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The official Pac-12 discussion thread


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830 replies to this topic

#801 OFFLINE   chillyfl

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 02:45 PM

This is the first time I've seen a number attributed to DirecTV's offer to PAC-12.  ASU AD stated they are offerring less than 2/3's of the deals that other providers have taken.  DirecTV understands that west coast sports fans will be more loyal to their NFL teams and Sunday ticket than PAC-12, and don't need to pay "full price."   But PAC-12 can't cut DIRECTV that much of a deal without killing future negotiations with current (and potential) providers.  I just don't see where the middle ground will ever happen to get it on D*, and don't think it's going to happen.

 

http://arizonasports...t-Pac12-Network

 

 



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#802 OFFLINE   Bambler

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 12:29 PM

I'm enjoying the Pac-12 Network -- on Comcast of course. At this point I really don't care if DirecTV ever carries this channel.

One thing that will have a huge paradigm shift, in my opinion, will be the next Sunday Ticket contract, and whether the NFL makes it an open bid, available to any provider. Sunday Ticket has become somewhat marginalized at this point anyways, and I doubt DirecTV will pay the exorbitant price for exclusive carriage rights, which means the NFL will sell it like any other channel, potentially making even more.

If this happens, things will change, especially for DirecTV, who has parlayed Sunday Ticket for all its worth. I'll be honest, I'm really looking forward to this day. More choices is always a good thing and I will be able to bundle (for "real") Sunday Ticket into a true three for deal and cut DirecTV's beam for good.

#803 OFFLINE   DawgLink

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 04:02 PM

Tried watching this the other day and I just can't get interested in it since I have no connection to the Pac-12 whatsoever.

Unless you graduate from one of the schools, I am unsure why the channel would interest you outside a few Saturdays during FBall season

#804 OFFLINE   tjguitar

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 02:22 PM

I would say that outside of football saturdays, the value would be for fans of college sports that don't get aired much on ESPN - such as water polo, volleyball and soccer. Also a lot of basketball, softball, and baseball.



#805 OFFLINE   sdk009

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 10:28 AM

Tried watching this the other day and I just can't get interested in it since I have no connection to the Pac-12 whatsoever.

Unless you graduate from one of the schools, I am unsure why the channel would interest you outside a few Saturdays during FBall season

The same could be said for the B1G Net, and the upcoming SEC Net.



#806 OFFLINE   DawgLink

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 11:17 AM

The same could be said for the B1G Net, and the upcoming SEC Net.

Ok?

#807 OFFLINE   widmark

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 12:20 PM

I'm enjoying the Pac-12 Network -- on Comcast of course. At this point I really don't care if DirecTV ever carries this channel.

One thing that will have a huge paradigm shift, in my opinion, will be the next Sunday Ticket contract, and whether the NFL makes it an open bid, available to any provider. Sunday Ticket has become somewhat marginalized at this point anyways, and I doubt DirecTV will pay the exorbitant price for exclusive carriage rights, which means the NFL will sell it like any other channel, potentially making even more.

If this happens, things will change, especially for DirecTV, who has parlayed Sunday Ticket for all its worth. I'll be honest, I'm really looking forward to this day. More choices is always a good thing and I will be able to bundle (for "real") Sunday Ticket into a true three for deal and cut DirecTV's beam for good.

 

Time Warner already has NFL Network... not sure what the difference is between ST and NFL Net, but DTV pays $1 billion/year for exclusivity of Sunday Ticket.  But DTV inked that deal before NFL Network existed.  Looks like DTV's price will come down on renewal at the same time NFL's interest in exclusivity is waning and would probably ask for more... I expect no more exclusivity for DTV once the current contract runs.


Edited by widmark, 13 June 2013 - 12:20 PM.


#808 OFFLINE   widmark

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 12:32 PM

This is the first time I've seen a number attributed to DirecTV's offer to PAC-12.  ASU AD stated they are offerring less than 2/3's of the deals that other providers have taken.  DirecTV understands that west coast sports fans will be more loyal to their NFL teams and Sunday ticket than PAC-12, and don't need to pay "full price."   But PAC-12 can't cut DIRECTV that much of a deal without killing future negotiations with current (and potential) providers.  I just don't see where the middle ground will ever happen to get it on D*, and don't think it's going to happen.

 

http://arizonasports...t-Pac12-Network

 

 

 

All the Athletic Directors are driving the Pac-12 to demand record fees because they want the $ for their programs... almost all of which are not well funded given budget issues and in some cases big expansion projects.  So whenever those guys/gals take sides against DTV (and they always do), remember they have a BIG dog in that race and they are hardly objective.

 

Its important for the Pac 12 to raise a lot of money for the athletic programs.  But when they charge record fees (take a look at the industry record deal they pushed on ESPN/Fox) during a west coast recession, resulting in fans inability to see games... that's when these guys need to take a deep breath and look at the big picture.   I am still a fan of my Pac-12 team... but less of one bc I can't see games.  Who loses?  The colleges, the athletes, the fans... and the short-sighted ADs/Pac-12 who are grinding for every last nickel or no soup for you.  Villifying whomever doesn't accept your huge fee increase isn't going to do anything if they can't pass the fee on to subscribers or advertisers, but reducing your fee will you pinheads.



#809 OFFLINE   sum_random_dork

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 04:45 PM

All the Athletic Directors are driving the Pac-12 to demand record fees because they want the $ for their programs... almost all of which are not well funded given budget issues and in some cases big expansion projects.  So whenever those guys/gals take sides against DTV (and they always do), remember they have a BIG dog in that race and they are hardly objective.

 

Its important for the Pac 12 to raise a lot of money for the athletic programs.  But when they charge record fees (take a look at the industry record deal they pushed on ESPN/Fox) during a west coast recession, resulting in fans inability to see games... that's when these guys need to take a deep breath and look at the big picture.   I am still a fan of my Pac-12 team... but less of one bc I can't see games.  Who loses?  The colleges, the athletes, the fans... and the short-sighted ADs/Pac-12 who are grinding for every last nickel or no soup for you.  Villifying whomever doesn't accept your huge fee increase isn't going to do anything if they can't pass the fee on to subscribers or advertisers, but reducing your fee will you pinheads.

While much of what you say does overall make sense a couple of points to make.  Yes it was a record deal, but that's because they were the contract up ESPN was looking for more live programing and FOX knew they'd be launching FS1, and Comcast/NBC was looking for programing for their networks.  What did the SEC do right after the Pac 12 reach their deal...go and work out a new deal with ESPN to launch their own network.  As for "coverage" the Pac 12 had a HORRIBLE deal before for their new TV deal.  Often times Pac 10/12 games were not broadcast at all unless they were picked up by a local RSN/TV Station.  That was a big part of the new deal was going out and making sure each football game would be on TV. 

 

As for funding their athletic depts. by the TV deal, well that's true.  But, shouldn't all athletic depts. try to fund as much as possible through their gate revenue and TV deals?  Why should the states fund them if they can fund much of their own depts. through the deals they create and endowments? 



#810 OFFLINE   widmark

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 05:40 PM

As for funding their athletic depts. by the TV deal, well that's true.  But, shouldn't all athletic depts. try to fund as much as possible through their gate revenue and TV deals?  

 

Yes, as much as possible, just not more than possible. More than possible = expensive for the schools in lost revenue and fanbase  The stalemate with DTV, Charter, U-verse, and Verizon should have been Larry Scott's first hint that perhaps he asked for too much. The middlemen cable/sat co.'s will be irrelevant soon and believe me I am looking forward to it.  But in the meantime, they are in the eyeballs business and if they think they can make a buck they will sign Pac-12's deal.  If DTV were truly all alone in not signing then Pac-12 would have a better argument for their record fee grab and I would be on their side.

 

We are almost all dogged fans on this thread... don't forget many fans aren't.. so these ADs who cause the stalemate are disenfranchising the many fans who if they can't watch the Pac12, will just do/watch something else and lose interest... many for years even when they have access again.  The Pac-12's economic pie shrinks for years when fans don't have access .  Nobody can quantify it so apparently they think it ain't reality.



#811 OFFLINE   tjguitar

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 04:12 PM

Yes, as much as possible, just not more than possible. More than possible = expensive for the schools in lost revenue and fanbase  The stalemate with DTV, Charter, U-verse, and Verizon should have been Larry Scott's first hint that perhaps he asked for too much. The middlemen cable/sat co.'s will be irrelevant soon and believe me I am looking forward to it.  But in the meantime, they are in the eyeballs business and if they think they can make a buck they will sign Pac-12's deal.  If DTV were truly all alone in not signing then Pac-12 would have a better argument for their record fee grab and I would be on their side.

 

We are almost all dogged fans on this thread... don't forget many fans aren't.. so these ADs who cause the stalemate are disenfranchising the many fans who if they can't watch the Pac12, will just do/watch something else and lose interest... many for years even when they have access again.  The Pac-12's economic pie shrinks for years when fans don't have access .  Nobody can quantify it so apparently they think it ain't reality.

 

 

I don't buy this simply because P12N has as much distribution as it does have - it even got on DISH. P12N is way more widely available than The MTN was before it finally caved to DirecTV. Uverse is only available in one Pac-12 market. I don't konw about Chater or Verizon.

 

The P12N wouldn't be on the providers that it is on if it was charging too much - it is on some tiny providers too, not just the TWC/Cox/Comcast that was originally annoucned. I really think that if P12N was just one network rather than 7 networks, that it would already be on DirecTV. It's too bad that whatever deal to DISH for just the national network apparently wasn't offered to DirecTV, because that would be better than nothing.



#812 OFFLINE   sum_random_dork

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 04:22 PM

 It's too bad that whatever deal to DISH for just the national network apparently wasn't offered to DirecTV, because that would be better than nothing.

I have no way of knowing for sure, but from what I read the deal Dish did get was offered to DirecTV (including the in stadium advertising).  The deal was laid out and DirecTV balked (probably feeling they could get a lower price if they made Pac 12 go back to the boardroom).  Pac 12 Networks offered the deal to Dish and Dish took it.  Is it a good deal or a bad deal...I can't say one way or another.  But it surely has upset many West Coast Pac 12 fans that like having DirecTV but also like to watch their Pac 12 team(s).  I don't have a good feeling at all we'll see it before this CFB season, it seems that DirecTV has drawn it's "line in the sand" on sports and is refusing to pay the fees other networks want.  (but they seem happy to charge other providers for Root Sports) 



#813 OFFLINE   widmark

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 04:56 PM

If need any more convincing that the Pac-12 is being overly greedy, look at these numbers:

 

dp72uq.png

 

Pac-12 broke all the records with a $3 billion rights deal a few years ago.  The chart above doesn't reflect P12-Network income or any future income from new deals such as with DirecTV, U-verse, Verizon West, and Charter.  Those networks declined the Pac-12's take it or leave it deal.

 

The ADs and Larry Scott need to slow the train just a bit, get everybody aboard, and it will move fine.  They also need to cut Scott's comp... the $3 billion reflects the quality of the conference.... not him... and they shouldn't be paying him anywhere near $3.1 million a year.  Not even the Big-10 commissioner makes more than Larry.  

 

BTW, from which Pac-12 city did Larry make his network announcement?  New York City.  This guy and money grab mentality are really turn offs and I will not be contributing a nickel to my college until he is gone and the P12 is back at DTV.

 

Sources:

 

http://www.usatoday....sation/2324799/

http://www.businessi...-tv-deal-2011-5


Edited by widmark, 14 June 2013 - 05:20 PM.


#814 OFFLINE   Bambler

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 09:30 AM

You make it sound like that's a bad thing? It is a free market after all. Does it look extravagant? Sure, but put yourself in his shoes...would you try for any less? The only people he has to answer to are the ADs, not you, me or anyone else for that matter. I can't fault him for squeezing everything he can and from the looks of it, he seemed to have done a good job, even though DirecTV is not on board yet.

I'm sure Delaney or Silve would gladly jump at the chance for the deals that Scott achieved, and gladly be vilified for it as Scott seemingly is at the moment.

#815 OFFLINE   DawgLink

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 02:54 PM

It is a free market after all.

That's debatable in today's Corporations-Lobby-For-Their-Rules world.

#816 OFFLINE   sum_random_dork

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 10:34 AM

If need any more convincing that the Pac-12 is being overly greedy, look at these numbers:

 

dp72uq.png

 

Pac-12 broke all the records with a $3 billion rights deal a few years ago.  The chart above doesn't reflect P12-Network income or any future income from new deals such as with DirecTV, U-verse, Verizon West, and Charter.  Those networks declined the Pac-12's take it or leave it deal.

 

The ADs and Larry Scott need to slow the train just a bit, get everybody aboard, and it will move fine.  They also need to cut Scott's comp... the $3 billion reflects the quality of the conference.... not him... and they shouldn't be paying him anywhere near $3.1 million a year.  Not even the Big-10 commissioner makes more than Larry.  

 

BTW, from which Pac-12 city did Larry make his network announcement?  New York City.  This guy and money grab mentality are really turn offs and I will not be contributing a nickel to my college until he is gone and the P12 is back at DTV.

 

Sources:

 

http://www.usatoday....sation/2324799/

http://www.businessi...-tv-deal-2011-5

I am confused here, why are you blaming Larry Scott for doing his job?  When he was hired they added 2 more schools to up the value of the Conference and Network.  Also take into account the new Pac12  contract kicked in last year, so the #s will be bigger.  Moving forward those #s will change as the other deals come into effect.  I guess my other question is what is your school you don't want to contribute to?  Were you sending money to the school or the athletic dept?  The idea behind these deals was to hopefully make the athletic depts. self sufficient moving forward. 

 

As for the Pac12 network in general, rumor has it all the money that was made by the network will be poured right back into the network and no school will be taking a "payout" this year. 



#817 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 10:44 AM

I am confused here, why are you blaming Larry Scott for doing his job?  When he was hired they added 2 more schools to up the value of the Conference and Network.  Also take into account the new Pac12  contract kicked in last year, so the #s will be bigger.  Moving forward those #s will change as the other deals come into effect.  I guess my other question is what is your school you don't want to contribute to?  Were you sending money to the school or the athletic dept?  The idea behind these deals was to hopefully make the athletic depts. self sufficient moving forward. 

 

As for the Pac12 network in general, rumor has it all the money that was made by the network will be poured right back into the network and no school will be taking a "payout" this year. 

 

Not arguing your points, but some of us blame Scott for overreaching. In bond trading, there's an old saying re profits: Being a pig is all right, but hogs get slaughtered.


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#818 OFFLINE   widmark

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 11:26 AM

SumR... You sound more defensive than confused....

The college presidents and ADs are the ones that hired Larry. He has no stake in this other than a paycheck... And thats in part why if you have DTV, Charter, Verizon, or Uverse you are unhappy if you love the P12. He is a nonP12 alumn who thinks he's running NBC Sports rather than an NCAA conference. It's not all his doing... The college chancellors are the ones approving the moves Larry makes.

The goal of the (especially publicly funded ) Pac12 unversities should be to reach close to all viewers first, and maximize dollars second. The colleges benefit from exposure, and so do fans and alumni in ways that have nothing to do with annual network revenue sharing. A private sports network is a pure profit enterprise... He should try that route and not hijack the P12 to run it like one.

If your "rumor" is true that Larry generated his $3+ million paycheck by grinding out a $3 billion deal that is costing $250M in the first year and presumably more in future years... In addition to stranding a bunch of viewers.... Sounds like he and his strategy are less beneficial to the P12 than even I gave him credit for.

Edited by widmark, 17 June 2013 - 11:47 AM.


#819 OFFLINE   tjguitar

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 11:16 PM

Oh, don't worry, the SEC and Big Ten will be making more money than the Pac 12 when their contracts expire in the next ew years.


The P12N annoucnced their fall volleyball schedule. 90 games on P12N, that's a little bit more than last year....which is awesome for volleyball fans. Way more than you see the other conferences broadcast.


DirecTV wants to pay a lot less than everybody else is, like they did with the MTN - that's their choice. If fans don't want to switch providers to get the networks they want, that's their choice too.

If P12N accepts DTV's lowball offer, that might affect their contracts with the other providers and bankrupt the network. Who knows what is going on.


I know that I am switching to Time Warner if Uverse or DirecTV do not add it. If I switch to TWC, I will lose the Big Ten Network, but I'd rather have the pac 12 network anyway.

I don't want the P12N to go the way of the MTN- all sports other than football and men's basketball have way less games on TV since the mtn went bankrupt. If keeping P12N off DirecTV allows the network to survive- I'm for that.

Edited by tjguitar, 17 June 2013 - 11:19 PM.


#820 OFFLINE   camo

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 02:40 AM

I almost convinced myself to change to Dish for the pac 12 network then I remembered how the regional Fox sports baseball games were sd 40% of the time. I also ran across a few post stating how poor some of the HD games looked last year on Dish. I think I'll hold out 1 more year with the believe both SEC and Pac12 will come in 2014 to Directv. 

For those that don't have cable as an option and want to keep Directv you can get the Dish Tailgater and use it for the 4 football months no contract required. Get the 120 package which comes with pac12 network. I believe they charge an additional 7 dollars fee each month plus the tv package you choose. I'm seriously thinking about it, plus I can use it for camping and other activities. 


Edited by camo, 20 July 2013 - 02:41 AM.

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