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HR34 and 4TB External Drive


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131 replies to this topic

#76 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 11:04 AM

Hey,I've always said you have a very unique issue. I don't recall seeing anyone else go through as many as you have! :)


The actual number of HRs that I have received as replacements is actually higher than 60. I think 60 is around the number that were activated. A lot came in pieces or just wouldn't power up. They went right back.

But other than fan and power supply, I see no reason for anything else to regularly break in these things anyway. I have a feeling the number one issue that DIRECTV has other than hard drives though is power supply's, and then maybe the fans.


I've also had HRs that wouldn't work with my remotes unless I stood a foot away from the HR. I had a couple that got into 771 loops and wouldn't do anything but search for signals. Meanwhile, 10 or 11 other HRs were working fine. I had a 24-500, I think it was my first one, that went completely bonkers. Damn thing would do whatever it wanted to whenever it wanted to. I had a new 21-200 that started smoking the first night it was activated. I could go on and on, but I think you get the idea.

Most of the HRs I activated had big HDD in or on them and I'm still using all the 2TB HDDs (except for one and I'm not positive it was bad) that were in/on them.

But yeah, everyone is different. I just don't see enough people asking about issues that are likely non hard drive but definitely DVR related to think that hard drives aren't the number one issue by far, after install issues. I think installs are probably the number one issue in general people have with DIRECTV systems.


I don't remember exactly when it happened, but there was a time when HDD complaints were rare, then it seemed as if everyone was blaming the HDDs for everything.

My main reasons for all the replacements were bad installs and HDMI incompatibility. But the replacements rarely worked correctly either. Most of my problems were from late '06 to the spring of '08. Since then, I've had few problems.

Factor in my lousy luck, I'm the kind of guy you want to see walk into a craps game with a big wad of money, and that accounts for most of the HRs. The upside is I've learned a lot about these beasts. More than I want to know... :lol:

Rich

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#77 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 11:06 AM

Wasn't aware of these - thanks. Will have to try them next time I upgrade...


I still have to find the place on the WD website that states the Greens aren't meant to be used in RAID boxes. The Reds are.

Rich

#78 ONLINE   harsh

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 11:57 AM

True, over the total lifetime of the two drives, and that is the calculation for RAID 0. However, the whole point of RAID 1 is to exploit the fact that the failure of a drive is likely to happen at any point over the entire expected lifetime of the drive (as stated in the MTBF rating).

But given my point that the DVR seems more likely to fail, having a redundant RAID is of limited usefulness or appeal.

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#79 OFFLINE   unixguru

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 05:10 PM

I still have to find the place on the WD website that states the Greens aren't meant to be used in RAID boxes. The Reds are.


Footnote in bottom right corner... http://www.wdc.com/e...cts.aspx?id=780

Probably didn't say this until the Reds were announced.

Good article here.

#80 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 06:51 PM

Are their AV drives raid supported?

I always thought it was a bad idea to use a non av drive for a DVR because of the error correction etc.

#81 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:30 AM

Footnote in bottom right corner... http://www.wdc.com/e...cts.aspx?id=780

Probably didn't say this until the Reds were announced.


Thanx. That isn't where I saw it, but what I saw said the same thing. That website is really something to navigate thru.

Good article here.


Let me read that.

Rich

#82 OFFLINE   BAHitman

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:13 AM

I just moved from 4x750G RAID5 to 4x3TB RAID5 in my Promise SmartStor DS4600 enclosure (I have 2 of these enclosures)... I moved all the recordings over and went from 2% free to 76% free.

The 750's were some old WD's I had lying around, the 3TB's are the WD RED drives.

My observations: The RED drives are ALOT quieter and cooler than the 750's were... and the fan on the RAID box is either on it's lowest speed or off. these are some of the coolest HDD'S I have seed. No performance differences noticed thus far...

HR34, HR20x3, HR22, HR23, H24, H21

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#83 OFFLINE   Podkayne

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 07:42 PM

So, what then is the external drive storage limit on the HR 34? 3TB, 9TB, whatever you want?

#84 OFFLINE   Davenlr

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 07:47 PM

WD Red drives? Their website only shows Black and Green and a couple other names without colors. What is the "red" drive all about?

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#85 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:00 PM

So, what then is the external drive storage limit on the HR 34? 3TB, 9TB, whatever you want?


I've tested up to 12TB.
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#86 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:01 PM

WD Red drives? Their website only shows Black and Green and a couple other names without colors. What is the "red" drive all about?


They are marketing them as NAS drives.

http://www.amazon.co...ern digital red
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#87 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:39 PM

WD Red drives? Their website only shows Black and Green and a couple other names without colors. What is the "red" drive all about?


http://www.wdc.com/e...cts.aspx?id=810

#88 OFFLINE   unixguru

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:57 PM

I just moved from 4x750G RAID5 to 4x3TB RAID5 in my Promise SmartStor DS4600 enclosure (I have 2 of these enclosures)... I moved all the recordings over and went from 2% free to 76% free.

The 750's were some old WD's I had lying around, the 3TB's are the WD RED drives.

My observations: The RED drives are ALOT quieter and cooler than the 750's were... and the fan on the RAID box is either on it's lowest speed or off. these are some of the coolest HDD'S I have seed. No performance differences noticed thus far...


Cutting through the Intelli* marketing, the GREEN and RED are 5400 rpm. Your old drives were probably 7200. That does a lot to reduce noise and heat (and power consumption!).

The number of DVR streams supported today really have no use for faster rpm.

#89 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:47 AM

WD Red drives? Their website only shows Black and Green and a couple other names without colors. What is the "red" drive all about?


Wonderful website isn't it? I damn near went nutz trying to find the warning about using Green Caviars in RAID boxes. If it wasn't for unixguru I'd still be looking for it.

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#90 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:48 AM

Cutting through the Intelli* marketing, the GREEN and RED are 5400 rpm. Your old drives were probably 7200. That does a lot to reduce noise and heat (and power consumption!).

The number of DVR streams supported today really have no use for faster rpm.


Ever figure out why the Green Caviars aren't recommended for RAID setups?

Rich

#91 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:57 AM

I believe it's because of issues like time required to wake up, or if it hits a bad sector and goes into a longer recovery scan. This can cause the drive to get dropped from the array. I don't think they support Time Limited Error Recovery.

This may not be an issue with all RAID controllers etc, but they pretty much have to make a blanket statement.

#92 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:07 PM

I believe it's because of issues like time required to wake up, or if it hits a bad sector and goes into a longer recovery scan. This can cause the drive to get dropped from the array. I don't think they support Time Limited Error Recovery.

This may not be an issue with all RAID controllers etc, but they pretty much have to make a blanket statement.


Whoosh!!! Went right over my head with that one! But at least I can see some reasoning for the warning, I guess.

Rich

#93 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:13 PM

I believe it's because of issues like time required to wake up, or if it hits a bad sector and goes into a longer recovery scan. This can cause the drive to get dropped from the array. I don't think they support Time Limited Error Recovery.

This may not be an issue with all RAID controllers etc, but they pretty much have to make a blanket statement.


It wouldn't be wake up, RAID never sleeps. If a drive is in a RAID array it never spins down. Bad sector recovery is plausible though.

It probably has more to do with the quality of the parts in the drive itself. Since Green are the bottom of the line WD drives putting them in a RAID array probably shortens their lifespan.
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#94 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:14 PM

Basically, if the drive hits a bad sector, it can spend up to 30 seconds trying to repair it, move data off etc. I don't think it really responds to the controller during this period, so at least potentially the array could think the drive had failed, dropping it.

#95 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:17 PM

Basically, if the drive hits a bad sector, it can spend up to 30 seconds trying to repair it, move data off etc. I don't think it really responds to the controller during this period, so at least potentially the array could think the drive had failed, dropping it.


That depends on the controller and whether or not there is a write caching battery. This leads back to you saying it's probably a blanket statement. I think you're right there. The green drives may be just fine with a higher quality RAID controller with write caching but to be safe they just said no to RAID for the green drives.
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#96 OFFLINE   unixguru

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:36 AM

That depends on the controller and whether or not there is a write caching battery. This leads back to you saying it's probably a blanket statement. I think you're right there. The green drives may be just fine with a higher quality RAID controller with write caching but to be safe they just said no to RAID for the green drives.


Unlikely that the kind of controllers we are talking about, 2-4 drives, would have any kind of battery.

Even if they did, it wouldn't help. Every RAID controller is going to decide a drive is dead when it doesn't respond after some period of time. Once it decides it isn't going to automatically change it's mind. Even if it did keep retrying access after it has marked a drive dead it isn't going to automatically bring it back if it starts working again. The logic is if the drive didn't respond reasonably then there is something wrong with it. You don't want to start using a questionable drive again - and likely have it fail again. The longer you play games like that the higher the probability that other drive(s) in the RAID group will develop a problem which increases the risk of losing all integrity of your data. RAID is about reliability and one errs on the conservative side. Of course a manual intervention can tell the RAID controller to bring the drive back - with cheap no-knob RAID this is done by ejecting the drive and reinserting it.

My guess is that a "RED" drive is basically the same as a "GREEN" drive with some firmware tweaks (i.e. a few of the enterprise-class options).

I'd speculate that most/all the models are mostly the same physical device. Maybe the platters are graded/sorted. Possibly different speeds of the controller chip. Different cache RAM sizes. Different firmware (rpms, options, etc). The only reason to do all this complexity is price (to customer). Basically the physical device is mostly the same cost to manufacture no matter what model.

#97 OFFLINE   franklin_planner

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:34 AM

Can anyone confirm that the Thermaltake BlacX ST0005U will recognize all 3TB of a Western Digital WD AV-GP WD30EURS 3TB drive connected to an HR34?

I have had good luck with that enclosure with the 2TB version on my HR24.

Thanks for any help.

#98 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:50 AM

Can anyone confirm that the Thermaltake BlacX ST0005U will recognize all 3TB of a Western Digital WD AV-GP WD30EURS 3TB drive connected to an HR34?

I have had good luck with that enclosure with the 2TB version on my HR24.

Thanks for any help.


Let us know how it works. Info is sketchy right now on what works with the 34s.

Rich

#99 OFFLINE   ScottBRLa

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:55 AM

I'm not using that specific drive but I'm running a 9TB RAID 5 array using the enclosure below. Works great, no problems.

This is the drive I'm using:


I subscribed to DirecTV yesterday, and the installer will be bringing my new HR34 next Friday. I apologize for an elementary question, but I'm not incredibly tech savvy. If I buy the items you referenced, I can pretty much "plug and play"? And take advantage of 9TB of DVR storage on my HR34? Or, do the hard drives require some setup?

Thanks for any advice you can give.

#100 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 10:42 AM

I'd suggest you take your time. The Genie has, for me, plenty of space. All depends on your viewing habits. I personally don't want a large library, and I never keep sporting events. Just movies and a few series. Mileage varies, but RunnerFL's set up is quite sophisticated.
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