Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo

Cable companies cap data use for revenue!


  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   maartena

maartena

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 2,795 posts
Joined: Nov 01, 2010

Posted 02 October 2012 - 04:36 PM

You sure about that? I thought it was more like 4 or 5 GB per hour on HD stuff. That's why the 500GB hard drives in the DVRs can hold around 100hours of HD. 500GB hard drive - 100GB for DirecTV's stuff = 400GB for recordings. That means 400GB/100HRs = 4GB/Hr. And I believe we have been told the On Demand stuff uses less compression/has higher bandwidth than the live stuff so it might take up even more.


The DVR's store the incoming feeds in a different format. They don't compress it that well for both quality reasons and the fact that the CPU of the DirecTV DVR would have problems (especially the older ones) compressing two video's at the same time. It would overheat. So it is stored in such a way the DVR has to do as little work as possible yet allowing as much video as possible to be stored. A balance.

Internet streams are much more compressed, and require a bit more CPU power when playing/decompressing.

I might be a bit off on the 1 Gb/1Hour thing, but it does come close to that. If you have the option, I guess you could monitor it: Don't use the internet for an hour or so and count the bytes coming in when downloading a 1 hour show.
[Disclaimer] The definition of "soon" is based solely on DirecTV's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "soon" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

I am the Stig.

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#22 OFFLINE   RACJ2

RACJ2

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 3,852 posts
Joined: Aug 02, 2008

Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:49 PM

TWC was going to try that here in Austin, but after the public got ahold of them, they backed off for now... only enforcing caps on the "cheap" internet plans...

TWC moved away from caps and is now offering an essentials package in select Texas cities. If you opt in, you get a $5 discount for staying under 5 GB/mo. Here is a link to an article on that. Also, my account on line started showing the usage chart below recently.

TWC “essentials” was first introduced in February in locations such as San Antonio, Laredo, Corpus Christi, and the Rio Grande Valley and the service has now been extended to other cities such as Austin, Dallas and El Paso. TWC was experimenting with usage-based pricing models in 2009 and back-tracked after a public outcry. The company has taken slow and measured steps to roll out usage-based pricing in dribs-and-drabs.


HR34-700, HR22-100

#23 OFFLINE   1948GG

1948GG

    Icon

  • Registered
  • 896 posts
Joined: Aug 04, 2007

Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:50 PM

Everytime I see one of these types of threads, I have to remind folks that ISP (cable, telco, whatever) are retailers, and no discussion of this can really proceed without a full knowledge of what the wholesale price of the item is on the open market.

1GByte of data from any of the teir1 wholesalers (level3, AT&T, you name it) is less than 1cent. 1cent.

The retailers are selling that thing they get for 1cent for at least 20times that. When their 'customers' exceed that artificial 'barrier', they charge 50-100+ times as much.

Sounds like a pretty good racket if you can get into it, and stay out of prison.

#24 OFFLINE   Diana C

Diana C

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 1,826 posts
  • LocationNew Jersey
Joined: Mar 30, 2007

Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:10 PM

I think that has been changing in recent years.... The big providers are already deploying 100 Gbps optical carrier lines between states and cross country, as well as across oceans. And not just one line, but a web of them.

The amount of traffic on the internet in general has doubled over the last 5 years, and the announced crash of the internet because of too much data has never happened. In 2005-2007 there were repeated "we are all going to die" scenarios announced in all sorts of reports.... bittorrent was going to destroy the internet, then youtube was going to destroy it, now maybe whatever streaming they will come up with next.... it hasn't happened, and the internet capacity has grown with demand.

The only thing holding internet development further back is the relatively low speeds for relatively high prices in this country. My mother gave me a call from her village in the Dutch countryside of 10.000 - she had been given a flier that announced fiberoptic service: Phone, 80 TV channels, and 30, 50 or 100 Mbps internet to my parents house.... and she called my to ask whether she needed 100 for her internet, and I told her that 30 (with 30 upload!) was going to be enough for her. Total price of that all wasn't even 60 Euro.

Granted, it is "only" 80 channels of television, but they simply don't have that many in The Netherlands, it is a small country. More than half of the channels are from other European countries as well. It included about 20 HD channels.

And no.... no data caps of any kind. Most European providers STARTED with data caps for the right reason: Investment was expensive. In the last 5 years however, most providers have dropped their caps, as they had recouped their investment and their networks were able to handle oodles of traffic. Here in the U.S. its the other way around.... and not for the same reason.


What you describe is very true for cities and their suburbs. I live about 30 outside NYC and get 75/35 service for about $45/mo via FiOS (bundled with digital phone service). But large portions of America can not get anything close to that. I have a friend that owns a business in central Connecticut and all he can get at a reasonable price (under $150/mo) is AT&T DSL (500kbps because of distance from the CO). Once you get into rural areas, they still have nothing but dial-up available.

Oh, and the Netherlands (along most of Europe) has cheaper service because the companies' profit margins are regulated. They dropped their caps because they were required to, not because they wanted to (or, in many cases, the ISP is a government agency). In this country we have the quaint belief that competition will always lead to the best service at the lowest price. ISPs here have invested where they can make the most profit...this is why Verizon has stopped hanging fiber for residential service...they have already covered all the areas where they believe they can make a large profit.

Dish Network Customer from 9/1998-11/2001
DirecTV Customer 10/2001 - 7/2014

FiOS TV/TiVo Customer since 6/2014
Moderator, DBSDish.com 1999-2000
Co-Founder and Administrator, DBSForums.com 2000-2006

Current setup:
DirecTV: HR34-700 (1TB) / HR24-100 (1TB) / HR24-500 (1TB) / HR21-700 (320GB) / HR21-100 (1TB) / 2 H25s / C41-500 / SWiM16 / Nomad / CCK

FiOS: 2 Tivo Roamio Pros (6 TB total) / 5 Tivo Minis attached via MOCA


#25 OFFLINE   Blurayfan

Blurayfan

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 1,747 posts
  • LocationIllinois
Joined: Nov 16, 2005

Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:34 PM

In terms of bandwidth usage per hour for HD the ones I have seen is for PC download Amazon shows a TV episode at 45 minutes in length at a bit rate of 6000 kbps 720p video, 5.1 audio 384 kbps. File size is listed at 2.1GB. Streaming the same show maxes out 2500 kbps video and audio at stereo 192 kbps.

Apple iTunes download for the same episode in 1080p is about 1.79 GB. iTunes shows specs as 5000 kbps for video, 384 kbps 5.1 Dolby Digital and a stereo track at 160 kbps.

Slimlin-5 with SWM16
HR44-700 with AM21 OTA tuner and eSATA 4.0 TB
HR24-500 with AM21 OTA tuner and eSATA 2.0 TB
HR21-700 with DECA adapter for network
Network: Netgear R7000
Internet: Comcast 105/20


#26 OFFLINE   Beerstalker

Beerstalker

    Hall Of Fame

  • Registered
  • 2,986 posts
Joined: Feb 09, 2009

Posted 03 October 2012 - 03:41 PM

The DVR's store the incoming feeds in a different format. They don't compress it that well for both quality reasons and the fact that the CPU of the DirecTV DVR would have problems (especially the older ones) compressing two video's at the same time. It would overheat. So it is stored in such a way the DVR has to do as little work as possible yet allowing as much video as possible to be stored. A balance.

Internet streams are much more compressed, and require a bit more CPU power when playing/decompressing.

I might be a bit off on the 1 Gb/1Hour thing, but it does come close to that. If you have the option, I guess you could monitor it: Don't use the internet for an hour or so and count the bytes coming in when downloading a 1 hour show.


Sure Amazon, iTunes, Netflix, etc. can use different compression and frame rates, etc., but I thought we were talking about DirecTV's On-Demand content and the affect of these data caps on it's usage. DirecTVs On-Demand has to stick to pretty much the same type of compression as what they are using over the satellites, or else I don't think the DVRs would be able to handle it. So like I said with DirecTV's On-Demand content you are looking at 4-5GB/hr I believe, which will eat up those data caps pretty quick.

If we aren't talking about DirecTV's on-Demand, but instead all these other providers then isn't this thread in the wrong place?
Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and all of their hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, they might be out of work and their dreams would be shattered. Then I say to myself, "It is better that I drink this beer and let their dreams come true than be selfish and worry about my liver."
-by Jack Handy

#27 OFFLINE   AMike

AMike

    Godfather

  • Registered
  • 370 posts
Joined: Nov 21, 2005

Posted 04 October 2012 - 01:53 PM

When Comcast announced their data caps a few years back, we were considered in the 1% class of heavy users due to all of the content we streamed from Netflix and VOD from D*. I switched from a residential account to a business account to avoid any data caps (plus, I do work from home so I had a legitimate reason for justifying the switch). The price was comparable to my residential account. Unfortunately for me, my business account contract expires next June and I'm sure I will get hit with a significant increase.

DirecTV subscriber 1999-2011, 2012 - present
Comcast subscriber 2011-2012, 2013 - present
 





Protected By... spam firewall...And...