Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

3TB and 4TB Drives. The Danger!


  • Please log in to reply
192 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 21,166 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:01 AM

So, now it's common knowledge that the 34s can use 3TB & 4TB drives. My question is, what happens if the 34 fails and you have close to 3TBs of content stored on it? At the moment, you lose it!

Once again I ask for some support in our seemingly never ending quest to have D* authorize any HR within an account to read the HDDs recorded by any HR within that account.

Seems like a logical step forward, doesn't it? Seemed like it years ago when I started my first thread on this subject, too. Logic doesn't seem to have much of an impact on D*.

Now, things have changed. The 34s are on the scene and others of that ilk will follow. Some of the members are already running 3TB externals. Personally, I wouldn't do it because of the "marriage" of HR to its HDD. Bad enough to lose 2TBs of content. Can't imagine the frustration of losing much more content than that.

What can we do except raise our voices to D* and get this changed? If this thread gets enough support, perhaps D* will finally do the right thing. This is more important (I think) than DLBs or even the HD GUI.

I was offered a 34 without charge a couple weeks ago. The CSR could not believe that I wouldn't take it. When I explained to him what happens when an HR, any HR, goes bad, he understood my reasoning.

What do YOU think? Please give this some thought, it can't be that difficult to do. And it should be done with every HR, not just the 34s, I think.

Rich

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#2 OFFLINE   P Smith

P Smith

    Mr. FixAnything

  • Registered
  • 19,991 posts
  • LocationMediterranean Sea
Joined: Jul 25, 2002

Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:11 AM

I did support a request for the feature from beginning.

It just show how dish is taking advantage of the feature for last few years starting from ViP622. :(

#3 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,954 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:12 AM

I was offered a 34 without charge a couple weeks ago. The CSR could not believe that I wouldn't take it. When I explained to him what happens when an HR, any HR, goes bad, he understood my reasoning.

I think you missed out on a good deal. You have large drives already on your dual tuner DVRs, so I don't really see any difference.
Having 5 tuners isn't going to change the reliability and for me, is a big plus over having them spread across twin HR24s.
Sure I have everything in "one pot" over two, now but the trade-off is I don't have two chances of failure either.
Yes if my 34 fails, I'm hosed.
At the same time, I've had good luck since I got my first HR20 and haven't had a failure with any of mine since.
A.K.A VOS

#4 OFFLINE   Carl Spock

Carl Spock

    Superfly

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 4,567 posts
Joined: Sep 03, 2004

Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:12 AM

This whole matter is exactly why I won't use an external drive, or rely on any DirecTV DVR for archival storage. If I could marry a drive with any DVR on my account, and back up that drive, that would be another matter.

I view the hard drives in my DVRs as carrying the impermanence of flowers in the spring.
hangin' with the bros at 40 Eridani A

#5 OFFLINE   P Smith

P Smith

    Mr. FixAnything

  • Registered
  • 19,991 posts
  • LocationMediterranean Sea
Joined: Jul 25, 2002

Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:20 AM

Rich, ask mods how to add a poll - it's possible for the thread. And I would slightly change the title - adding a keyword "RFI" - a request to implement the feature (account 'marriage') for DTV SW Dept.

#6 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 21,166 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:27 AM

I did support a request for the feature from beginning.

It just show how dish is taking advantage of the feature for last few years starting from ViP622. :(


Every time this has come up, I've been told there weren't enough people using the eSATA function for this change to be authorized by D*. I dealt with it my way and have ensured that, barring a catastrophe, I won't lose any recordings. Now with the 34s and whatever follows, surely more folks will want to put much larger HDDs on them. I think the time has come for a change. I know Dish has this feature, it can't be that hard to do.

How can we force their hand? Don't accept a 34 until this change is authorized for all HRs. I won't accept one. Not that I don't want one, but I'm kinda tired of having 12 HRs just so I can back up everything I value several times.

Rich

#7 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

hdtvfan0001

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 32,044 posts
Joined: Jul 28, 2004

Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:29 AM

I've had 4 polls and 5 threads on the topic of archiving since 2009.

While the ability to archive content so that it doesn't get "lost" during an HD DVR failure has been a long-standing desire by many people, there has been little movement in that direction. It's also one of the very few disappoints I've had with DirecTV service.

The alignment of one hard drive to one device, as opposed to being able to migrate storage at the account level (instead of the hardware level) is the main impediment.
DBSTalk CHAT ROOM MODERATOR
DirecTV Customer Since 1996

#8 OFFLINE   usnret

usnret

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 587 posts
Joined: Jan 16, 2009

Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:33 AM

Hopefully, if they change it we would be able to run the external HD on any DVR that we have on account vice just 34 to 34, etc.
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.

#9 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 21,166 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:40 AM

I think you missed out on a good deal. You have large drives already on your dual tuner DVRs, so I don't really see any difference.


The deal is still there. That's not gonna change, they want me to reup and I'm not gonna do it until something changes drastically.

Having 5 tuners isn't going to change the reliability and for me, is a big plus over having them spread across twin HR24s.


And I've already got 24 tuners, don't really need any more, but I would like to "lighten the load".

Sure I have everything in "one pot" over two, now but the trade-off is I don't have two chances of failure either.
Yes if my 34 fails, I'm hosed.
At the same time, I've had good luck since I got my first HR20 and haven't had a failure with any of mine since.


I don't really think we should factor your experiences into this. I think you know more about this stuff than anyone on the forum does and you can deal with whatever happens in a way that most of us can't. In other words, if anyone's an "anomaly", you are, and that's a good thing for us. There's a vast difference between knowing what you know and what the average user knows.

Rich

#10 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 21,166 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:45 AM

I've had 4 polls and 5 threads on the topic of archiving since 2009.

While the ability to archive content so that it doesn't get "lost" during an HD DVR failure has been a long-standing desire by many people, there has been little movement in that direction. It's also one of the very few disappoints I've had with DirecTV service.

The alignment of one hard drive to one device, as opposed to being able to migrate storage at the account level (instead of the hardware level) is the main impediment.


I don't want to archive anything, I just want to be able to use the large HDDs on another HR within my account if an HR fails. My 20-700s are failing now and I've got four left with a 2TB on/in all of them. I already know I'm gonna lose all that content sooner or later.

Yup, we need a divorce lawyer to dissolve the "marriage" between the HR and its attendant hard drives.

Rich

#11 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,954 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:49 AM

In other words, if anyone's an "anomaly", you are

Rich

Nobody has EVER accused me of being "normal". :lol:

I'm not against your idea.

I'm just trying to look at this:

What's the highest failure component?
Isn't this the drive?

Cloning a drive or going to RAID would seem to be what would help this.

With larger drive supported, RAID would seem to be the option to use.
A.K.A VOS

#12 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 21,166 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:00 AM

Nobody has EVER accused me of being "normal". :lol:


Don't think anyone on this forum would ever consider you normal. I certainly don't.... :lol:

I'm not against your idea.

I'm just trying to look at this:

What's the highest failure component?
Isn't this the drive?


Not in my case. I've only lost a couple HDDs and I think blaming the HDDs is way overblown. I've had far more trouble with the HRs than the HDDs.

Cloning a drive or going to RAID would seem to be what would help this.

With larger drive supported, RAID would seem to be the option to use.


True, but that gets expensive. Two 3TB drives in one RAID enclosure would cost a lot. And as we both know money's kinda tight these days. I wouldn't spring for that. I did have two RAID setups running years ago and they both failed. One lasted 3 or 4 months and the other one ran for about a year and failed. Both RAID boxes cost me ~ $500.

Rich

#13 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

veryoldschool

    Lifetime Achiever

  • Moderators
  • 41,954 posts
Joined: Dec 09, 2006

Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:11 AM

Don't think anyone on this forum would ever consider you normal. I certainly don't.... :lol:

Rich

And someone with 12 DVRs just to not miss anything, is perfectly "normal"? [I kid]

I don't know what is in the works. There was "some buzz" about this subject but nothing that suggested what or when.

The move to supporting drives larger than 2TB is something wanted for a long time.
A.K.A VOS

#14 OFFLINE   P Smith

P Smith

    Mr. FixAnything

  • Registered
  • 19,991 posts
  • LocationMediterranean Sea
Joined: Jul 25, 2002

Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:13 AM

That's what I'm afraid of, limiting the ability to just the 34s and whatever comes next. I'm not sure I'd support doing this and including the 20s, which are old and, at least in my case, failing and I think I'd also exclude the 21 series, thereby limiting it to the 24s and whatever follows the 34s. That should make it even easier for D* to do. Or would it? I don't know. Just a thought.

Rich


No, that would be bad limitation.Please do not push the idea.

Make it simple: moving an EHD in one account should include all compatible DVRs.

#15 OFFLINE   Drucifer

Drucifer

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 8,133 posts
  • LocationNY Hudson Valley
Joined: Feb 12, 2009

Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:35 AM

So, now it's common knowledge that the 34s can use 3TB & 4TB drives. My question is, what happens if the 34 fails and you have close to 3TBs of content stored on it? At the moment, you lose it! . . . .

We need a DirecTV Cloud.
DREW
Do it Right, Do it Once
LR: HR34-7, Den: HR24-1, MB: HR24-5, Bsm: HR24-2, Kit: H25-5
PrimeStar '95, DirecTV  '00

#16 OFFLINE   usnret

usnret

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 587 posts
Joined: Jan 16, 2009

Posted 30 September 2012 - 01:38 PM

Genie would then "feed" the cloud and mess that up too ;)
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.

#17 OFFLINE   Carl Spock

Carl Spock

    Superfly

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 4,567 posts
Joined: Sep 03, 2004

Posted 30 September 2012 - 02:16 PM

We need a DirecTV Cloud.

Let's do some "back of the envelope" calculations here.

Of the 20 million subscribers, let's say half are HD and have a DVR, or 10 million. Let's assume half of those just have one DVR and no external storage and would need no more than 500 GB back-up, which would mean they would need a total of 2.5 million TB of back-up. That takes care of half the customers for HD back-up on the DirecTV Cloud.

Of the other half, or 5 million customers, let's guess that half of those have two DVRs and again no external HD hooked up to their DVRs. They'd need a TB each to cover their two DVRs, or 5 million TB of back-up total.

We still have 2.5 million customers left. Let's say 1.5 million of those have some kind of external HD on their DVR(s) but are otherwise nomal users. We'll need 2 TB on average in the cloud to back them up. Add another 3 million TB to the total.

Finally, we are left with 1 million power users. They have either a lot of DVRs, a large amount of external HDs, or both. Let's give them 4 TB of back-up each, or a total of 4 million TB more.

That means DirecTV just needs to provide 14.5 million TB of back-up on the cloud to cover everyone. :eek2:

No problem.
hangin' with the bros at 40 Eridani A

#18 OFFLINE   Drucifer

Drucifer

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 8,133 posts
  • LocationNY Hudson Valley
Joined: Feb 12, 2009

Posted 30 September 2012 - 02:21 PM

Let's do some "back of the envelope" calculations here.

Of the 20 million subscribers, let's say half are HD and have a DVR, or 10 million. Let's assume half of those just have one DVR and no external storage and would need no more than 500 GB back-up, which would mean they would need a total of 2.5 million TB of back-up. That takes care of half the customers for HD back-up on the DirecTV Cloud.

Of the other half, or 5 million customers, let's guess that half of those have two DVRs and again no external HD hooked up to their DVRs. They'd need a TB each to cover their two DVRs, or 5 million TB of back-up total.

We still have 2.5 million customers left. Let's say 1.5 million of those have some kind of external HD on their DVR(s) but are otherwise nomal users. We'll need 2 TB on average in the cloud to back them up. Add another 3 million TB to the total.

Finally, we are left with 1 million power users. They have either a lot of DVRs, a large amount of external HDs, or both. Let's give them 4 TB of back-up each, or a total of 4 million TB more.

That means DirecTV just needs to provide 14.5 million TB of back-up on the cloud to cover everyone. :eek2:

No problem.

I don't think they need to store the same show over and over again for all their customer. I'm pretty sure just one will do.
DREW
Do it Right, Do it Once
LR: HR34-7, Den: HR24-1, MB: HR24-5, Bsm: HR24-2, Kit: H25-5
PrimeStar '95, DirecTV  '00

#19 OFFLINE   Carl Spock

Carl Spock

    Superfly

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 4,567 posts
Joined: Sep 03, 2004

Posted 30 September 2012 - 02:30 PM

Drucifer, I think you missed the point.
hangin' with the bros at 40 Eridani A

#20 OFFLINE   Shades228

Shades228

    Hall Of Fame

  • Banned User
  • 5,914 posts
Joined: Mar 18, 2008

Posted 30 September 2012 - 02:33 PM

Every time this has come up, I've been told there weren't enough people using the eSATA function for this change to be authorized by D*. I dealt with it my way and have ensured that, barring a catastrophe, I won't lose any recordings. Now with the 34s and whatever follows, surely more folks will want to put much larger HDDs on them. I think the time has come for a change. I know Dish has this feature, it can't be that hard to do.

How can we force their hand? Don't accept a 34 until this change is authorized for all HRs. I won't accept one. Not that I don't want one, but I'm kinda tired of having 12 HRs just so I can back up everything I value several times.

Rich


I'm guessing the amount of money you have spent on receiver fees, hard drives, and other parts of your setup you could have easily bought the box sets or blu rays of the movies you really want to keep.

Plus your logic is self defeating. If you continue to pay more money to get the same functionality then how does it hurt a company?

I would never use this feature but I could see how some might.
All comments are my own. Unless specifically stated, my views do NOT represent the views of DIRECTV




Protected By... spam firewall...And...