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3TB and 4TB Drives. The Danger!


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192 replies to this topic

#51 OFFLINE   MrLatte

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 02:20 PM

Easy for you to say. It looks like you need to be running Linux. I'm not. I am running OS X. Any instruction pages for that?


Yes, you download the Mac OS X version and make a bootable GParted Live CD version 0.3.7-7. Don't use the current release - if you look in that thread you'll see people have problems using anything newer than about 0.4.x.x - can't remember exactly how new it still works.

I haven't tried this myself but I read the thread getting ready.

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#52 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 02:50 PM

Easy for you to say. It looks like you need to be running Linux. I'm not. I am running OS X. Any instruction pages for that?


You don't need to be running Linux. You just need the gparted live disk and a machine you can put the drives into.
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#53 OFFLINE   rbpeirce

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 03:16 PM

As I read the information about GParted I wonder if the same thing could be accomplished on an OS X machine using Disk Utility and various Unix tools. Does anybody know?

What does xfrestore do and might there be a similar Unix program? I recall there was a dump, and I believe, restore in older Unix releases but neither appear to exist in the 10.8.2 release of OS X. Could cpio or dd be used?

This may be relatively straight-forward, but I know nothing about Linux and how it relates to Unix and OS X.

#54 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 03:45 PM

As I read the information about GParted I wonder if the same thing could be accomplished on an OS X machine using Disk Utility and various Unix tools. Does anybody know?

What does xfrestore do and might there be a similar Unix program? I recall there was a dump, and I believe, restore in older Unix releases but neither appear to exist in the 10.8.2 release of OS X. Could cpio or dd be used?

This may be relatively straight-forward, but I know nothing about Linux and how it relates to Unix and OS X.


YOU should really have a respect to the thread's starter and do not continue drag offtopic.
You got right thread's URL to discuss the matter, so please continue there.
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#55 OFFLINE   makaiguy

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 04:26 PM

OK, I'll tell you my speculation as to why it won't happen or What DirecTV won't tell you :lol:
...
3. That tying to a specific DVR means that to go to a whole house key so that any External will work on any DVR in the house would mean wiping any External drive now in use. Can you imagine the backlash if everybody had their external drives wiped or the content rendered useless?


Nah, in the same programming update that starts it encoding with an account code instead of a unit code, you have the playback check to see if it was recorded with EITHER code. Couldn't take but one or two lines of code. What is lacking is the willingness to do it.
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#56 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 07:15 AM

As I read the information about GParted I wonder if the same thing could be accomplished on an OS X machine using Disk Utility and various Unix tools. Does anybody know?

What does xfrestore do and might there be a similar Unix program? I recall there was a dump, and I believe, restore in older Unix releases but neither appear to exist in the 10.8.2 release of OS X. Could cpio or dd be used?

This may be relatively straight-forward, but I know nothing about Linux and how it relates to Unix and OS X.


Nothing can be done using OSX because OSX does not have any XFS tools. You need to use the xfsdump/xfsrestore method.

FYI, OSX is BSD which is a variant of Linux.
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#57 OFFLINE   BAHitman

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 07:46 AM

This is a feature I would like to see...

My experience since my first HR...

1 upgraded 2TB drive died... (replaced and lost all content)

1 CE Download erased all content on 1 DVR (2TB FULL drive)

1 HR20-700 died (Internal drive)(DVR lost tuner 2) replaced with HR21 :(

1 750GB drive died in my HR34 (I put 4 OLD 750's in my RAID5 enclosure)... replaced the drive and kept on going as if nothing was wrong...

so, If I could get another RAID enclosure, i might just load it up with 4 3TB or 4TB drives. and IF I could move the existing to another DVR that would be great... but there is another issue to code for...

move a drive from HR34 to HR2x what would happen with SL 51+? not to mention the Genie "space"

HR34, HR20x3, HR22, HR23, H24, H21

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#58 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:00 AM

RAID is definitely the way to go to combat drive loss, and that's why I went RAID 5.

The best way to reduce wear and tear on a drive is to have it turned off. That's why being able to copy content to a drive for archiving is cool.

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. -- JFK


#59 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:00 AM

move a drive from HR34 to HR2x what would happen with SL 51+? not to mention the Genie "space"


The Genie space would stay with the hard drive and be used for PPV stuff like the HR2X's do now with DirecTV's partition. I don't think they'd be able to allow moving a drive from an HR34 to say an HR24 due to compatibility issues. One being the amount of SL's and the other being the 2TB limitation on the HR2X's that the HR34's no longer have.
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#60 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:01 AM

The best way to reduce wear and tear on a drive is to have it turned off. That's why being able to copy content to a drive for archiving is cool.


Huh? What does that have to do with what you quoted me saying??
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#61 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:04 AM

1. Dishes implementation is simpler as they only store video on the external drive.

I'm not sure how DIRECTV's version would be different. You would need the drive to be external to move it to a different unit.

2. All the external drives in use now are encrypted and tied to the individual DVR.

That's how DISH's EHD solution started.

3. That tying to a specific DVR means that to go to a whole house key so that any External will work on any DVR in the house would mean wiping any External drive now in use.

If they can play the content with WHDS, they've already demonstrated the ability to use a foreign key.

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#62 OFFLINE   harsh

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:13 AM

Huh? What does that have to do with what you quoted me saying??

You asserted (in the quoted text) that RAID is the best way to combat loss. I countered that not having the drive(s) running 24/7 is a better method to combat loss. Archiving to a live drive is not really archiving.

You need to be specific about what kind of RAID you're talking about because half the RAID modes actually put you in a weakest link situation.

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. -- JFK


#63 OFFLINE   BAHitman

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:13 AM

WHDS, they've already demonstrated the ability to use a foreign key.


Not necessarily... it could be a key exchange, or it could be that the source decrypts the video, then puts it in an encrypted transport stream to the target...

HR34, HR20x3, HR22, HR23, H24, H21

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#64 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:16 AM

You asserted (in the quoted text) that RAID is the best way to combat loss.


And it is...

I countered that not having the drive(s) running 24/7 is a better method to combat loss.


That's like saying not driving a car is the best way to not put miles on it. What a silly statement for you to make, not surprised really. You KNOW DVR's run 24/7, how would you expect them to not have a drive running in a DVR?

Archiving to a live drive is not really archiving.


I said nothing about archiving a live drive.

You need to be specific about what kind of RAID you're talking about because half the RAID modes actually put you in a weakest link situation.


If you had read what you quoted from me you would see that I clearly stated what RAID mode I was using.
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#65 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:17 AM

it could be that the source decrypts the video, then puts it in an encrypted transport stream to the target...


This. :)
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#66 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:08 AM

I'm guessing the amount of money you have spent on receiver fees, hard drives, and other parts of your setup you could have easily bought the box sets or blu rays of the movies you really want to keep.


That's what I do if I want to archive something. Haven't done it for quite a while. Yeah, I spent a good bit of money buying my own owned HRs (6), but at the time I was sick of getting replacements that didn't work. I solved that problem by buying my own replacements. The money I spent on the 2TB HDDs wasn't wasted, they migrate from failed HR to good HR without any problems and all I really use them for is backing up recordings.

Plus your logic is self defeating. If you continue to pay more money to get the same functionality then how does it hurt a company?


I'm not trying to "hurt" D*. Where did you get that idea from?

I would never use this feature but I could see how some might.


Use what feature, I don't understand that question?

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#67 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:09 AM

I don't know about the cloud aspect, I just think that would be problematic. All we really need is the ability to plug an external drive into any DVR on the same account, and everything starts where it left off, all recordings accessible. And with no fee.

Seems much less complex.


Seems so simple, doesn't it?

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#68 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:22 AM

Do you record mostly series, or lots of movies as well, or more of a mix?


Our system allows us to record a series in its entirety. For programs such as 24, which had a very complex story line and multiple characters, the only way we/I could keep up with it was to watch the whole year's series one after the other in a wonderful week. Shows that don't have complex story lines, such as L&O: SVU we watch and delete immediately.

I've got two seasons of Hawaii Five O and Bluebloods stored up. I don't like either show and my wife is never gonna watch all of them, but she likes them and I have plenty of room for them. Also have to factor my son's shows into the whole thing and my granddaughter's shows.

I do have a lot of movies stored up.

The real kicker here is: I, personally, do not watch much D* content except for football games (Giants and Jets) and, of course, the Yankees. I prefer NetFlix to D*.

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#69 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:24 AM

I would actually think that if there where to be any line drawn in the sand, it would be the hr34 and newer, simply because they appear to be the only receivers so far that can deal with larger hard drives. If that not a concern, then I would like to dream that it would work with any unit.


Be nice and logical, wouldn't it?

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#70 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:29 AM

I agree.. But then again, we kind of had cloud storage already for some stations. On demand, for example with HBO, has everything. If all the channels went the same route as HBO then we would have cloud storage in a way that I think most people would be ok with. Its just that on demand now, except for HBO, is extremely lacking... :(


I should have mentioned that I have the Premier movie package only because of the scripted shows. I really enjoy them and record them in their entirety. I don't think you can get the HBO shows on VOD if you don't subscribe to HBO. Don't know how it works with other channels.

I've had a lot of instances of audio not being properly aligned with the video while watching VOD shows lately.

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#71 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:35 AM

HDD failures are probably by far the most common failures. If you are using an external HDD, then if you suspect that the drive is beginning to fail, you just copy it to a new drive, and voila, back in business. To me, that is currently one of the best reasons to be using an external HDD, along with all the extra space you have.


We don't disagree often, but I gotta disagree with you here. I have had very few HDD failures since '06. I have had one internal drive fail (a Seagate Cuda 1.5) and a couple external HDDs. I've had many, many HRs fail for reasons other than the HDDs.

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#72 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:41 AM

OK, I'll tell you my speculation as to why it won't happen or What DirecTV won't tell you :lol:

1. Dishes implementation is simpler as they only store video on the external drive.
2. All the external drives in use now are encrypted and tied to the individual DVR.
3. That tying to a specific DVR means that to go to a whole house key so that any External will work on any DVR in the house would mean wiping any External drive now in use. Can you imagine the backlash if everybody had their external drives wiped or the content rendered useless?

I can think of one scenario that would work and the programming might be tricky. Have the DVR detect that the video is tied to a specific unit for playback on old titles and any new titles stored on the drive use a whole house key. Plus that would lead to complaints that some of my videos don't play and others do.

Or slow down the HR series converting the encryption, if possible, to a whole house key.

That's off the top of my head.

Good Luck with your endeavor Rich
Roger


Huh. Sounds more complicated than I thought.

Rich

#73 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:55 AM

Nah, in the same programming update that starts it encoding with an account code instead of a unit code, you have the playback check to see if it was recorded with EITHER code. Couldn't take but one or two lines of code. What is lacking is the willingness to do it.


That makes me feel better.

Rich

#74 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:56 AM

Nothing can be done using OSX because OSX does not have any XFS tools. You need to use the xfsdump/xfsrestore method.

FYI, OSX is BSD which is a variant of Linux.


Hear that "whooshing" noise? That's the sound of your post going right over my head.... :lol:

Rich

#75 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:15 AM

Hear that "whooshing" noise? That's the sound of your post going right over my head.... :lol:

Rich


You're probably not alone. ;)
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