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First Run confusion on Reelz and others


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13 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Stuart Sweet

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 08:49 AM

Hey all, I wanted to start a constructive discussion about what's going on with Reelz and other channels.

Reelz has series that have never aired before in the US. Technically they're not first run, because they have aired before. So, to get them, you have to set the recording option to "Both" because they are first run series not repeats, but their original air date is not the same day you're recording them.

This is a guide data issue that is out of DIRECTV's hands.

I've seen this before with series on BBC America that come over here after airing in Britain for a year.

So...

I was hoping you all could let me know which series you've had problems with, and what you would do to fix it (assuming you couldn't change the guide data.)

Thanks!
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#2 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 10:31 AM

On SyFy, Lost Girl is one of those shows. Have to do the 'both' to ensure you get them all.

As to how D* could fix that? The only thing that comes to mind is to have the info provider start the showing dates from when they show up in the US, or is there a flag in the info for 'new'?

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#3 OFFLINE   fleckrj

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 10:43 AM

Merlin on SyFy is another one of these. DirecTV gets the guide data from Tribune, and the date that Tribune supplies is the true first run date regardless of where it was first run.

#4 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 10:58 AM

Don't shows have ID codes embedded in them in addition to the first run date? If they do, directv could use that to modify the guide data before download.
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#5 OFFLINE   fleckrj

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:14 AM

Don't shows have ID codes embedded in them in addition to the first run date? If they do, directv could use that to modify the guide data before download.


That is technically possible, but not really feasible. Who would maintain the database that determined if a particular show has ever been shown in the US before? What do you do about shows that are first run for a given network, but had already been shown on a different network? Would the rules be different if the original network was an OTA channel (e.g., House - originally on Fox, but soon to be on ION), a basic channel (e.g. Leverage, originally on USA, but rerun on ION), or a premium (e.g., Sex in the City, originally on HBO, then rerun on TBS, and then E! and Style)?

#6 OFFLINE   RonH

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:35 AM

The AMC series "Into the West" sort of falls into this category. AMC is re running this Series which it 1st aired a few years ago. I had set my DVR to only do "1st run" and though the 1st episode did record the 2nd one didn't. I just manually setting each episode now.

#7 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:46 AM

That is technically possible, but not really feasible. Who would maintain the database that determined if a particular show has ever been shown in the US before? What do you do about shows that are first run for a given network, but had already been shown on a different network? Would the rules be different if the original network was an OTA channel (e.g., House - originally on Fox, but soon to be on ION), a basic channel (e.g. Leverage, originally on USA, but rerun on ION), or a premium (e.g., Sex in the City, originally on HBO, then rerun on TBS, and then E! and Style)?


The rules would have to be set. What does First Run mean, but the data is easily handled; those are different parts of the conversation. I think Tivo is already doing this. Or they were back when I was a customer.

Someone has to maintain the data. I assumed Stuart's rule of not changing the guide data meant not changing the source (as they seem to have no interest in doing that).

And I know that episode codes were (are) available on Dish as a friend who moved over from one to the other used to track if they watched a show by the episode code.
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#8 OFFLINE   islesfan

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 03:43 PM

The rules would have to be set. What does First Run mean, but the data is easily handled; those are different parts of the conversation. I think Tivo is already doing this. Or they were back when I was a customer.

Someone has to maintain the data. I assumed Stuart's rule of not changing the guide data meant not changing the source (as they seem to have no interest in doing that).

And I know that episode codes were (are) available on Dish as a friend who moved over from one to the other used to track if they watched a show by the episode code.


That is true, TiVo handled "first run" properly. Unfortunately, these DVRs still don't. I'm not sure what the guide data difference is, however. I am noticing that Dr Who is recording properly, even with the first run set. Are they airing the same date in US and UK?

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#9 OFFLINE   dxtrfn80

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 03:49 PM

Mr. Young on Disney XD falls victim as the episode dates are the Canada premier dates and it is very difficult to figure what is new and what is rerun, I hate to set it manually. And in addition every time when the program guide enters a new month if you set it to first run episodes some networks (Disney, etc.) have the general description and I end up with 30 instead of the 14 I had when I left for my trip. And I have to delete each one just in case but I am sure when the information comes in it deletes the planned recordings. People that record first run SpongeBob have their planned recordings around 100 shows as Nick is slow in receiving data to DTV and others.

Edited by dxtrfn80, 20 September 2012 - 03:54 PM.


#10 OFFLINE   KyL416

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 04:07 PM

Yeah Doctor Who is same day, just about 6 hours later and badly timed commercial breaks.

The listing provider handles listings for Canada, USA and parts of Latin America, not sure about the UK and Europe, they do serve some military bases so they might have some European channels in their database. Their database is shared among all of the countries, so for example Flashpoint is returning tonight on CTV in Canada, however since Ion doesn't want to bump reruns of Criminal Minds, the USA won't get it until mid-October so the dates will be off.

I haven't seen their raw data in a while, but they have a lot of details that isn't shown on our receivers like official episode/production numbers and premiere indicators. However the premiere thing is complicated. Many of the networks handle premieres on a per-network basis so I don't know if they pass them all. For example TeenNick's 90s block when it first began was the first time shows like Hey Dude and earlier seasons of All That were shown on the network so they were marked as premieres on the schedules Nickelodeon distributed, they also do similar things for Nicktoons when it comes to them airing shows like Power Rangers, Legend of Korra and Spongebob a week after they premiere on Nickelodeon. TeenNick sat on some series like H2O and we just got the final 39 episodes of the series earlier this year, despite the show actually wrapping up in 2009 so the listings had the previous airdates, while another Australian import called SLiDE, which was cancelled by the original network before TeenNick started airing it, it has the original Australian air dates.

Sometimes they did create seperate entries for the USA, but that created a mess with incomplete data when it came to imported series. They have a duplicate entry for My Babysitter's a Vampire, which is originally a Teletoon Canada series, the Teletoon series has full cast details, better descriptions and a poster, while the duplicate for Disney Channel is generic. The same goes for some Family Channel Canada imports that air on Starz Kids & Family like The Latest Buzz. When The N aired Degrassi Junior High and Degrassi High episodes during late night a few years ago, they created a duplicate entry called "Degrassi Old School" which had no episode and cast data.

Edited by KyL416, 20 September 2012 - 04:31 PM.


#11 OFFLINE   KyL416

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 04:28 PM

People that record first run SpongeBob have their planned recordings around 100 shows as Nick is slow in receiving data to DTV and others.

Blame the brilliant minds at Nickelodeon for that. For the past year they refuse to release episode specific listings for the weekend until Wednesday and the listings for the following week don't come out until Friday, so until 3 days prior everything in the EPG for the rest of the two weeks is their generic schedule. They say it's for "competition" purposes, yet since they started doing that, the only "competitve" result was Disney Channel dominating them in the ratings on a weekly basis. Nickelodeon also refuses to give promos alerting viewers to the next new episode if a show is a rerun the following week, while Disney Channel will air a promo telling you the specific day and time the next new episode is airing, even if it's a month from now. I currently know what's airing on Disney Channel througout October, while Nickelodeon can't even say what's airing on Monday. Even Cartoon Network and Disney XD have beaten them in some of the timeslots where it also invovled a different show airing in the timeslot.

Nicktoons had a marathon of Power Rangers Time Force, which was airing in full for the first time since 2003. It was the weekend of the convention, but they held out so long that the listings for the marathon wasn't realeased until Thursday night. Anyone who was going to the convention, most of who left on Wednesday and Thursday, couldn't set their DVRs, and some cable companies never got the listings update at all. Last Thanksgiving weekend, their brilliant programming department decided to premiere a team up special with the previous season of Power Rangers when most viewers were away. Not a SINGLE promo for it aired until an hour prior to it airing and the only mention of it being a teamup special was done by Matt Laurer during the Thanksgiving Parade on NBC.

It did backfire on them gloriously on the weekend of the Viacom dispute, they had all hands on deck focusing on spreading lies with propoganda popup ads on the web and in papers, they forgot to send the listings out for the first weekend, so not a single cable and satellite provider had the correct schedule until the Monday after. Even their own website was blank.

Viacom's executives are either completely oblivious to this or living in their own world since they are passing the blame to everyone but themselves, first at a Nielsen error, which was false, and now Netflix.

#12 OFFLINE   Drew2k

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 04:32 PM

I've seen the problem Stuart Sweet describes on Syfy's Merlin, which in the DIRECTV guide is listed with the Original Air Date of the British showing.

My recommendation to fix it? Do whatever TITANTV.com is doing, where the Merlin episodes here in the US were listed as "New" with the air date of the first Syfy showing.

#13 OFFLINE   swyman18

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 04:40 PM

Wheeler Dealers on Velocity falls into this category. It is a UK show, aired in the US about 6 months later. Need to set to 'Both' and then filter out the ones I know I've seen before.

#14 OFFLINE   tonyd79

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 05:02 PM

That is true, TiVo handled "first run" properly. Unfortunately, these DVRs still don't. I'm not sure what the guide data difference is, however. I am noticing that Dr Who is recording properly, even with the first run set. Are they airing the same date in US and UK?


TiVo massaged the data like I was suggesting. It was part of their service. Part of the reason to pay them.
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