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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Your remaining 'wish list' for Dish programming?


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60 replies to this topic

#26 OFFLINE   pfred

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 01:50 PM

Remove all SD Channels, and drop costs 25%.
Add:
BBC One
BBC Two
BBC Three
BBC Four
BBC HD
CBBC
BBC News Channel
BBC Parliament


Yeah right.
And I want
The Caribbean Fly Fishing Channel
The Mississippi Fly Fishing Channel
The Australia Fly Fishing Channel

Edited by pfred, 26 September 2012 - 01:50 PM.
typo


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#27 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 01:54 PM

All providers broadcast in "HD Lite" If you want real HD


False.
DTV = Digital Television

#28 OFFLINE   satlover25

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:17 PM

TvOne. I've been asking for it for years. I've waited patiently and I would hate to leave because of one channel, but as my signature shows, it's happening.
HR34
HR21
H25
2 Genie Mini Clients
16+ yrs w/Dish Network...finally had to let them go!

#29 OFFLINE   MCHuf

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 06:34 AM

False.


Great explanation! Now tell me who, outside of some PPV movies, broadcast in 1080p?

#30 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 06:59 AM

Great explanation! Now tell me who, outside of some PPV movies, broadcast in 1080p?


720p, 1080i, and 1080p are all real HD. HD-Lite is a specific term used to describe Dish Network's downsampling of all 1080i channels and reducing their picture quality. What you are thinking of is the marketing term "full HD" and that refers to 1080p.
DTV = Digital Television

#31 OFFLINE   fudpucker

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 08:22 AM

Maybe a better way to put it: the HD picture you get from OTA is visually better than what you get from the same show on satellite.

#32 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 10:49 AM

All providers broadcast in "HD Lite" If you want real HD, then you have to watch Blu-Rays.


All providers down-scale 1080i (which is 1920x1080 interlaced lines) to 1440x1080? That is what Dish appears to do, and that was the HD-Lite I was referring to.

What I would like to see is the full resolution provided by the network in question, but also use enough bandwidth to provide a signal as artifact-free as the original.

It simply makes no sense for Dish to provide channels in 1080p that are sourced to them as 1080i. Calling such a failure "HD Lite" robs the definition of meaning.

#33 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 10:53 AM

Maybe a better way to put it: the HD picture you get from OTA is visually better than what you get from the same show on satellite.


I get a much better picture from ESPN via satellite than OTA.

Local-into-Local is way over-compressed, at least what I've seen of it. But this was not the HD Lite I was referring to. LiL is bandwidth starved, and that is unlikely to change.

Comparing apples to apples, Dish's picture should provide as much detail and color depth as cable or DirecTV do, and it is here that I think Dish is failing to deliver.

#34 OFFLINE   inazsully

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 04:17 PM

I have read that FIOS utilizes the least amount of compression. I don't know if that's true. When it comes to compression of signals does anyone really know who does what? Are signals compressed equally on a night to night basis or a channel to channel basis? How about a show to show basis on the same channel? Also, at what distance from a 50" screen can the human eye tell the difference between 1080i at Full HD and HD Lite?

#35 OFFLINE   domingos35

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 06:27 PM

720p, 1080i, and 1080p are all real HD. HD-Lite is a specific term used to describe Dish Network's downsampling of all 1080i channels and reducing their picture quality. What you are thinking of is the marketing term "full HD" and that refers to 1080p.


funny thing is dish's HD looks better than directv's

#36 OFFLINE   Hoosier205

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 06:31 PM

funny thing is dish's HD looks better than directv's


If only that were possible
DTV = Digital Television

#37 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 06:35 PM

Please take your personal battle over HD quality to PM. That isn't what this thread is for.

#38 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 04:17 AM

How about a show to show basis on the same channel? Also, at what distance from a 50" screen can the human eye tell the difference between 1080i at Full HD and HD Lite?


I watched Frozen Planet on Discovery during my transition from DirecTV to Dish. I did not have both services simultaneously, so I could not do a true A/B comparison, but I think the comparison I made was valid. I used a 50" 1080p plasma television. Detail was visibly less on Dish, viewed at 8'. I also had to significantly boost color in my television settings to get a proper picture from the Hopper. Boosting leads to an increase in artifacts, in my experience, but sports like football appear totally washed out with settings that look correct for both Blu-Ray and DirecTV. In other words, color depth (which is an easy way to overcompress a signal) is very lacking on Dish. Another channel I frequently watch is the Tennis Channel, and again, my opinion was that Dish lacked that sharp-as-a-tack picture I had seen on DirecTV.

I don't think color depth would be viewing distance dependent. And a wall prevented me from viewing further away than 8' but I could see that the picture detail was less on Dish. Others have asserted the opposite - that Dish's picture is more detailed, but I haven't seen it. Some have argued that I was sitting too close to the television, but I was actually at the outside edge of THX's recommended viewing distance.

So my programming wish for Dish is not more channels (I have plenty, thank you) but a higher quality on existing channels. This obviously means dedicating more bandwidth, and since they are unlikely to be tossing bandwidth they have, would mean they must eliminate duplicate SD channels to create the space. I'd also
Ike to see a tuner for the Hopper, as local channels are terrible.

#39 OFFLINE   clotter

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:45 AM

AMC AMC AMC
Smithsonian HD
All the encore channels in HD

#40 OFFLINE   fudpucker

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 08:04 AM

I get a much better picture from ESPN via satellite than OTA.


How do you get ESPN with an OTA antenna?? I was talking about watching the local HD networks via OTA antenna -you get ESPN OTA?

#41 OFFLINE   inazsully

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 09:35 AM

How do you get ESPN with an OTA antenna?? I was talking about watching the local HD networks via OTA antenna -you get ESPN OTA?

Because I record so much content on a weekly basis I find myself recording at least 20 hours using OTA. Being the nosy person I am I can't help but compare OTA vs "E" PQ. Comparing nightly broadcasts like NCIS, Bones, Vampire Diaries, Blue Bloods, Castle, as well as NFL games on ESPN, CBS, and FOX, baseball games on FSNAZ and PAC-12 Channel, boxing on HBO and ESPN 2, I see no noticeable differences between OTA and "E". I really expected to and actually was hoping I would. I've asked my wife many times for her opinion and she agrees with me. Sony 60A3000.

#42 OFFLINE   sregener

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 04:05 AM

I see no noticeable differences between OTA and "E". I really expected to and actually was hoping I would.


Many people cannot see the differences. I wish I was one of them. And it no doubt varies by market - if the local spot beams are full, then they have to compress more than an area where the local spot beams have plenty of bandwidth.

The two things to look for are 1) color depth - how rich and vibrant are the colors? An overcompressed picture will look dull. And 2) pixelization - parts of the screen going to blocks. The blockiness is temporary, and almost always on visually busy screens, so it can be hard to detect.

I recorded the finale of American Idol last year, and as the confetti flew, the screen was a horrible mess of large pixels on Dish, but OTA was nearly perfect. Quite often on close-ups of performers, their faces had obvious lack of color depth - there were distinct visible lines from one color to the next making it almost look cartoonish. Honestly, it was quite hard for me to watch. I've seen less evidence of trouble in NFL broadcasts, so maybe things have improved.

#43 OFFLINE   Jim5506

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 07:26 AM

I want Dish to start fighting to drop the trash channels with which the providers pack their programming packages.

We don't need more channels, we need fewer channels of better quality.

Heaven knows we have more channels than we can watch and it is no longer anything to brag about that you have 250 channels of garbage.

Quality, not quantity.
Tuners: Hopper 2000; Hopper w/Sling; 3 Joeys; Samsung SIR-T351; Accurian 6000;2 X HD TiVo; 2 X TiVo Series 2 Stand alone; Panasonic Showstopper 2000
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#44 OFFLINE   tampa8

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 08:47 AM

I see no noticeable differences between OTA and "E".


Many people cannot see the differences. I wish I was one of them. And it no doubt varies by market - if the local spot beams are full, then they have to compress more than an area where the local spot beams have plenty of bandwidth.

The two things to look for are 1) color depth - how rich and vibrant are the colors? An overcompressed picture will look dull. And 2) pixelization - parts of the screen going to blocks. The blockiness is temporary, and almost always on visually busy screens, so it can be hard to detect.

I recorded the finale of American Idol last year, and as the confetti flew, the screen was a horrible mess of large pixels on Dish, but OTA was nearly perfect. Quite often on close-ups of performers, their faces had obvious lack of color depth - there were distinct visible lines from one color to the next making it almost look cartoonish. Honestly, it was quite hard for me to watch. I've seen less evidence of trouble in NFL broadcasts, so maybe things have improved.


I too have gone back and forth, closely looking at the same program, when possible same scene, looking at fine details like hair on arms, facial details, looking for artifacts. I look standing at the 55" LG screen, and at viewing distance,for me about 10 feet. I may see the most extreme slightest of difference as far that criteria goes, meaning no clarity or pixelization differences worth mentioning.

There is a slight, but a little more difference in the color saturation. Enough to set the OTA input with just a little less color saturation. Now that may mean there is a little less detail also, but I just can not see it.
We too have the last episode of American Idol on an EHD, so I looked at it. On the EA anyway, it has none of the problems noted. I can't compare it to OTA since I did not record it from there.

I can honestly say from normal viewing distance especially there is virtually no difference, or certainly not enough to be noticed. Different inputs have separate settings specifically for the things like different color saturation from different sources, so in the end, the color saturation is the same for both.
I don't doubt however it can be different on both sides for some people, satellite with maybe fuller HD spotbeams, or OTA with more or less sub channels. Screen size and quality of the TV also play a role. But I would say it is fair to say generally the Dish signal is at the least very close to OTA . If OTA is at this time the gold broadcasting standard, Dish is just about there. It's the end result, what you see that counts more than the technical numbers.
Contrast all that to Charter, many of my friends in Ct. where I am have, and you can most definitely see the difference. It's not subjective.

Edited by tampa8, 30 September 2012 - 08:53 AM.


#45 OFFLINE   bnewt

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 03:03 PM

AMC, Smithsonian, ESPNU, Disney, ABC Family, Fox Movie

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#46 OFFLINE   PBowie

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 10:24 AM

Fox Soccer + AND BEIN in HD !

#47 OFFLINE   siwsiw

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:40 AM

beIN HD, ESPNEWS HD, ESPNU HD, FXM HD

#48 OFFLINE   jajone13

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 07:50 PM

ESPNU HD

#49 OFFLINE   blackhillsjk

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 07:59 AM

ESPNU HD.....HHHMMMMMM, seems like a trend. Dish are you listening ? :rolleyes:

#50 OFFLINE   satcrazy

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 01:17 PM

Local OTA is not always HD.

MLB always looks great during a game. So did the world series on the local fox channel.

I believe it is all source stuff.

I noticed yesterday after Sons of anarchy was over on FX,[ picture was just fine] they ran "rescue me" [ I think that's what is was] and the picture was obviously compressed. I had to flip channels to see if there was a problem, but nope, the guide bar read HD, even though it wasn't.

Wish Dish would add all the Encore channels to HD. It's not much of a bonus of subbing to 250 if the picture is crappy.




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