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AllVid (and it's impact on DirecTV)


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29 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 07:03 AM

I wonder what the impact of AllVid will be on DirecTV?

Interesting article from yesterday:

http://www.multichan...a-server/139440


It's FiOS focused, but seems to affect the entire industry.

A few good links in the article.

And I wonder if this has somewhat to do with the HR34 RVU national rollout, though RVU is not AllVid, but I do remember DirecTV discussing RVU with the FCC.

Interesting stuff ...

Let's please try to keep this as it relates to DirecTV.
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#2 OFFLINE   JoeTheDragon

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 07:37 PM

now how will outlet / mirroring / tv / client fees fit into that the FCC view of allvid / RVU???

I think that under there view the main box needs to be part of the base price and there idea of a main box is one that is not hooked to a tv. And the forced DRV / and HD fee for the box is likely a no go as well.

Also I don't think they will like the idea of a outlet / mirroring / tv / client fee for each viewing point as that just about kills the idea of useing your own box when outlet fees are just about the same price as renting.

Now I can see Directv being forced to like the cable card law to take the price of the box rent out of the outlet mirroring / tv / client fees.
I want CLTV / CLTV HD on direct tv.

#3 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 08:31 PM

now how will outlet / mirroring / tv / client fees fit into that the FCC view of allvid / RVU???

I think that under there view the main box needs to be part of the base price and there idea of a main box is one that is not hooked to a tv. And the forced DRV / and HD fee for the box is likely a no go as well.

Also I don't think they will like the idea of a outlet / mirroring / tv / client fee for each viewing point as that just about kills the idea of useing your own box when outlet fees are just about the same price as renting.

Now I can see Directv being forced to like the cable card law to take the price of the box rent out of the outlet mirroring / tv / client fees.


DIRECTV does not incorporate any equipment charges into the monthly fee. This is why you pay an upfront fee one time.
All comments are my own. Unless specifically stated, my views do NOT represent the views of DIRECTV

#4 OFFLINE   mdavej

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 08:44 PM

DIRECTV does not incorporate any equipment charges into the monthly fee. This is why you pay an upfront fee one time.

Then why is a mirror fee greater than zero?

Back to the original topic, I can already do this today with cable. My Xboxes can access all my subscribed cable tv channels as well as all my shared media, all for no monthly fee (mirror or equipment fee, whatever you want to pretend it is) except for the cable card, which is $2. Motorola is simply trying to compete with the upcoming Ceton Q which will do the same thing.

Edited by mdavej, 26 September 2012 - 08:50 PM.


#5 OFFLINE   wahooq

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 08:50 PM

mirroring is a programming cost...nada to do with equipment
My comments and opinions are my own and not necessarily those of DirecTV.

#6 OFFLINE   JoeTheDragon

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 10:14 PM

DIRECTV does not incorporate any equipment charges into the monthly fee. This is why you pay an upfront fee one time.


the base outlet / outlet / mirroring for box 1 is part of the base rate just like cable and on cable with 1 cable card in place of the base box you get a small bill credit.

Now on comcast is a real mixed mag with lot's of varying from area to area.

If you need a HD fee or not (or a HD cable card fee) and or with cards on tv's after the 1st one have a outlet fee.
I want CLTV / CLTV HD on direct tv.

#7 OFFLINE   JoeTheDragon

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 10:40 PM

mirroring is a programming cost...nada to do with equipment


then why rent the same cost as the mirroring or outlet fee.

Why was a push to make rent fee be split out from the cable


In canada after some quick Google.

I have found that most systems have RENT to own or buy up front and rent or buy.

as for outlet most give you 3-4 outlets as part of the base pack and I have found also one monthly fee includes all additional active outlets.

SHAW GATEWAY EXPERIENCE page says up 6 Total Home Portals (hardware limit) with no talk of outlet fees.

A us cable system offer the same thing with INSANE rent fees.

If any thing comes from ALL vid or the canada system.

http://stopthecap.co...rental-charges/


Also that can stop BS like this

http://www.dslreport...-Us-2345-121353

pay full price for 6 year boxes.
I want CLTV / CLTV HD on direct tv.

#8 OFFLINE   mdavej

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 10:51 PM

mirroring is a programming cost...nada to do with equipment

I call BS. Taking the cable example, I can split my incoming cable feed (or sat receiver output) to any number of tvs and pay nothing extra. How exactly is the "programming cost" for all those tvs recovered? I only incur a cost when I get a device from the service provider in order to view the content.

Similarly, I can stream all I want to any number of devices at no additional cost. In this case, the only difference in incurring a mirror fee or not is whether or not there is any equipment from the service provider involved. Why doesn't DirecTV charge me for streaming? That's mirroring and additional "programming costs" too.

I contend that the programming cost is zero and that mirroring is simply an extra charge that satellite companies can get away with thanks to the FCC making cable and satellite play by different rules. What does it matter how many devices I use to view the programming I've paid for once it enters my house?

Edited by mdavej, 26 September 2012 - 11:03 PM.


#9 OFFLINE   Davenlr

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:08 PM

mdavej: I can see both sides. If you watch two simultaneous programs in different rooms that would be different than having one program available in multiple rooms. You can do the latter now with DirecTv for no extra charge (I have my box distrubuted house wide, and available on the internet as well if I am away from home), but its a one channel at a time deal. If I want two channels at a time, even with Comcast, I need a second box ($). Now, Comcast does allow up to 2 or 3 digital transport adapters free, in addition to the main box. DirecTv should follow suit with the C31. There is no way I would pay a mirror fee when its not mirrored, but just using a tuner in the HR34 I am already paying for programming on.

I,E. There should not be any charge for an RVU client, except one time for the hardware (if you arent using your own hardware).

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#10 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 02:39 AM

I call BS. Taking the cable example, I can split my incoming cable feed (or sat receiver output) to any number of tvs and pay nothing extra. How exactly is the "programming cost" for all those tvs recovered? I only incur a cost when I get a device from the service provider in order to view the content.

Similarly, I can stream all I want to any number of devices at no additional cost. In this case, the only difference in incurring a mirror fee or not is whether or not there is any equipment from the service provider involved. Why doesn't DirecTV charge me for streaming? That's mirroring and additional "programming costs" too.

I contend that the programming cost is zero and that mirroring is simply an extra charge that satellite companies can get away with thanks to the FCC making cable and satellite play by different rules. What does it matter how many devices I use to view the programming I've paid for once it enters my house?


Then how do you explain the 12 years DIRECTV charged for this before it was leased. Are you attempting to imply that people paid a monthly fee for owned equipment and no one was ever smart enough to say "Hey I own my equipment why do I pay this fee?".

When DBS launched you paid a package per receiver. Mirroring came in later, along with the mandatory phone charge, because people were worried about piracy, and so if validated it could be mirrored and rather than pay an entire base package price a smaller fee was setup per receiver. Back in the days of "basic" cable this fee was actually something that could make DBS higher priced than cable. Once more channels started going digital the playing field leveled out.

So you can think it's BS all you want but it doesn't change what it is.
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#11 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 06:40 AM

I'm sorry, but DirecTV can't have it both ways. Either the $6 per month is a program mirroring fee and the upfront hardware costs are a purchase, or (at least a portion of) the $6 is a hardware lease fee and the upfront is capital cost reduction fee.

In other words, if they are "leasing" us our receivers then the monthly outlet fee is, at least in part, a payment against that lease.

If they want to maintain that there is no hardware payment at all in the $6 per month, then they are not leasing the hardware, they are loaning it. If that's the case, then what is the upfront fee for? To be consistent with the generally accepted practice regarding loaned equipment, the upfront cost would have to be a deposit, which would either have to be refunded or disclosed as non-refundable at contract execution.

Edited by Diana C, 27 September 2012 - 06:45 AM.

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#12 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 06:54 AM

I wonder what the impact of AllVid will be on DirecTV?

Interesting article from yesterday:

http://www.multichan...a-server/139440


It's FiOS focused, but seems to affect the entire industry.

A few good links in the article.

And I wonder if this has somewhat to do with the HR34 RVU national rollout, though RVU is not AllVid, but I do remember DirecTV discussing RVU with the FCC.

Interesting stuff ...

Let's please try to keep this as it relates to DirecTV.


The satellite operators were exempt from Cablecard, so they may be exempt from this as well. Clearly, the market is moving to a "one wire" approach (even if the "wire" is virtual, i.e. wireless). FiOS has an advantage here in that they already delivery voice, data and video over a single IP architecture, but the cable providers are close behind. Whether DirecTV is mandated to comply with the open standards or not, they will be forced by the market to provide a solution. I think that's what RVU is about.

Whether the solution is AllVid, RVU or something else, the consumer will demand a way to deliver multiple entertainment sources (linear video, iptv, etc.) to their super flat LCD TVs without the need for 4 or more boxes and associated cabling. The providers that fail to do so will be at a market disadvantage.

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#13 OFFLINE   JoeTheDragon

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 07:14 AM

I'm sorry, but DirecTV can't have it both ways. Either the $6 per month is a program mirroring fee and the upfront hardware costs are a purchase, or (at least a portion of) the $6 is a hardware lease fee and the upfront is capital cost reduction fee.

In other words, if they are "leasing" us our receivers then the monthly outlet fee is, at least in part, a payment against that lease.

If they want to maintain that there is no hardware payment at all in the $6 per month, then they are not leasing the hardware, they are loaning it. If that's the case, then what is the upfront fee for? To be consistent with the generally accepted practice regarding loaned equipment, the upfront cost would have to be a deposit, which would either have to be refunded or disclosed as non-refundable at contract execution.


well cable has at least did have upfront activation or other fees to add a DVR or to swap a non dvr box to a DVR box.
I want CLTV / CLTV HD on direct tv.

#14 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 07:40 AM

well cable has at least did have upfront activation or other fees to add a DVR or to swap a non dvr box to a DVR box.


Sure, but the point is that DirecTV SAYS they are leasing us the receivers. If that is the case, then at least part of the $6/month is the equipment lease payment.

The cable companies make it clear that they are charging for equipment monthly (i.e. leasing it) and the upfront fee, in this case, is a capital cost reduction (like when you lease a car).

DirecTV can't say on the one hand that they are leasing us the receivers and then turn around and say they aren't charging us a lease fee.

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#15 OFFLINE   jmpfaff

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 01:01 PM

I contend that the programming cost is zero and that mirroring is simply an extra charge that satellite companies can get away with thanks to the FCC making cable and satellite play by different rules. What does it matter how many devices I use to view the programming I've paid for once it enters my house?


I completely agree with you, and it boils down to the following question:

When I "mirror" my programming to an additional box, does ESPN/HBO/Viacom/etc. get additional monthly payment from DirecTV? Or does DirecTV keep the entire $6?

#16 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 01:13 PM

Sure, but the point is that DirecTV SAYS they are leasing us the receivers. If that is the case, then at least part of the $6/month is the equipment lease payment.

The cable companies make it clear that they are charging for equipment monthly (i.e. leasing it) and the upfront fee, in this case, is a capital cost reduction (like when you lease a car).

DirecTV can't say on the one hand that they are leasing us the receivers and then turn around and say they aren't charging us a lease fee.


I haven't had cable equipment recently that I haven't owned but the last legal terminology I saw from them was renting not leasing.

DIRECTV charges it's lease price up front but it's still a lease. A lease does not require monthy payments. Because it's a lease you set a specific fee for the use of the property. When renting no set fee is there. If DIRECTV did do monthy equipment payments they would have to stop charging after they hit a certain dollar amount specified as the lease price.

I hate using car analogies but I will. Please bear in mind that this is an oversimplified analogy for purposes of clarification not to compare/contrast the business models.

If you went to a dealer to lease a car they may require a certain amount down and a monthly payment. However somewhere in the paperwork will be a total charge for the lease period. You could pay this up front and not have a monthly payment for the entire duration of the lease. This is what DIRECTV does.
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#17 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 03:50 PM

I haven't had cable equipment recently that I haven't owned but the last legal terminology I saw from them was renting not leasing.

DIRECTV charges it's lease price up front but it's still a lease. A lease does not require monthy payments. Because it's a lease you set a specific fee for the use of the property. When renting no set fee is there. If DIRECTV did do monthy equipment payments they would have to stop charging after they hit a certain dollar amount specified as the lease price.

I hate using car analogies but I will. Please bear in mind that this is an oversimplified analogy for purposes of clarification not to compare/contrast the business models.

If you went to a dealer to lease a car they may require a certain amount down and a monthly payment. However somewhere in the paperwork will be a total charge for the lease period. You could pay this up front and not have a monthly payment for the entire duration of the lease. This is what DIRECTV does.


Okay, then what is the term of the lease?

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#18 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 07:21 PM

Okay, then what is the term of the lease?


Equipment lease cost is determined at time of lease purchase. The lease agreement is here: http://www.directv.c..._lease_addendum
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#19 OFFLINE   jmpfaff

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 08:15 PM

Equipment lease cost is determined at time of lease purchase. The lease agreement is here: http://www.directv.c..._lease_addendum


So if the $6 per month is a programming fee....why is it listed in Part 2 of the equipment lease addendum? As noted in Part 1 of the addendum, the programming agreement is separate from this addendum.

Also, I believe Titan was actually asking about the end term of the lease. Leases are a set fee for a set period of time.

#20 OFFLINE   Shades228

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 08:23 PM

So if the $6 per month is a programming fee....why is it listed in Part 2 of the equipment lease addendum? As noted in Part 1 of the addendum, the programming agreement is separate from this addendum.

Also, I believe Titan was actually asking about the end term of the lease. Leases are a set fee for a set period of time.


You have to pay programming costs on the receiver which is why it's listed. If that information wasn't in there then you could state they can't charge you that on leased equipment only owned equipment as the lease terms don't cover it.

The end terms are listed in there when it talks about what happens after the agreement ends and in the equipment return section.
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