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3TB and 4TB Drives. The Danger!


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192 replies to this topic

#26 ONLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 03:12 PM

while you guys joyful dragging the thread off-topic, it would be reasonable to ask the sat providers (dtv, dish, etc) for a few kilobytes of account's storage to series, times, etc what many is redo manually after each quirk with a box


Now that cloud storage I'd be happy with.

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#27 OFFLINE   Davenlr

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 03:19 PM

Now that cloud storage I'd be happy with.


I really see no reason why, if we can sendreport to DirecTv, we couldnt also SendSettings.... Just stupid they havent implemented such a simple addition that even AOL had 10 years ago.

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#28 OFFLINE   gimp

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 06:07 PM

I agree completely. As a long time D* DVR user with large external drives (currently 2TB) I can't count the number of times I've lost nearly full drive contents due to either bad DVR replacements or upgrades (the most recent being the HR34 upgrade). I don't know what's worse, loss of content or effort to recreate Series Recording list. Now that I've got 99 series recordings, the next DVR replacement will most certainly be a chore. Last upgrade I got a little smarter though and took pictures of the old list before kissing goodbye!

So, now it's common knowledge that the 34s can use 3TB & 4TB drives. My question is, what happens if the 34 fails and you have close to 3TBs of content stored on it? At the moment, you lose it!

Once again I ask for some support in our seemingly never ending quest to have D* authorize any HR within an account to read the HDDs recorded by any HR within that account.

Seems like a logical step forward, doesn't it? Seemed like it years ago when I started my first thread on this subject, too. Logic doesn't seem to have much of an impact on D*.

Now, things have changed. The 34s are on the scene and others of that ilk will follow. Some of the members are already running 3TB externals. Personally, I wouldn't do it because of the "marriage" of HR to its HDD. Bad enough to lose 2TBs of content. Can't imagine the frustration of losing much more content than that.

What can we do except raise our voices to D* and get this changed? If this thread gets enough support, perhaps D* will finally do the right thing. This is more important (I think) than DLBs or even the HD GUI.

I was offered a 34 without charge a couple weeks ago. The CSR could not believe that I wouldn't take it. When I explained to him what happens when an HR, any HR, goes bad, he understood my reasoning.

What do YOU think? Please give this some thought, it can't be that difficult to do. And it should be done with every HR, not just the 34s, I think.

Rich



#29 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 06:12 PM

I hate to bring up the "t-word" but TiVo allowed you to move a recording from one DVR to another. I used that several times when one DVR's drive starting getting funky. It allowed me to save a few key recordings, and then replace the drive.

I fully support the idea of locking a DVR's recordings to the account, not the individual receiver. And it doesn't matter how small a percentage of users make use of the feature. I can't imagine it is any more complicated than changing the source for the unique encryption key from the receiver's ID number to the account number. If it takes a programmer more than half a day to make the code change they need better programmers.

By the way, if we could replace DVRs and keep our recordings, people might be more likely to upgrade to newer equipment, getting DirecTV more customers under commitment.

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#30 OFFLINE   docderwood

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 06:13 PM

FWIW.....

They can create Nomad, linked to our account.

It seems logical to me that they could create a way to allow us to not lose everything when our DVR dies.

I understand the RAID external concept, but this is added expense and still doesn't fully protect you from the hassle of a DVR failure.

#31 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:45 PM

Every time this has come up, I've been told there weren't enough people using the eSATA function for this change to be authorized by D*. I dealt with it my way and have ensured that, barring a catastrophe, I won't lose any recordings. Now with the 34s and whatever follows, surely more folks will want to put much larger HDDs on them. I think the time has come for a change. I know Dish has this feature, it can't be that hard to do.

How can we force their hand? Don't accept a 34 until this change is authorized for all HRs. I won't accept one. Not that I don't want one, but I'm kinda tired of having 12 HRs just so I can back up everything I value several times.

Rich


Do you record mostly series, or lots of movies as well, or more of a mix?

#32 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:52 PM

That's what I'm afraid of, limiting the ability to just the 34s and whatever comes next. I'm not sure I'd support doing this and including the 20s, which are old and, at least in my case, failing and I think I'd also exclude the 21 series, thereby limiting it to the 24s and whatever follows the 34s. That should make it even easier for D* to do. Or would it? I don't know. Just a thought.

Rich


I would actually think that if there where to be any line drawn in the sand, it would be the hr34 and newer, simply because they appear to be the only receivers so far that can deal with larger hard drives. If that not a concern, then I would like to dream that it would work with any unit.

#33 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:54 PM

No, we really don't need to go to the "cloud" fad.


I agree.. But then again, we kind of had cloud storage already for some stations. On demand, for example with HBO, has everything. If all the channels went the same route as HBO then we would have cloud storage in a way that I think most people would be ok with. Its just that on demand now, except for HBO, is extremely lacking... :(

#34 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 12:31 AM

I agree.. But then again, we kind of had cloud storage already for some stations. On demand, for example with HBO, has everything. If all the channels went the same route as HBO then we would have cloud storage in a way that I think most people would be ok with. Its just that on demand now, except for HBO, is extremely lacking... :(


Cinemax also has all their series and a ton of movies as well, like MaxGo.
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#35 OFFLINE   hdtvfan0001

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 02:34 AM

FWIW.....

They can create Nomad, linked to our account.

It seems logical to me that they could create a way to allow us to not lose everything when our DVR dies.

I understand the RAID external concept, but this is added expense and still doesn't fully protect you from the hassle of a DVR failure.

Yup...that is indeed true.

In fact nomad would be one of several ways to support archiving. It comes down to locking down copy protection within the framework of a storage device - the logical path would be to assign storage based upon an account number, not a specific HD DVR RID as it's done today. There are no technical barriers to doing it.
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#36 OFFLINE   rbpeirce

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 06:22 AM

RAID's no good if you can't transfer it to another DVR. I don't use any external HD for the same reason.

If the HD was transferrable I would use it and I think many other people would as well. My greatest fear is having a lot, or almost any, stuff to watch and having the unit fail with no chance of recovery.

What would be cool to me is a DVR with a transferrable, external HD and no internal HD. Then RAID (or backup) would become interesting.

#37 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 10:50 AM

HDD failures are probably by far the most common failures. If you are using an external HDD, then if you suspect that the drive is beginning to fail, you just copy it to a new drive, and voila, back in business. To me, that is currently one of the best reasons to be using an external HDD, along with all the extra space you have.

#38 ONLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 11:35 AM

True, but having had a fan failure in an HR34, I still want more support before taking that plunge.

#39 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 11:39 AM

And someone with 12 DVRs just to not miss anything, is perfectly "normal"? [I kid]

I don't know what is in the works. There was "some buzz" about this subject but nothing that suggested what or when.

The move to supporting drives larger than 2TB is something wanted for a long time.


Supporting larger drives is fine with me, all I want is the ability to play those drives on any HR within my account. Seems so simple, why the delay? It's been well over 5 years since we started asking for this.

Rich

#40 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 11:41 AM

No, that would be bad limitation.Please do not push the idea.

Make it simple: moving an EHD in one account should include all compatible DVRs.


Yeah, I guess you're right. Just throwing some ideas out there.

Rich

#41 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 11:55 AM

Having 5 tuners isn't going to change the reliability and for me, is a big plus over having them spread across twin HR24s.

Don't you suppose that thrashing the hard drive with "up to" five streams isn't considerably more stressful (mechanically) than two? I'm thinking in terms of exponential increases.
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#42 ONLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 12:01 PM

Don't you suppose that thrashing the hard drive with "up to" five streams isn't considerably more stressful (mechanically) than two? I'm thinking in terms of exponential increases.

Technically that would be 6 in and 3 out, but I kind of doubt the increase is going to cause any significant change. Just the act of writing/reading may be the failure mode.
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#43 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 12:07 PM

They can create Nomad, linked to our account.

Would you sit still for a DVR that was as reliable as a nomad setup?

There is very clear precedent for a system that works so I suspect that it is a business decision that they haven't made the feature widely available already. One wonders if Echostar has a patent on the feature.
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#44 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 12:17 PM

Technically that would be 6 in and 3 out, but I kind of doubt the increase is going to cause any significant change. Just the act of writing/reading may be the failure mode.

I hadn't contemplated with idea of doing trick play with clients while all the recordings were in progress. With a few streams, it shouldn't be doing a lot of seeking, but with "up to" nine, I would imagine some of the noisier drives are protesting audibly.

Buffering works well for recording linear content but it doesn't work all that well for non-linear playback.
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#45 OFFLINE   TBoneit

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 12:21 PM

Supporting larger drives is fine with me, all I want is the ability to play those drives on any HR within my account. Seems so simple, why the delay? It's been well over 5 years since we started asking for this.

Rich


OK, I'll tell you my speculation as to why it won't happen or What DirecTV won't tell you :lol:

1. Dishes implementation is simpler as they only store video on the external drive.
2. All the external drives in use now are encrypted and tied to the individual DVR.
3. That tying to a specific DVR means that to go to a whole house key so that any External will work on any DVR in the house would mean wiping any External drive now in use. Can you imagine the backlash if everybody had their external drives wiped or the content rendered useless?

I can think of one scenario that would work and the programming might be tricky. Have the DVR detect that the video is tied to a specific unit for playback on old titles and any new titles stored on the drive use a whole house key. Plus that would lead to complaints that some of my videos don't play and others do.

Or slow down the HR series converting the encryption, if possible, to a whole house key.

That's off the top of my head.

Good Luck with your endeavor Rich
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Edited by TBoneit, 01 October 2012 - 12:39 PM.

Remember when your kids were the TV set's remote control?

#46 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 12:38 PM

... wonders if Echostar has a patent on the feature.


No they don't.

#47 OFFLINE   rbpeirce

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 01:16 PM

HDD failures are probably by far the most common failures. If you are using an external HDD, then if you suspect that the drive is beginning to fail, you just copy it to a new drive, and voila, back in business. To me, that is currently one of the best reasons to be using an external HDD, along with all the extra space you have.


How do you copy it? Can it be mounted as a drive on your computer and if so will your computer recognize it? I don't know how these things are formatted but I know they are encrypted in some way.

This still leaves the problem of a DVR failure. Unless the HD can be made recognizable by another DVR anything on the HD is gone.

My favorite solution would still be a RAID system and receivers you can plug into. Actually, if you cold plug into any receiver on your account you could have a form of whole home, sort of like carrying a flash drive from one computer to another.

#48 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 01:24 PM

How do you copy it? Can it be mounted as a drive on your computer and if so will your computer recognize it? I don't know how these things are formatted but I know they are encrypted in some way.


http://www.dbstalk.c...174&postcount=1

Pretty simple actually.
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#49 OFFLINE   rbpeirce

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 01:45 PM

Easy for you to say. It looks like you need to be running Linux. I'm not. I am running OS X. Any instruction pages for that?

#50 OFFLINE   Getteau

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 01:46 PM

while you guys joyful dragging the thread off-topic, it would be reasonable to ask the sat providers (dtv, dish, etc) for a few kilobytes of account's storage to series, times, etc what many is redo manually after each quirk with a box


+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

As someone who just lost an HR24-500 because of a bad hard drive, this is the biggest PITA of the process. While I didn't like losing my recordings, especially for old series that don't come on any longer, having to go back in and rebuild my series list and favorite lists was a major chore.

On the plus side, at least the caller ID in my HR24-100 works better than the HR24-500

Thanks,
Rich

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