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Guest Message by DevFuse

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1 Hopper, 1 Joey-How can 4 PTAT shows be recorded at 9pm?


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16 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   RVRambler

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 10:23 AM

9pm as an example. (also searched by no direct explanation of how this really occurs that I found-I am sure answered somewhere but....)

So a Hopper has 3 tuners, it takes a single tuner to record a single show, PTAT uses 2 (of 3) tuners max, How can it record 4 SIMULTANEOUS shows AND allow user to view/record another?

I am assuming (scary word) that the Joey has a tuner (2?) and it can record a PTAT event (OR 2) onto the Hopper HDD, OR are there 'Hidden' tuners in Hopper I do not know about?

Thanks in advance for a very basic question! :confused:
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#2 OFFLINE   arvetus

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 10:34 AM

Joey's don't have tuners. They use the Hopper's tuners.

PTAT works in that the Hopper records the entire sat transponder that the local broadcast stations are on, only requiring a single tuner, leaving you 2 tuners to do with as you please.

PTAT grabs the 4 broadcast networks, ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX which run on a single transponder that dumps its data to the Hopper. Thus 4 shows at once.

PTAT is either on or off. If it's on, during prime time, PTAT will use ONE of the three tuners.

PTAT will only work if your local broadcast stations are available in HD. If your locals are only in SD, PTAT won't function.

#3 OFFLINE   puckwithahalo

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 10:36 AM

The hopper records all 4 stations using just 1 tuner for PTAT because all 4 come off of the same satellite and transponder so it just records the entire transponder.
The postings on this site are my own and don't represent Dish's positions, strategies, or opinions.

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#4 OFFLINE   garys

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 10:40 AM

To be totally clear, the PTAT records Prime Time Networks (ABC, NBC, CBS and Fox) between 7pm - 11pm. The four (if you have all four) will use only 1 tuner to record leaving 2 tuners open. And Joeys do not have tuners, they make use of one of the Hopper's 3 tuners as arvetus stated.

#5 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:58 AM

Joey's don't have tuners. They use the Hopper's tuners.

PTAT works in that the Hopper records the entire sat transponder that the local broadcast stations are on, only requiring a single tuner, leaving you 2 tuners to do with as you please.

PTAT grabs the 4 broadcast networks, ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX which run on a single transponder that dumps its data to the Hopper. Thus 4 shows at once.

PTAT is either on or off. If it's on, during prime time, PTAT will use ONE of the three tuners.

PTAT will only work if your local broadcast stations are available in HD. If your locals are only in SD, PTAT won't function.


That's wrong.

H2k recording only the 4 or so major stations. Not all set of stations in the transponder.

#6 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:58 AM

The hopper records all 4 stations using just 1 tuner for PTAT because all 4 come off of the same satellite and transponder so it just records the entire transponder.


Wrong.

H2k recording only the 4 or so major stations. Not all set of stations in the transponder.

#7 OFFLINE   RVRambler

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 12:55 PM

Great responses but....

Technically, recording the entire bitstream of a transponder/spot beam makes very good sense (a special? tuner w/ adequate bandwidth/bit rate capability), ie otherwise you need a (normal) single tuner per show.

But now latter posts are saying, Wrong, it records the major locals (implied) even if NOT on the same transponder/spot beam (ie-it appears that many/all SD locals are NOT on same transponder/satellite as HD), so which is it, CAN'T be the latter unless 'hidden' transponder/satellite selectable tuners in Hopper!!!!

Question: Are all Mpeg-4 tuners (even prior Hopper tuners) 'capturing' all the transponder bitstream, then tossing the unwanted and write/save the user selected event??
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#8 OFFLINE   garys

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 01:19 PM

If you check, Dish does put the four major nets on the same spot/transponder. It records the four but not the rest of the locals on the same spot.

#9 OFFLINE   RVRambler

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 02:27 PM

If you check, Dish does put the four major nets on the same spot/transponder. It records the four but not the rest of the locals on the same spot.


Have done so many years ago, & NOT true if you have a mix of SD & HD, ie all the SD are on same, all the HD are on same, but NOT necessarily SD & HD on the same (1 set of locals), thus, if you have a mix, many non major markets are like this, PTAT is SOL! or you have to mix PTAT (HD) & man. timers (SD) to get all PT shows (ie 4 or however many you desire-SD/HD mix).

Correct?
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#10 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 04:08 PM

Great responses but....

Technically, recording the entire bitstream of a transponder*/spot beam makes very good sense (a special? tuner w/ adequate bandwidth/bit rate capability), ie otherwise you need a (normal) single tuner per show.

But now latter posts are saying, Wrong, it records the major locals (implied) even if NOT on the same transponder**/spot beam (ie-it appears that many/all SD locals are NOT on same transponder/satellite as HD), so which is it, CAN'T be the latter unless 'hidden' transponder/satellite selectable tuners in Hopper!!!!

Question: Are all Mpeg-4 tuners (even prior Hopper tuners) 'capturing' all the transponder bitstream, then tossing the unwanted and write/save the user selected event??


* Do you understand higher requirement for storage space ? Do you understand writing whole mux and not giving access to other then major four is waste of it ?
** Where you got it ? I never give a clue to that wrong assumption.

Answer: You need to be more familiar how TS processing... In short: There are PIDs filtering processes.
No need making own wrong theories. Internet is full of info, Wiki for example. ;)

#11 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 04:16 PM

But now latter posts are saying, Wrong, it records the major locals (implied) even if NOT on the same transponder/spot beam

Try not to be confused by the "wrong" posts.

DISH currently has their HD markets set up so all four major networks are in HD on the same transponder, making it easy to use one transponder to record all four major networks at the same time. The PTAT function takes advantage of this and records each evening's programming (within the user's settings for PTAT and availability of HD feeds in the market).

It appears DISH is preparing to extend PTAT to SD locals but I have seen no reports of PTAT working with SD yet. Extending to SD will help in markets where HD is not available and (with channel movements) where a major network is not in HD.

The PTAT function has changed since the Hopper was introduced earlier this year ... and the "technical understanding" of how it works is now better understood by people who have gone under the hood. But the basic description is the same: record up to four of the major broadcast network HD channels at the same time from one transponder for the duration of prime time.

#12 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 04:35 PM

Some ppl prefer to live in own rarely updated sphere of knowledge, pretend if "I" didn't read it, then it not exist ...

I mean that initial theories how h2k storing PTA on a drive; but since the info revealed and published here... Why repeat/post that obsolete and wrong theories as real knowledge ?

#13 OFFLINE   RVRambler

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 06:31 PM

To be a nice guy I will not respond to the post before yours! :)

I really was NOT confused, and really surprised by the poster before my previous post, I was referring to since he was obviously wrong (I do not have a Hopper/Joey, I was posting for a very confused friend who does!) but I decided to reply as 'confused', which 'I' (I once was an computer designer-BSEE) was not to make sure of 'total transponder recording' vs some magical tuner crap (my friend was very confused!), which the clueless poster posted.

My friend ONLY has SD locals, no HD offered (Bend, Oregon) whereas I have the Portland locals (HD-8chs-722k), we are camping 200 ft apart.

I just verified that SD ONLY locals are supported for PTAT & he has recordings to prove it from few nights - He is new to Dish.

I suggested to him to change his locals to get HD but had to explain spot beams and having to change locals if you travel out of the spot, blah blah.....

He also had absolutely no clue how PTAT tech. works, I have now explained to him, showed him how to filter PTAT, showed him that he still has 2 tuners for man. timers, etc. He is even confused with simple timers, not a very bright guy, nice but Sara Palin clueless!

I am done with issue with him & now done with this post! :) Adios Amigos! :D

PS: I am surprised with ONLY the 4 major locals for PTAT, no CW or PBS, etc being included as options for markets that have them. Future PTAT versions may be more versatile!

Thanks to all those with CORRECT answers! :)

Try not to be confused by the "wrong" posts.

DISH currently has their HD markets set up so all four major networks are in HD on the same transponder, making it easy to use one transponder to record all four major networks at the same time. The PTAT function takes advantage of this and records each evening's programming (within the user's settings for PTAT and availability of HD feeds in the market).

It appears DISH is preparing to extend PTAT to SD locals but I have seen no reports of PTAT working with SD yet. Extending to SD will help in markets where HD is not available and (with channel movements) where a major network is not in HD.

The PTAT function has changed since the Hopper was introduced earlier this year ... and the "technical understanding" of how it works is now better understood by people who have gone under the hood. But the basic description is the same: record up to four of the major broadcast network HD channels at the same time from one transponder for the duration of prime time.


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#14 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 07:46 PM

I wish Dish would pick up my local CW in HD... DirecTV has my local CW and MyNetwork in HD actually... so Dish is lagging in my DMA.

Meanwhile... I suspect the "real" reason PBS is not part of PTAT is because there are no commercials on PBS. The co-driving factor of PTAT is that's when AutoHOP works... and PBS doesn't have commercials during a show.

*I* would still think it nice if PBS was captured every night with PTAT as I sometimes forget to look for things on PBS in primetime... but it doesn't show off the AutoHOP feature like the other networks do.

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#15 OFFLINE   RVRambler

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 12:49 AM

I spent many years in the triangle, lived in Raleigh, Durham county, as well as in Charlotte.

When I first got Dish, 1988/89 or so (Dish had about 270,000 subscribers then) I signed up for East-West locals, had WRAL as the East CBS Feed. It was so nice to have that 3 hr. delay so that I could use 2 VCR's to record 2/3/4 shows which occurred at same time!!

Even then, Panasonic offered a VCR that would 'skip' (actually mark the beginning and end of a commercial' and when playing back it would fast forward automatically, I had to do it manually!! :)

You will probably hate this but "Go Duke"!! (Basketball, don't care otherwise!)
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#16 OFFLINE   arvetus

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 03:46 PM

My locals are available in HD, but DISH does not carry them in HD.
I get them in HD OTA...

#17 OFFLINE   RVRambler

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:37 PM

My locals are available in HD, but DISH does not carry them in HD.
I get them in HD OTA...


HD is most any DMA, but I think it is a small amount of 'contract' but I think it is mostly satellite capacity, Dish does not have enough! There are duplicates (DTV too) on multiple sats, so Dish loses their full carrying capability with that & not enough Spot beam capability/use, well maybe! :)

CW in HD just popped up not long ago in San Francisco! Most places are a smaller DMA & this slow, me thinks a tech. reason!
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