Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo

Tired of shows getting chopped!


  • Please log in to reply
53 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

Stewart Vernon

    Excellent Adventurer

  • Moderators
  • 19,531 posts
  • LocationKittrell, NC
Joined: Jan 07, 2005

Posted 29 September 2012 - 04:59 PM

Example: if you don't have access to anything but a Dish system, take a look at zap2it listings, which many use for their accuracy.

http://tvlistings.za...s=1349132400000

Two Broke Girls shows as starting at 9:01 and ending at 9:31. Dish's guide shows it as starting at 9:00 and ending at 9:30. Zap2it shows How I Met Your Mother Starting at 8:00 and ending at 8:31,which Dish's guide shows it as 8:00 to 8:30. Bones, OTOH, is 8:00 to 9:00 on both.

It would be a BIG help if Dish's guide had the actual start and stop times listed. At least then if you had a tuner that had to switch to start a new show, and the new show started at 9:01 and the show it was switching from ended at 9:01, it would get those right, even if it couldn't handle shows that end a minute after the new show starts.


You're 100% on this one... IF Dish is rounding down (as opposed to rounding up) then that would cause some problems too... and you're right, Dish could address this... though I wonder if there is an underlying reason why they don't do anything but 5 minute changes in the Dish EPG... maybe they've tried and it introduced more problems than it fixed?

-- I like to go fast (not really)


...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#42 OFFLINE   cj9788

cj9788

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 1,659 posts
Joined: May 14, 2003

Posted 29 September 2012 - 06:46 PM

Stewart,

It does not matter if I use the default that came with my DVR, the default that I changed on my DVR or manually set a different over/under when creating the timer. The padding is lost and the recording ends when the tuner is needed for the next event.


This is exactly right at least on my 722. Regardless of a manually entered start early/end late or the default option Back to back timers on both my tuners ignore the padding and fire the next timer exactly on the hour or 1/2 hour. The only time the padding works is when there is no other timer set to go off at the end of the show i am watching.

As long as I have settings greater than the "default" ones that come with the receiver... timers do not stop early or get interrupted by other timers.

Now, some say "I do that but then it skips recordings"... well, of course it does! Because there are a limited number of tuners... so if you create overlapping timers it needs unique tuners to launch them... so increasing the start or end padding naturally limits your ability to record shows.
What are you doing differently from me?


..


The problem for me and what I am doing different than you is i have both tuners recording on some nights from 8pm to midnight. Back to back shows some on same channels some on different ones. Since all tuners are in use all the time the DVR has to ignore the padding and fire timers exactly on the hour. The only time padding works is when one of the tuners will be inactive when the other tuner finish recording.

One night of the week i do not have overlaps so i use the west coast feeds and never miss the ends of anything, but with so many shows on that i record coming on at the same times and on different networks my DVR is very busy.

#43 OFFLINE   festivus

festivus

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 190 posts
Joined: Nov 09, 2008

Posted 03 October 2012 - 08:12 AM

This past Thursday was horrible for me and my 622.

3 recordings on 3 different networks, not all at the same time.
Wanted to watch the football game live.
At some points, ending timers at 9:00, beginning timers at 9:00.
But due to the issues you guys are noting, I end all shows 2 minutes late. So for a 2 minute overlap I needed all 3 tuners. 1, 2 and OTA for recordings. Then of course the recording that gets bumped to tuner 1 completes it's entire hour plus on tuner 1. So no football.

I ended up having to skip a recording on the first DVR and move it to my second DVR.

To make this issue worse, I lost my CBS local affiliate 3 weeks or so ago. So all of the CBS recordings have to be manual timers OTA. What a mess. Every day I have to check an online guide and adjust my DVR timers.

Also, it would be nice if networks didn't air all of the most popular shows on Thursdays.
Panasonic TCP50S1 50 inch plasma in great room, Dish VIP622, Pioneer Surround System

Sanyo PLV-Z5 Projector in basement, 106 inch gray screen, 2nd Dish VIP622. LG Surround System

db2 antennna in attic for both VIP622s

Time Warner Roadrunner

We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology. ~Carl Sagan

#44 OFFLINE   FarmerBob

FarmerBob

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 544 posts
Joined: Nov 27, 2002

Posted 03 October 2012 - 12:12 PM

I'm glad that this conversation is finally happening. I have been "bitching" about it for years and since there were "no other complaints", mine was a moot point as per all the reps I have spoken to. I keep telling myself that I'll give it a little longer . . . But it's now taking more time to babysit timers than get the fare online when I want and watching it. Netflix and Vudu are cheaper per month and far more reliable.

#45 OFFLINE   Kevin Brown

Kevin Brown

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 398 posts
Joined: Sep 04, 2005

Posted 08 October 2012 - 06:28 PM

As others have noted, this is not Dish's fault.

It's the networks purposefully trying to screw people who routinely DVR shows.

With that said, I really like the idea of being able to shift everything forward by a min or 2.

Or, a potentially easy fix for Dish would be to allow negative start time adjustments for shows. So instead of the default 1 min early, 3 min late, you could start a show -2 min "early" at the beg, 2 min late at the end, record shows back to back, and not miss any of the "sloppage" time from the networks.

#46 OFFLINE   FarmerBob

FarmerBob

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 544 posts
Joined: Nov 27, 2002

Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:26 PM

Stewart, I'm not sure what you are arguing. There is no debate that if you have both tuners set to record and the timers are set to, say, a 5 minute pad (5 minutes late) they will ignore that and switch exactly at the moment the next show starts in order to not miss the beginning of that show. E.g. Tuner 1 is set to record 7-8:05 on ABC, Tuner 2 is set to record 7-8:05 on NBC, Tuner 1 is set to record the next show at 8-9:05 on Fox, Tuner 2 is set to record the next show at 8-9:05. If the show on ABC and NBC runs 30 seconds or 1 minute past 8, you will miss that.

What I can't figure out: We ran the experiment this week, my neighbor has DirectTV. We set schedules exactly the same, "full" Tuners scheduled back to back. Somehow his DVRs caught the end of the shows, while my Dish ones cut it off. It is as if the DirectTV DVRs somehow have a way to record the overlap on the two channels even when all tuners are being used. This matches what my experiences were with DirectTV until I switched to Dish recently - we just never had this last 30 seconds or minute ending cut-off problem but I don't know how they did it, I just know they somehow have the tech to do it and Dish doesn't.

I did also notice the difference someone noted, DirectTV is showing some shows ending at X:01 and Dish is showing the same show ending at X:0, FWIW

I did the same testing with DTV and Comcast (clients that want to move to DISH, but I won't let them because of this) and with no special tweaking all programs recorded in their entirety as they should have, when they should have and had accurate accountings of their real time length, and I did not have to spend more than a couple of seconds setting up a timer and no babysitting of that timer. Also the timers accurately showed the exact time of the program when recorded and in the pending timer. I too saw 0:01 and whatnot on the ending and beginnings of program listings, timers and recorded shows. That does not happen on DISH.

I have always thought that DISH had the better hardware and TiVo the better software. Guess we're all finding that out now. Just took a hundred of so pictures off my camera of EPG and Timer inaccuracies. Someday I'll have to make a gallery of this. But the more I dig into them the more pissed off I get. It's not pretty.

#47 OFFLINE   inazsully

inazsully

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 781 posts
Joined: Oct 03, 2006

Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:37 PM

As others have noted, this is not Dish's fault.

It's the networks purposefully trying to screw people who routinely DVR shows.

With that said, I really like the idea of being able to shift everything forward by a min or 2.

Or, a potentially easy fix for Dish would be to allow negative start time adjustments for shows. So instead of the default 1 min early, 3 min late, you could start a show -2 min "early" at the beg, 2 min late at the end, record shows back to back, and not miss any of the "sloppage" time from the networks.

I agree that it's the networks purposefully screwing up the times but come on, If dish can come up with auto skip for commercials (and really pissing off these same networks) on the new Hopper they should be able to figure out how to compensate for what the networks are doing here.

#48 OFFLINE   FarmerBob

FarmerBob

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 544 posts
Joined: Nov 27, 2002

Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:39 AM

I agree that it's the networks purposefully screwing up the times but come on, If dish can come up with auto skip for commercials (and really pissing off these same networks) on the new Hopper they should be able to figure out how to compensate for what the networks are doing here.

+1!

But they can't because TiVo would sue them for infringement. OF WHICH if Charlie had bought TiVo a couple of Springs ago we wouldn't be here talking about this, and he'd have a ton of pending TiVo lawsuits in his favor and none against him. But I guess Hughes Aerospace and Blockbuster are more important.

#49 OFFLINE   James Long

James Long

    Ready for Uplink!

  • Super Moderators
  • 39,581 posts
Joined: Apr 17, 2003

Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:46 AM

I agree that it's the networks purposefully screwing up the times but come on, If dish can come up with auto skip for commercials (and really pissing off these same networks) on the new Hopper they should be able to figure out how to compensate for what the networks are doing here.

PTAT and AutoHop does that.

PTAT allowing the recording of up to four local networks (including the overlaps).
AutoHop trimming the program to air just before the start to just after the finish.
Record two programs in a row that overlap and each recording is the full program.

#50 OFFLINE   Mike109

Mike109

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 250 posts
Joined: Jun 28, 2010

Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:51 AM

The 3 minute pad is not a "soft pad" If that pad is selected the only way to lose that pad is to manually stop the recording.

As far as the 60 minutes example goes, you can thank the NFL coverage on CBS for the odd start times on Sundays. CBS will run the entire Sunday prime time schedule after the end of the last "late" game (formerly a 4:05 or 4:15 start time late games now start at 4:30). FOX OTOH does not schedule anything important at 7:00 PM, instead they schedule a post game show that is flexible - that is it runs until the top or bottom of the hour so that the Sunday PT shows start on time, even when a late game runs late (they just cancel the 7:30 cartoon show so that the 8:00 Simpsons almost always starts on time).


To get around this I've been doing a manual timer set to record 2 more hours than needed. It may be a little bit cumbersome to keep track of what is recorded because the recorded program will be called 60 minutes & run for several hours. But I get everything & only use one tuner.

#51 OFFLINE   Kevin Brown

Kevin Brown

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 398 posts
Joined: Sep 04, 2005

Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:24 AM

^^^

I have to remember that. Now, I just try and make sure that nothing butt-ends up against my favorites on a different channel, so I indeed get the +3 min at the end. But my way is very labor intensive.

Don't Dish CSR people peruse these threads? This would seem to be an easy thing to fix.

#52 OFFLINE   fudpucker

fudpucker

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 521 posts
Joined: Jul 23, 2007

Posted 09 October 2012 - 03:21 PM

PTAT and AutoHop does that.

PTAT allowing the recording of up to four local networks (including the overlaps).
AutoHop trimming the program to air just before the start to just after the finish.
Record two programs in a row that overlap and each recording is the full program.


One reason I have not pursued Hopper/Joey is that, with my 3 DVRs (2 612s and a 722) I have 6 tuners, 4 of which I often need on a busy night, and I know that Hopper only had 3 tuners. However - am I understanding that Hopper only takes up one tuner to record all 4 network's prime time programming, leaving me 2 free tuners to pick up the shows on, say, TNT or USA, etc?

OH - also, wrt the feature that records all of the prime time shows for the networks: If I go to save, let's say, NCIS, because I will not be able to watch it within the 8 days that I understand this is stored, and NCIS goes a minute over, will the saved NCIS from PTAT have the last minute cut off?

Edited by fudpucker, 09 October 2012 - 03:34 PM.


#53 OFFLINE   patmurphey

patmurphey

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 521 posts
Joined: Dec 21, 2006

Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:06 AM

One reason I have not pursued Hopper/Joey is that, with my 3 DVRs (2 612s and a 722) I have 6 tuners, 4 of which I often need on a busy night, and I know that Hopper only had 3 tuners. However - am I understanding that Hopper only takes up one tuner to record all 4 network's prime time programming, leaving me 2 free tuners to pick up the shows on, say, TNT or USA, etc?...


Lots of posts in this and other forums - if you want 6 tuners, just get 2 Hoppers and one Joey with the same monthly fees as a Hopper and 2 Joeys. Also, less than you are paying now with more whole home features.

If you have a problem with saving shows that might have the end cut off, you can set regular timers on a Hopper with PTAT turned off -you don't need it on both. You can also set a timer for a PTAT show with extended time and unskip it on the daily schedule and it will use another tuner to give you that extended time.

#54 OFFLINE   djlong

djlong

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 4,189 posts
  • LocationNew Hampshire
Joined: Jul 08, 2002

Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:48 AM

I had a couple of ViPs but I would have to put the same timers on both machines if I wanted to watch stuff in the bedroom.

That was the real clincher in the Hopper/Joey setup for me. I only had to record stuff in ONE place and could watch it anywhere. Over time, I'm discovering I don't need 5 tuners. PTAT has made 3 tuners work for me (so far). I have a 2H/3J setup and I've yet to watch anything on the second Hopper.




spam firewall