Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo
- - - - -

3TB and 4TB Drives. The Danger!


  • Please log in to reply
192 replies to this topic

#61 ONLINE   harsh

harsh

    Beware the Attack Basset

  • Registered
  • 19,378 posts
  • LocationSalem, OR
Joined: Jun 14, 2003

Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:04 AM

1. Dishes implementation is simpler as they only store video on the external drive.

I'm not sure how DIRECTV's version would be different. You would need the drive to be external to move it to a different unit.

2. All the external drives in use now are encrypted and tied to the individual DVR.

That's how DISH's EHD solution started.

3. That tying to a specific DVR means that to go to a whole house key so that any External will work on any DVR in the house would mean wiping any External drive now in use.

If they can play the content with WHDS, they've already demonstrated the ability to use a foreign key.

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. -- JFK


...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#62 ONLINE   harsh

harsh

    Beware the Attack Basset

  • Registered
  • 19,378 posts
  • LocationSalem, OR
Joined: Jun 14, 2003

Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:13 AM

Huh? What does that have to do with what you quoted me saying??

You asserted (in the quoted text) that RAID is the best way to combat loss. I countered that not having the drive(s) running 24/7 is a better method to combat loss. Archiving to a live drive is not really archiving.

You need to be specific about what kind of RAID you're talking about because half the RAID modes actually put you in a weakest link situation.

Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. -- JFK


#63 OFFLINE   BAHitman

BAHitman

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 431 posts
  • LocationAustin Texas
Joined: Oct 23, 2007

Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:13 AM

WHDS, they've already demonstrated the ability to use a foreign key.


Not necessarily... it could be a key exchange, or it could be that the source decrypts the video, then puts it in an encrypted transport stream to the target...

HR34, HR20x3, HR22, HR23, H24, H21

-BAHitman


#64 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

RunnerFL

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 16,059 posts
Joined: Jan 04, 2006

Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:16 AM

You asserted (in the quoted text) that RAID is the best way to combat loss.


And it is...

I countered that not having the drive(s) running 24/7 is a better method to combat loss.


That's like saying not driving a car is the best way to not put miles on it. What a silly statement for you to make, not surprised really. You KNOW DVR's run 24/7, how would you expect them to not have a drive running in a DVR?

Archiving to a live drive is not really archiving.


I said nothing about archiving a live drive.

You need to be specific about what kind of RAID you're talking about because half the RAID modes actually put you in a weakest link situation.


If you had read what you quoted from me you would see that I clearly stated what RAID mode I was using.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

#65 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

RunnerFL

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 16,059 posts
Joined: Jan 04, 2006

Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:17 AM

it could be that the source decrypts the video, then puts it in an encrypted transport stream to the target...


This. :)
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

#66 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 21,348 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:08 AM

I'm guessing the amount of money you have spent on receiver fees, hard drives, and other parts of your setup you could have easily bought the box sets or blu rays of the movies you really want to keep.


That's what I do if I want to archive something. Haven't done it for quite a while. Yeah, I spent a good bit of money buying my own owned HRs (6), but at the time I was sick of getting replacements that didn't work. I solved that problem by buying my own replacements. The money I spent on the 2TB HDDs wasn't wasted, they migrate from failed HR to good HR without any problems and all I really use them for is backing up recordings.

Plus your logic is self defeating. If you continue to pay more money to get the same functionality then how does it hurt a company?


I'm not trying to "hurt" D*. Where did you get that idea from?

I would never use this feature but I could see how some might.


Use what feature, I don't understand that question?

Rich

#67 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 21,348 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:09 AM

I don't know about the cloud aspect, I just think that would be problematic. All we really need is the ability to plug an external drive into any DVR on the same account, and everything starts where it left off, all recordings accessible. And with no fee.

Seems much less complex.


Seems so simple, doesn't it?

Rich

#68 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 21,348 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:22 AM

Do you record mostly series, or lots of movies as well, or more of a mix?


Our system allows us to record a series in its entirety. For programs such as 24, which had a very complex story line and multiple characters, the only way we/I could keep up with it was to watch the whole year's series one after the other in a wonderful week. Shows that don't have complex story lines, such as L&O: SVU we watch and delete immediately.

I've got two seasons of Hawaii Five O and Bluebloods stored up. I don't like either show and my wife is never gonna watch all of them, but she likes them and I have plenty of room for them. Also have to factor my son's shows into the whole thing and my granddaughter's shows.

I do have a lot of movies stored up.

The real kicker here is: I, personally, do not watch much D* content except for football games (Giants and Jets) and, of course, the Yankees. I prefer NetFlix to D*.

Rich

#69 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 21,348 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:24 AM

I would actually think that if there where to be any line drawn in the sand, it would be the hr34 and newer, simply because they appear to be the only receivers so far that can deal with larger hard drives. If that not a concern, then I would like to dream that it would work with any unit.


Be nice and logical, wouldn't it?

Rich

#70 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 21,348 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:29 AM

I agree.. But then again, we kind of had cloud storage already for some stations. On demand, for example with HBO, has everything. If all the channels went the same route as HBO then we would have cloud storage in a way that I think most people would be ok with. Its just that on demand now, except for HBO, is extremely lacking... :(


I should have mentioned that I have the Premier movie package only because of the scripted shows. I really enjoy them and record them in their entirety. I don't think you can get the HBO shows on VOD if you don't subscribe to HBO. Don't know how it works with other channels.

I've had a lot of instances of audio not being properly aligned with the video while watching VOD shows lately.

Rich

#71 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 21,348 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:35 AM

HDD failures are probably by far the most common failures. If you are using an external HDD, then if you suspect that the drive is beginning to fail, you just copy it to a new drive, and voila, back in business. To me, that is currently one of the best reasons to be using an external HDD, along with all the extra space you have.


We don't disagree often, but I gotta disagree with you here. I have had very few HDD failures since '06. I have had one internal drive fail (a Seagate Cuda 1.5) and a couple external HDDs. I've had many, many HRs fail for reasons other than the HDDs.

Rich

#72 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 21,348 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:41 AM

OK, I'll tell you my speculation as to why it won't happen or What DirecTV won't tell you :lol:

1. Dishes implementation is simpler as they only store video on the external drive.
2. All the external drives in use now are encrypted and tied to the individual DVR.
3. That tying to a specific DVR means that to go to a whole house key so that any External will work on any DVR in the house would mean wiping any External drive now in use. Can you imagine the backlash if everybody had their external drives wiped or the content rendered useless?

I can think of one scenario that would work and the programming might be tricky. Have the DVR detect that the video is tied to a specific unit for playback on old titles and any new titles stored on the drive use a whole house key. Plus that would lead to complaints that some of my videos don't play and others do.

Or slow down the HR series converting the encryption, if possible, to a whole house key.

That's off the top of my head.

Good Luck with your endeavor Rich
Roger


Huh. Sounds more complicated than I thought.

Rich

#73 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 21,348 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:55 AM

Nah, in the same programming update that starts it encoding with an account code instead of a unit code, you have the playback check to see if it was recorded with EITHER code. Couldn't take but one or two lines of code. What is lacking is the willingness to do it.


That makes me feel better.

Rich

#74 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 21,348 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:56 AM

Nothing can be done using OSX because OSX does not have any XFS tools. You need to use the xfsdump/xfsrestore method.

FYI, OSX is BSD which is a variant of Linux.


Hear that "whooshing" noise? That's the sound of your post going right over my head.... :lol:

Rich

#75 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

RunnerFL

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 16,059 posts
Joined: Jan 04, 2006

Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:15 AM

Hear that "whooshing" noise? That's the sound of your post going right over my head.... :lol:

Rich


You're probably not alone. ;)
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

#76 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 21,348 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:25 AM

You're probably not alone. ;)


Sometimes I feel so ignorant. I could have paid more attention to computers, I was into them in the beginning, but never had the urge or the time to learn more about them. Too late now...:nono2:

Rich

#77 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

RunnerFL

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 16,059 posts
Joined: Jan 04, 2006

Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:58 AM

Sometimes I feel so ignorant. I could have paid more attention to computers, I was into them in the beginning, but never had the urge or the time to learn more about them. Too late now...:nono2:

Rich


It's never too late. I learn something new every day.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

#78 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 21,348 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 02 October 2012 - 12:29 PM

It's never too late. I learn something new every day.


Me too, but I've got a lot of catching up to do just to understand some posts.

Rich

#79 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • Topic Starter
  • DBSTalk Club
  • 21,348 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 02 October 2012 - 12:48 PM

Please don't forget the topic of this thread is about the problems associated with using 3TB or 4TB drives and having the HR go south. I know how easy it is to go off topic, I do it all the time, but I think this is really important and we should deal with the main topic. Not trying to moderate, just a reminder. :)

Rich

#80 OFFLINE   Diana C

Diana C

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 1,951 posts
  • LocationNew Jersey
Joined: Mar 30, 2007

Posted 02 October 2012 - 02:04 PM

Nothing can be done using OSX because OSX does not have any XFS tools. You need to use the xfsdump/xfsrestore method.

FYI, OSX is BSD which is a variant of Linux.


Hear that "whooshing" noise? That's the sound of your post going right over my head.... :lol:

Rich


Rich....you should duck about now. :lol:

Actually, OSX is a descendant of NeXT, which was derived from Unix and borrowed a few things from BSD Unix. BSD is another derivative of Unix that has evolved quite a bit since it's "mating" to NeXT and MacOS. Linux is yet a third derivative of Unix.

All 3 operating systems have a common root, Unix, but evolved along different paths.

Edit: One other thing....most of the networking layer in Microsoft Windows was adapted from BSD.

Edited by Diana C, 02 October 2012 - 02:10 PM.

Dish Network Customer from 9/1998-11/2001
DirecTV Customer 10/2001 - 7/2014

FiOS TV/TiVo Customer since 6/2014
Moderator, DBSDish.com 1999-2000
Co-Founder and Administrator, DBSForums.com 2000-2006

Current setup:
DirecTV: HR34-700 (1TB) / HR24-100 (1TB) / HR24-500 (1TB) / HR21-700 (320GB) / HR21-100 (1TB) / 2 H25s / C41-500 / SWiM16 / Nomad / CCK

FiOS: 2 Tivo Roamio Pros (6 TB total) / 5 Tivo Minis attached via MOCA





Protected By... spam firewall...And...