Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

SWM16 install question


  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Andy S

Andy S

    New Member

  • Registered
  • 8 posts
Joined: Jan 22, 2007

Posted 26 September 2012 - 09:05 AM

I added an HR34 to my system yesterday and the installer wired a little different than I expected. I previously had a slimline dish with SWM that fed into my distribution box to a green label 8 port splitter. Into the splitter I had 3 HD DVR's and 1 HD receiver. I also had a PI 21 power inserter and a DECA running into the splitter. I had expected the installer to change the dish to an SL3/SL5 and install a SWM16 near the dish running 3 cables back to the box. One for each SWM leg and one for the power inserter. Since I had 4 cables in the soffit running to my distribution box there were no cable issues. However, he only used two cables (one for each SWM leg) and in the distribution box he ran one leg into the power inserter and then passed in into the 8 port splitter. He left the 3 HD DVR's on this side with the DECA. He connected the other leg to a two port splitter and passed it on to the HR34 and capped the other side. My questions are:
1) is it OK to run the PI into the splitter rather than the port on the SWM16?
2) can't I just use a barrel connector for the HR34 leg rather than a 2 way splitter? Isn't there a signal loss with the splitter?
3) shouldn't he have changed the 8 port splitter to a 4 port splitter, again to minimize signal loss? I now have 4 ports capped off on an 8 port splitter.
Everything seems to work fine but I want to make sure it is optimized.

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#2 ONLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,863 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 26 September 2012 - 09:12 AM

  • there are 2 ways to power the -16, so what he used is fine.
  • If you only have one coax, then you don't need the splitter
  • While I don't like 8-way splitters, "loss" isn't going to have an affect until you use very long coax runs. If the receiver is receiving above -60 dBm, it won't work any better if it has -50 dBm.

A.K.A VOS

#3 OFFLINE   Andy S

Andy S

    New Member

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered
  • 8 posts
Joined: Jan 22, 2007

Posted 26 September 2012 - 09:26 AM

Thanks for the quick reply VOS. So I can remove the 2 way green label splitter and use a barrel connector for the HR34 leg? I assume there are not special green label barrel connectors. And all my receivers are within 75 feet of the 8 port splitter so I should leave that alone?

#4 OFFLINE   funnyfarm299

funnyfarm299

    AllStar

  • Registered
  • 90 posts
Joined: Mar 03, 2012

Posted 26 September 2012 - 09:28 AM

Thanks for the quick reply VOS. So I can remove the 2 way green label splitter and use a barrel connector for the HR34 leg? I assume there are not special green label barrel connectors. And all my receivers are within 75 feet of the 8 port splitter so I should leave that alone?


A barrel is a barrel.
LR: 50" Samsung plasma, Samsung bluray, HR24, H25, Roku, Denon AVR-1912, URC MX-450 with RF.

BR1: 32" Sony LCD, H25, SnapAV HDMI balun.

BR2: 32" Acer LCD, H25, Xbox 360.

Bonus: 73" mitsubishi 73742, HR24, SnapAV HDMI balun

#5 ONLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,863 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 26 September 2012 - 09:40 AM

Thanks for the quick reply VOS. So I can remove the 2 way green label splitter and use a barrel connector for the HR34 leg? I assume there are not special green label barrel connectors. And all my receivers are within 75 feet of the 8 port splitter so I should leave that alone?

Your installer sounds like he did a good job. You can tweak your setup anyway you want, but won't really see any improvements either.
You'd need to be around 150'.
A.K.A VOS

#6 OFFLINE   dielray

dielray

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 234 posts
Joined: Aug 05, 2009

Posted 26 September 2012 - 10:25 AM

Another thing to consider is you don't want the power level too high going into the HR34. If the line length between the SWM16 and HR34 is short, it would be best to keep the 2way attached.
DirecTV Technician
My thoughts and opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of DirecTV, my HSP, or anyone else.

#7 ONLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,863 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:03 AM

Another thing to consider is you don't want the power level too high going into the HR34. If the line length between the SWM16 and HR34 is short, it would be best to keep the 2way attached.

That shouldn't ever be a problem. The tuner chip is spec'd to -20 dBm, and that's above what the SWiM outputs.
A.K.A VOS

#8 OFFLINE   dielray

dielray

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 234 posts
Joined: Aug 05, 2009

Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:27 AM

That shouldn't ever be a problem. The tuner chip is spec'd to -20 dBm, and that's above what the SWiM outputs.


There has been the occasional issue with the signal being too strong as it enters the IRD. Without being there to measure, I don't want to second guess the tech's reason of putting in a 2way. Although very atypical, I had a service call yesterday where the LNB was outputting -10 to -20 dBm. I guess it's just fresh in my mind.
DirecTV Technician
My thoughts and opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of DirecTV, my HSP, or anyone else.

#9 ONLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,863 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:38 AM

There has been the occasional issue with the signal being too strong as it enters the IRD. Without being there to measure, I don't want to second guess the tech's reason of putting in a 2way. Although very atypical, I had a service call yesterday where the LNB was outputting -10 to -20 dBm. I guess it's just fresh in my mind.

Legacy or SWiM?
The SWiM would be defective if it was, because of it's AGC.
-26 dBm sure, but above -20 dBm? :confused:
A.K.A VOS

#10 OFFLINE   dielray

dielray

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 234 posts
Joined: Aug 05, 2009

Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:53 AM

Legacy or SWiM?
The SWiM would be defective if it was, because of it's AGC.
-26 dBm sure, but above -20 dBm? :confused:


It was a legacy 3. It behaved very oddly with the BBCs even though it had attenuated to about -30 dBm before it hit them. The highest I've seen a SWM LNB output is ~-22 dBm. It isn't common, but I have seen receivers needing to be attenuated to -30 dBm or so to get readings that match the AIM.
DirecTV Technician
My thoughts and opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of DirecTV, my HSP, or anyone else.

#11 ONLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,863 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 26 September 2012 - 12:00 PM

It was a legacy 3. It behaved very oddly with the BBCs even though it had attenuated to about -30 dBm before it hit them. The highest I've seen a SWM LNB output is ~-22 dBm. It isn't common, but I have seen receivers needing to be attenuated to -30 dBm or so to get readings that match the AIM.

"Yeah" on a good day a legacy can be as high as -17 to -15 dBm.

The SWiM AGC range is -15 to -45 dBm, so it should never get to a receiver at -20 dBm.

I don't quite understand "to get readings to match the AIM". :confused:
A.K.A VOS

#12 OFFLINE   dielray

dielray

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 234 posts
Joined: Aug 05, 2009

Posted 26 September 2012 - 12:17 PM

"Yeah" on a good day a legacy can be as high as -17 to -15 dBm.

The SWiM AGC range is -15 to -45 dBm, so it should never get to a receiver at -20 dBm.

I don't quite understand "to get readings to match the AIM". :confused:


I mean the numbers on the receiver screen matching the AIM's SQ value.

For the most part it isn't likely to overpower a receiver, but combine an LNB with an uncommonly high output power, no splitter and short runs and it can be done.

Typical output power in my area for a legacy WNC LNB is between -27 dBm and -30 dBm. SWM LNBs are higher in peaking mode, but about the same in sat tune.
DirecTV Technician
My thoughts and opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of DirecTV, my HSP, or anyone else.

#13 ONLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,863 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 26 September 2012 - 01:37 PM

I mean the numbers on the receiver screen matching the AIM's SQ value.

For the most part it isn't likely to overpower a receiver, but combine an LNB with an uncommonly high output power, no splitter and short runs and it can be done.

Typical output power in my area for a legacy WNC LNB is between -27 dBm and -30 dBm. SWM LNBs are higher in peaking mode, but about the same in sat tune.

I could see a rare case with a legacy, but not with the SWiM, which was the thread topic.
A.K.A VOS

#14 OFFLINE   dielray

dielray

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 234 posts
Joined: Aug 05, 2009

Posted 26 September 2012 - 03:37 PM

I could see a rare case with a legacy, but not with the SWiM, which was the thread topic.


Upon further inspection, you are right. I kept going back to memory of a tech bulletin indicating the need to attenuate the signal on very short runs, but I found the bulletin and it is just an issue with HR21/22/R22-100s.

I also checked it by taking the LNB from yesterday and connecting it straight to a SWM16. The 99 transponder 1 was -15 dBm before the switch, -26 dBm on SWM1, -28 dBm on SWM2, and -36 dBm on legacy 4.
DirecTV Technician
My thoughts and opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of DirecTV, my HSP, or anyone else.

#15 ONLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,863 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 26 September 2012 - 03:40 PM

Upon further inspection, you are right. I kept going back to memory of a tech bulletin indicating the need to attenuate the signal on very short runs, but I found the bulletin and it is just an issue with HR21/22/R22-100s.

I also checked it by taking the LNB from yesterday and connecting it straight to a SWM16. The 99 transponder 1 was -15 dBm before the switch, -26 dBm on SWM1, -28 dBm on SWM2, and -36 dBm on legacy 4.

You're a "good guy", but "most of the time" I kind of know what I'm talking about. I really do live and breath RF. :lol:
A.K.A VOS

#16 OFFLINE   dielray

dielray

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 234 posts
Joined: Aug 05, 2009

Posted 26 September 2012 - 03:48 PM

You're a "good guy", but "most of the time" I kind of know what I'm talking about. I really do live and breath RF. :lol:


Indeed. You know your stuff. It's always exciting for me to learn something new or to correct improper knowledge that I may have. Thank you. :)

Edited by dielray, 26 September 2012 - 04:48 PM.

DirecTV Technician
My thoughts and opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of DirecTV, my HSP, or anyone else.

#17 ONLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,863 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 26 September 2012 - 04:30 PM

Indeed. You know your stuff. It's always exiting for me to learn something new or to correct improper knowledge that I may have. Thank you. :)

Please don't leave. !rolling

You have also been a source of good information.
A.K.A VOS

#18 OFFLINE   wallfishman

wallfishman

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 509 posts
Joined: Dec 31, 2008

Posted 26 September 2012 - 04:48 PM

Upon further inspection, you are right. I kept going back to memory of a tech bulletin indicating the need to attenuate the signal on very short runs, but I found the bulletin and it is just an issue with HR21/22/R22-100s.

I also checked it by taking the LNB from yesterday and connecting it straight to a SWM16. The 99 transponder 1 was -15 dBm before the switch, -26 dBm on SWM1, -28 dBm on SWM2, and -36 dBm on legacy 4.


that particular issue was years ago. you had to either put an 8way or a 50 ft jumper inline to get them to pass IV. That dont seem to be an issue anymore.

#19 OFFLINE   dielray

dielray

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 234 posts
Joined: Aug 05, 2009

Posted 26 September 2012 - 04:49 PM

Please don't leave. !rolling

What a typo :lol:

that particular issue was years ago. you had to either put an 8way or a 50 ft jumper inline to get them to pass IV. That dont seem to be an issue anymore.

That may be. I haven't put in any HR21/22/R22-100s on very short runs for quite some time.

Edited by dielray, 26 September 2012 - 04:58 PM.

DirecTV Technician
My thoughts and opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of DirecTV, my HSP, or anyone else.

#20 OFFLINE   Ken Stomski

Ken Stomski

    Mentor

  • Registered
  • 71 posts
Joined: Nov 17, 2011

Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:38 PM

A barrel is a barrel.



Actually, a barrel isn't a barrel. It should be "high-pass" to "ensure" passage of all frequencies used within a Directv system. These are usually blue instead of white or clear on the inside, although the newer ones coming out are orange. I have done alot of troubleshooting of motel directv systems and those older barrel connectors are at fault 50% of the time.




Protected By... spam firewall...And...