted this long and the scenarios that have kept them from being obliterated, especially when they’re on the surface, are completely beyond belief.
  • The Trident D5 missile doesn’t have the range to reach east coast of the US from the Indian Ocean; not even close...and yet they want us to believe they sent one nearly halfway around the planet.
  • A detonation of a nuke 200 miles east of DC would actually only be ≈100 miles off the eastern seaboard. The blast would have been huge and seen from most of the mid-Atlantic coastline. Even if you ignore the fact that they couldn’t have reached anywhere near the US with a sub launched missile, blast zone would have been in one of the world’s busiest shipping lanes. A Hiroshima sized bomb would have a blast radius of about one nautical mile. A Trident re-entry vehicle would have been much larger. The blast would have destroyed any ship in the blast radius and would have rained radioactive fallout over a very large area of the east coast contaminating the sea and shoreline, regardless of wind direction at the time. Ships would likely have been sunk and people would likely have died. This one of my biggest problems and one I believe not possible to fix.
IMHO, there’s no fixing these plot holes without some PFM (pure bleeping magic). :grin:

Mike


Guess I just watch TV to be entertained, not to find holes in the storyline of the programs I watch... These points won't stop me from beeing entertained by the show...
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#68 OFFLINE   Supramom2000

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:50 AM

Mike,

I know exactly what you mean. But I don't call these "plot holes". They are technical gaps. Huge ones, but nothing that will impact the story or the wrap up for those who are not knowledgeable about US Navy subs and nuclear missiles.

Plot holes are things like:

-What was the SEALs' real mission?

-Why didn't the SEALs help the crew when it became apparent the intent was to be rid of them in order to preserve all secrecy?

-Why have "THEY" not killed the woman who designed the cloaking device? Why do they let her keep trying to gather more evidence and information?

And there are more along this line.

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#69 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:58 PM

Mike,

I know exactly what you mean. But I don't call these "plot holes". They are technical gaps. Huge ones, but nothing that will impact the story or the wrap up for those who are not knowledgeable about US Navy subs and nuclear missiles.

Plot holes are things like:

-What was the SEALs' real mission?

-Why didn't the SEALs help the crew when it became apparent the intent was to be rid of them in order to preserve all secrecy?

-Why have "THEY" not killed the woman who designed the cloaking device? Why do they let her keep trying to gather more evidence and information?

And there are more along this line.

From the three episodes I watched I got the impression that info was part of the story arc that would be revealed to as to story developed. I kinda expected we wouldn’t see that part of the story until they developed some of what’s going on. I see their mission and their actions in the beginning as a couple of the clues to the conspiracy that they will introduce at the story arc progressed. I don’t consider the SEAL’s story a plot hole.

As for the woman in DC (Sinclair?), I see here as one the protagonists to advance the story in DC. I think the idea is that she’s supposed to be prominent enough that having her whacked would draw too much attention. I think that’s why she’s not just a lobbyist but also the daughter of a big wig in the defense industry.

I believe both of these are necessary in order to advance the plot line. I don’t think these are plot holes...but I've been wrong before. :grin:

I see exploding a nuke 100 miles of the eastern seaboard, in one of busiest shipping lanes on the planet, with no damage, casualties, or contamination as a huge hole...and the one I’m having the most trouble with. I could overlook everything else if the story is good enough but nuke pushes it over the edge.

My 2¢ FWIW. ;)

Mike

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#70 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:17 PM

Lost was science fiction and fantasy. Last Resort is a supposed to be real world drama.

Here’s my attempt to list the holes cannot be fixed.

  • It is impossible to bottom the submarine. The sonar dome on an Ohio class sub is fiberglass and would have been heavily damaged. Not to mention the rudder, stern planes, and other rather important connections/equipment. It actually is impossible to do and still have the ship be capable of continued operation. An Ohio is huge, heavy, and would have been so stuck in the bottom mud that it’s unlikely they’d get out easily or at all. If they did the amount of noise it would put into the water would have made them sitting ducks. No amount of super double secret gear would be able hide a the boat with all the noise the busted gear would be radiating into the ears of every ships within a hundred miles.
  • Not to mention the absolutely ludicrous idea that some un-named bad guy(s) is gonna get launch codes for a boat on alert (there’s very little info more highly controlled), get access to a the proper encrypted transmitting equipment, transmit a properly formatted Emergency Action Message, and all without anyone finding out. There’s so much that has to happen without getting caught that you’d need so many people involved the get around the road blocks and have nobody talk. Yeah, that’s gonna happen.
  • From a logistics standpoint they’re sitting ducks no matter how you look at it. In port a couple of sub launched cruise missiles would take them out before they could respond. At sea running drills a couple of fast attacks would blow them out of the water even faster. It is impossible for them to have lasted this long and the scenarios that have kept them from being obliterated, especially when they’re on the surface, are completely beyond belief.
  • The Trident D5 missile doesn’t have the range to reach east coast of the US from the Indian Ocean; not even close...and yet they want us to believe they sent one nearly halfway around the planet.
  • A detonation of a nuke 200 miles east of DC would actually only be ≈100 miles off the eastern seaboard. The blast would have been huge and seen from most of the mid-Atlantic coastline. Even if you ignore the fact that they couldn’t have reached anywhere near the US with a sub launched missile, blast zone would have been in one of the world’s busiest shipping lanes. A Hiroshima sized bomb would have a blast radius of about one nautical mile. A Trident re-entry vehicle would have been much larger. The blast would have destroyed any ship in the blast radius and would have rained radioactive fallout over a very large area of the east coast contaminating the sea and shoreline, regardless of wind direction at the time. Ships would likely have been sunk and people would likely have died. This one of my biggest problems and one I believe not possible to fix.
IMHO, there’s no fixing these plot holes without some PFM (pure bleeping magic). :grin:

Mike


Why screw up a show with "facts"? If I got angry at any show that used stuff that I knew to be false I'd never watch TV. IP addresses like 302.21.1007.18? Yeah, ok... There are times when you just have to accept the fact that what can be done on TV isn't exactly something that can be done in real life.
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#71 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:18 PM

The majority of the viewers aren't as knowledgeable as you on the subject of submarine warfare. I don't really have a problem with any of these plot holes.


Neither do I. It's a TV show, aka fantasy.
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#72 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:20 PM

I see exploding a nuke 100 miles of the eastern seaboard, in one of busiest shipping lanes on the planet, with no damage, casualties, or contamination as a huge hole...and the one I’m having the most trouble with. I could overlook everything else if the story is good enough but nuke pushes it over the edge.


That's not a "plot hole", that's just not getting the scientific facts correct. Again, fantasy.

It's also impossible to move an entire island in time and space yet they did it on LOST and that show was a huge success.

Were you this upset with Gilligan's Island back in the day with all the things they got wrong or all the things on that show that were inconceivable? :)
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#73 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 05:50 PM

That's not a "plot hole", that's just not getting the scientific facts correct. Again, fantasy.

It's also impossible to move an entire island in time and space yet they did it on LOST and that show was a huge success.

Were you this upset with Gilligan's Island back in the day with all the things they got wrong or all the things on that show that were inconceivable? :)

Loved Gilligan's Island. It was one of my favorites. Wrongway Feldman. :lol:

Fringe, Warehouse 13, Haven, Revolution, The Walking Dead all favorites. I was really bummed when Lost ended.

I've got no problems suspending reality for my entertainment but this real world drama that makes our Navy look like a bunch of incompetent boobs; where a nuclear weapon can detonate with no damage or consequences. It just doesn't work for me.

Mike

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#74 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:23 PM

Loved Gilligan's Island. It was one of my favorites. Wrongway Feldman. :lol:

Fringe, Warehouse 13, Haven, Revolution, The Walking Dead all favorites. I was really bummed when Lost ended.

I've got no problems suspending reality for my entertainment but this real world drama that makes our Navy look like a bunch of incompetent boobs; where a nuclear weapon can detonate with no damage or consequences. It just doesn't work for me.

Mike


But it's not the "real world", it's TV.
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#75 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 12:26 AM

My wife and I who enjoyed this "mini-series" were happy to see them wrap it up. Given the fact that the writers and show-runner were hoping for additional seasons, they did a pretty good job telling us what happened.

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#76 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:00 AM

My wife and I who enjoyed this "mini-series" were happy to see them wrap it up. Given the fact that the writers and show-runner were hoping for additional seasons, they did a pretty good job telling us what happened.


I thought they wrapped it up pretty well too. You could tell it was a last minute thing though because it all happened so fast.

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#77 OFFLINE   Drucifer

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:28 PM

Assassination? What a copout.

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#78 OFFLINE   klang

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:59 PM

Watched the finale today and thought it was OK. I still think the show would have been a better fit as a summer mini-series. I am really disappointed we didn't get to see Julian Serrat taken out.




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