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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Tired of shows getting chopped!


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53 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   SingleAction

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 07:39 AM

What I'm talking about is when you set a timer to record a network show on the DVR, the beginning has the ending of the previous show, and the end of the show your watching is chopped off so you don't see from 1-2.5 mins of the end and previews.

At first I thought it was the VIP622 that I had to replace after over 5 years, but the replacement does the same thing.

If I can, I have to extend every show by 5 mins so I don't miss the end!

It does this on all channels.

I know it's not the broadcasters, but Dish. I spend the winter in Florida, and have cable with a DVR, and watching the same network and shows, they start and end without a problem.

I'm sure I'm not the only one having this "problem"

Can anyone explain the reason for this annoyance?

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#2 OFFLINE   dmspen

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 07:48 AM

I'm with ya! I can't count how many shows get chopped - and of course that's where a future plot is started in the shows.

Many shows I can just go to the recording of the show after it, but not always. Some are very bad. I don't know that it's DISH's fault. It may be the timing of the guide...

#3 OFFLINE   fudpucker

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 08:18 AM

Ya know, I know the response is that the networks extend shows a minute or so past the scheduled stop time to discourage DVR usage. And I don't doubt that's true. And I understand that if this is true, then even if I set the end time to be 3 minutes late, if the timer switches to another channel to record another show that last bit will get cut off. It is a REAL irritation.

But here is what I don't understand. I had DirectTV until very recently, and my DVR only had two tuners, and so it should have had the exact same problem. We set up the Dish DVRs with the same programs and schedules we had with the DirectTV ones. But we never had this problem with DirectTV. It only showed up when we switched to Dish. I don't know if they get around it with the way their buffers are set up (I much preferred how I could switch between two channels on DirectTV and not lose my buffer like you do with Dish) or if they had some other "trick" but for whatever reason this just wasn't a problem for us with DirectTV and I don't know a way around it. It is maddening to have the last 30 seconds of a tense ending cut off because I've got two other shows being recorded at the end of this one, but it happens all the time. All the time. We groan when we see a recording that shows 1.00 in length, because we know with a certainty we will miss the last short bit at the end.

#4 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 08:28 AM

DISH has a rather unfortunate habit of rounding the guide times to the nearest half hour. If you look at the TitanTV listings, several shows are actually scheduled to start or end a minute or two early/late.

This conditioning of the guide data needs to stop.

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#5 OFFLINE   SingleAction

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 08:30 AM

After all the DVR is just a computer, and if you check the time it shows, and the time it says in the guide, if a show starts at 9pm and ends at 10pm, I can understand a lapse of 15sec +or_, but not mins. into the next show like a chain reaction.

CBS started doing this on Sunday nights some years ago, and ruin prime time shows that people with DVR's recorded. 60 Minutes would run more then 30 mins. over ruining the entire eveing recordings! I called it the kiss of death for any show that came after "90 Minutes".

This is the networks fault and is not the same as with the guide or timer settings. What I'm trying to say is the clock shows the correct time, and the guide shows the corect start/stop time. It should work, but for some reason every show is delayed for a large amout of time, in a nut shell.

#6 OFFLINE   bobl

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 09:48 AM

The problwm is Dish rounds their guide to the nearest five minutes (not thirty minutes)while DirecTV rounds to the nearest minute. Programmers begin the problem by not always ending programs on the hour, or half hour, but Dish exacerbates it by having their guide broken down ito increments no smaller than five minutes.

#7 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 10:04 AM

But we never had this problem with DirectTV. It only showed up when we switched to Dish.

DIRECTV should be commended for the way they handle this. When shows overlap on the same channel, the DVR seems to record both programs off the same tuner. This may be why DIRECTV couldn't manage to record more than two channels at a time (as was claimed in early documentation).

Unless this is not possible, DISH needs to adopt this technique as well as eliminating the guide rounding.

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#8 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 10:10 AM

The problwm is Dish rounds their guide to the nearest five minutes (not thirty minutes)while DirecTV rounds to the nearest minute.

If you test it, I think you'll find that a show that begins at 9:03 will begin recording at 9:00, not 9:05 as you suggest. Maybe you meant to say that the start times were rounded to the beginning of the five minute interval?

Rounding is bad any way you look at it but if it means the difference between being able to record a show or not because of a one or two minute overlap, sometimes you have to make a leap.

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#9 OFFLINE   SingleAction

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 10:55 AM

So, from what everyone is saying, is that Dish has the means to correct this problem, but has done nothing about it.

I started with Dish when they had their 1st DVR the Dishplayer.
It's been so long, I don't remember, but this is the worst:nono:

Harsh, so you are saying that the networks are partly to blame for this, but it also happens with the cable channels.

So I guess Brighthouse cable also compensates for this delay?

Edited by SingleAction, 27 September 2012 - 11:02 AM.


#10 OFFLINE   Orion9

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 11:13 AM

And I understand that if this is true, then even if I set the end time to be 3 minutes late, if the timer switches to another channel to record another show that last bit will get cut off. It is a REAL irritation.


Something that took me a bit to understand is that 3 minutes on the end means "soft pad". Meaning, it's OK to cut off if you need to to get another show. So if it's happening a lot to a specific/important show, set it/them to 5 minutes and then it will always record the extra. Of course, this means it won't be able to record another show immediately after with the same tuner, but you/it may be able to work around that issue as many shows have another showing that can be picked up instead.

That might get you by until(if) Dish does something to improve the guide data.

#11 OFFLINE   tymekeeper

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:42 PM

Another big problem is if you are recording two programs back to back and overlap the times you can not watch another program live. Really bad now for monday night football. I try and not record back to back and record the second showing.

#12 OFFLINE   Michael P

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:45 PM

The 3 minute pad is not a "soft pad" If that pad is selected the only way to lose that pad is to manually stop the recording.

As far as the 60 minutes example goes, you can thank the NFL coverage on CBS for the odd start times on Sundays. CBS will run the entire Sunday prime time schedule after the end of the last "late" game (formerly a 4:05 or 4:15 start time late games now start at 4:30). FOX OTOH does not schedule anything important at 7:00 PM, instead they schedule a post game show that is flexible - that is it runs until the top or bottom of the hour so that the Sunday PT shows start on time, even when a late game runs late (they just cancel the 7:30 cartoon show so that the 8:00 Simpsons almost always starts on time).

#13 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 01:13 PM

The only time a Dish DVR stops recording one thing and moves to another thing is IF you use the default start/end padding AND record back-to-back shows on the same channel.

IF you do that, then it does cut-off ends of some shows that run long and you'd have to watch the other recording afterwards... but then the end of that show is probably cut off.

I've posted before in other similar threads... I set all my shows to start 2 min early and run 3 min late. That is good for MOST shows... but every once in a while I too miss the end of something that runs long... so 5 min end padding is probably the safest.

Those who swear their cable DVR is not cutting off shows? Well, they must have a setting to go 3-5 minutes long.

Dish receivers do sometimes glitch and truncate recordings... but that's a problem being worked.

The problem MOST people are talking about are networks that run shows several minutes past the hour just to mess with you if you are recording them, because they want you to watch live.

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#14 OFFLINE   Ray C@DISH Network

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 01:31 PM

As Stewart Vernon stated, the networks either shorten or lengthen when they begin or end a program. Thanks.

So, from what everyone is saying, is that Dish has the means to correct this problem, but has done nothing about it.

I started with Dish when they had their 1st DVR the Dishplayer.
It's been so long, I don't remember, but this is the worst:nono:

Harsh, so you are saying that the networks are partly to blame for this, but it also happens with the cable channels.

So I guess Brighthouse cable also compensates for this delay?



#15 OFFLINE   Wolfpanther

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 01:31 PM

I have both Dish and Brighthouse in Central Florida and I have to set extra time on the Brighthouse DVR or it cuts off

#16 OFFLINE   mweathers

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 01:39 PM

I have also been having this issue with the Hopper. I never get all of The Daily Show on Comedy Central. Had to increase by 5 minutes to get. I've had to go this with quite a few timers already since new season started. So far, no scheduling conflicts though.

Wish they would get this taken care of!!! Very frustrating. And it appears to be system wide.

#17 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 08:13 PM

I have also been having this issue with the Hopper. I never get all of The Daily Show on Comedy Central. Had to increase by 5 minutes to get. I've had to go this with quite a few timers already since new season started. So far, no scheduling conflicts though.

Wish they would get this taken care of!!! Very frustrating. And it appears to be system wide.


It isn't something for Dish to fix. It is the networks running their shows long.

I have this with some shows regularly on USA and Comedy Central too.

Nothing Dish can do when the network runs shows longer than they say they will.

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#18 OFFLINE   Orion9

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 09:32 PM

The 3 minute pad is not a "soft pad" If that pad is selected the only way to lose that pad is to manually stop the recording.


Does this vary by model? On my 722 a 3 minute pad only gets recorded about 80% of the time.

#19 OFFLINE   n0qcu

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 11:28 PM

The 3 minute pad is not a "soft pad" If that pad is selected the only way to lose that pad is to manually stop the recording.


That is absolutely WRONG. The three minute pad can and does get dropped anytime the tuner is needed to record a show immediately following the one it is currently recording.
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#20 OFFLINE   n0qcu

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 11:33 PM

It isn't something for Dish to fix. It is the networks running their shows long.

.


Yes it is something for DISH to fix.

If DISH would do like all the other programming distributors and have their guide go to the actual minute that the program is scheduled to end instead of having the guide cutting it off on the hour the problem would not exist.
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#21 OFFLINE   phrelin

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:28 AM

A few years ago I suggested that they give us the ability to set a recording to start late. Relying on the guide doesn't solve the problem if you have two shows starting at 9 PM, with a previous one ending at 9 PM and one ending at 9:02 PM. Something has to give and I'd prefer to choose. Some programs consistently begin with a "previously on" and opening titles which I could choose to miss.

If you can set a timer to start early, surely a start late option could be done.

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#22 OFFLINE   FarmerBob

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 01:07 AM

And actually programming was made to end early and the next one start early. OF WHICH TiVo allows for this when you add time to a trailing timer, it understands that the previous program has ended early and allows you to adjust both to resolve the conflict. Which I never really had with TiVo. But DISH boxes will not let you do this "sophisticated" level of adjustment without convulsing. But the problem was mainly the major networks, not cable. So the current timer issues that are affecting all timers on all types of channels is a DISH issue, not network. And I have notice recently that timers in general are just plain not working as they should and the recorded time of the programming is not what it should be naturally. I have been tracking this for years and have hundreds of photos as evidence.

Unfortunately, as time has gone on timers have gotten worse. While network programming has backed off on the time adjusting somewhat. And the bad guide info via Tribune which doesn't help. I have not see any of this on my neighbors Comcast or DTV systems, who want to move to DISH but won't because of this. I have a sneaking suspicion that DISH can't make the timers work properly without infringing on TiVo's patents that Charlie could have bought a couple of years ago when TiVo was ripe for the picking. So now we the viewers have to suffer for his shortsightedness. I'm sorry to hear that this isn't better on the Hopper. I was praying that it would be and was going to switch because I hoped it would be. So now it really looks like a general DISH software issue that the new gear doesn't fix. And the fact that I get conflicts more clearly notated on the web that on the DVR is :scratch:

#23 OFFLINE   SingleAction

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 07:10 AM

Farmer Bob,

You summed it up in a nutshell, I guess this is what I was trying to say in my original post, but you have a much better understanding of the situation.

Wolfpanther,

I'm sticking to my guns about my Brighthouse DVR being spot on with their timers unless things have changed in the last 6 months!

I'll let you know in several weeks when I return to Tampa.

#24 OFFLINE   tampa8

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 08:41 AM

It is not something for Dish to fix. I actually don't want the guide to keep a program running longer and miss another show, without me knowing it will happen. The networks extend shows at will. How will I keep up with knowing the timer will extend beyond, say 9PM and because I have two more recordings set at that time, only one will start. Much better that I control it. You learn which shows tend to go over, and which shows you miss something if don't get the end. Many NBC shows "come back" after the last commercial with nothing that has to be seen or adds to that program.
For me, either no start time padding or a minute, then two minutes at the end works for most shows. By blaming Dish or whoever, that overlooks the randomness of the networks in this.

#25 OFFLINE   Paul Secic

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:40 AM

What I'm talking about is when you set a timer to record a network show on the DVR, the beginning has the ending of the previous show, and the end of the show your watching is chopped off so you don't see from 1-2.5 mins of the end and previews.

At first I thought it was the VIP622 that I had to replace after over 5 years, but the replacement does the same thing.

If I can, I have to extend every show by 5 mins so I don't miss the end!

It does this on all channels.

I know it's not the broadcasters, but Dish. I spend the winter in Florida, and have cable with a DVR, and watching the same network and shows, they start and end without a problem.

I'm sure I'm not the only one having this "problem"

Can anyone explain the reason for this annoyance?


My 722 does the same thing.

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