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Gannett Hopping Mad Over 'Hopper' -- Longterm agreement reached!


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186 replies to this topic

#101 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:12 PM

Sort of on topic, sort of an aside--Why doesn't the hopper have an ota module? Then even if a station pulls its signal over a desire to have the autohop feature disabled, ota viewers could continue to autohop. Or is there some reason that autohop won't work on ota?

It will have the OTA module "soon". Currently AutoHop only works on the four PTAT network channels during prime time. I suppose as long as DISH has the information they could extend it to OTA received channels, PTAT content recorded manually or even non Hopper receivers.

DISH generally doesn't support channels not carried on their system ... if the Gannett stations go down EPG will not be available for the OTA reception. With the receiver "not knowing" what program was on at that time it would not match the AutoHop information.

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#102 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 12:12 AM

As long as commercial skipping is activated by consumers on ANY DVR there is probably nothing networks can do. THIS ALREADY HAS BEEN UPHELD IN COURT AS LEGAL. If networks refuse carriage because of commercial skipping then either there will be huge lawsuits against all networks that engage in dropping carriage or ALL DVR'S IN THE COUNTRY WILL HAVE DISCONTINUE commercial skipping or it goes back to court.


I'd love to see the ruling that what dish is doing is legal, because the only other DVR I know of that ever did what dish is doing is replaytv, and they never had a verdict in that case, replay gave in and disable it because they knew they wouldn't win in the end no matter what the ruling would have been.

Auto hop is in no way shape or form the same thing as having trickplay on a DVR.

#103 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 12:21 AM

I don't see where the networks have a leg to stand on - period. The Sony Betamax decision, the FACT that the whole program (including commercials) is stored on the DVR - this can be easily demonstrated in court, and there's not a jury in the USA that would side with the Networks as to whether it is legal or not.

If the networks want to take their ball and go home - that's their decision.


Aside from the fact that I disagree with you (dish is the one choosing what to skip with your consent, not you choosing what to skip, which are very different things, and its questionable at best if it matters if dish is doing it in the home or at their headquarters, they are still the ones doing it with their equipment) no matter how you look at it, if oj can get away with murder, and you can sue mcdonalds for millions over spilt coffee and win, you can't really expect to know for sure what any jury would ever decide these days. :)

#104 OFFLINE   Inkosaurus

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 03:30 AM

and you can sue mcdonalds for millions over spilt coffee and win


This has got to be DBStalks favorite example lol.

#105 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 03:43 AM

Keep hearing the 300% increase demanded of Dish. Is this just a flat out lie posted on Kare 11 (Gannett MPLS/St. Paul) stations website?

Q: I have heard DISH say that KARE11 is demanding a big fee increase, which would lead to higher satellite bills. Is that true?

A: No. KARE11 has successfully negotiated agreements with all the other providers in our area based on the same basic terms that are being offered to DISH. Those other providers were willing to reach a deal. So far, DISH is not. In any case, we do not believe customers should be dragged into the middle of business disputes. We know that what matters to you is getting what you pay for and not losing programs you love. That is why we are focused on reaching a fair, market-based deal as quickly as possible.


If they are asking for 300% and post this crafty but innocent sounding reply to the public then they are slime.


To be fair... they didn't answer the question. They dodged it by saying they have agreements with other providers. Those other providers could be ones with an older contract not yet up for renewal OR contracts where the other provider agreed to those "big increases" that they wanted.

They only way they could truthfully answer without dodging would be to state what Dish pays now vs what they are wanting Dish to agree to pay for the future.

Since they won't tell you that... I would believe they know somewhere in the back of their mind that they are asking more than customers would feel is justified. Otherwise a lot of the debate would dissolve if they just spoke factually about how much they are asking.

Nobody ever does that, though.

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#106 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 04:02 AM

Keep hearing the 300% increase demanded of Dish. Is this just a flat out lie posted on Kare 11 (Gannett MPLS/St. Paul) stations website?

Q: I have heard DISH say that KARE11 is demanding a big fee increase, which would lead to higher satellite bills. Is that true?

A: No. KARE11 has successfully negotiated agreements with all the other providers in our area based on the same basic terms that are being offered to DISH. Those other providers were willing to reach a deal. So far, DISH is not. In any case, we do not believe customers should be dragged into the middle of business disputes. We know that what matters to you is getting what you pay for and not losing programs you love. That is why we are focused on reaching a fair, market-based deal as quickly as possible.


If they are asking for 300% and post this crafty but innocent sounding reply to the public then they are slime.

As noted earlier ....

5c per customer jumping to 20c is 300%. 10c to 40c is 300%. 25c to $1 is 300%.

So the public statement you quoted is nothing more than doubletalk and corporate propaganda-speak.

We, the consumers will never know the dollar amounts involved, so we kind of have to pick and choose which source we choose to believe.
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#107 OFFLINE   dakeeney

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 04:43 AM

when it started, it was active by default. After complaints/whining, DISH changed the default to 'off' and forced the consumer to enable it.


:D
BINGO!!! There's the magic statement that a lawyer would love to use against the networks.

#108 OFFLINE   MysteryMan

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 05:09 AM

:D
BINGO!!! There's the magic statement that a lawyer would love to use against the networks.


Still doesn't guarantee a judge woul rule in favor of DISH. No such thing as a slam dunk in our judicial system.

Edited by MysteryMan, 07 October 2012 - 08:49 AM.

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#109 OFFLINE   Bobham

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 08:21 AM

I will support dish in any dispute with the content providers. Go Charlie!

#110 OFFLINE   coldsteel

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:21 AM

Still doesn't guarantee a judge woul rule in favor of DISH. No such thing as a slam dunk in our judicial system.


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#111 OFFLINE   Henry

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:05 AM

I live in the Denver market and haven't lost my Gannett channels yet. Has anyone?

NEVER MIND ... The deadline is at midnight.

Edited by Henry, 07 October 2012 - 11:19 AM.

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#112 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 01:43 PM

:D
BINGO!!! There's the magic statement that a lawyer would love to use against the networks.


That's more like saying Vcrs are legal because you have to take them out of standby. It doesn't change how the device functions.

#113 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 01:43 PM

I live in the Denver market and haven't lost my Gannett channels yet. Has anyone?

NEVER MIND ... The deadline is at midnight.


I really hope you guys don't lose your channels.

#114 OFFLINE   satcrazy

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 01:46 PM

Aside from the fact that I disagree with you (dish is the one choosing what to skip with your consent, not you choosing what to skip, which are very different things, and its questionable at best if it matters if dish is doing it in the home or at their headquarters, they are still the ones doing it with their equipment) no matter how you look at it,

if oj can get away with murder,

and you can sue mcdonalds for millions over spilt coffee and win, you can't really expect to know for sure what any jury would ever decide these days. :)


Yeah, but he got nailed for Sat piracy.

Never underestimate the power of the providers:D

#115 OFFLINE   fudpucker

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 01:47 PM

Stepping back, I do wonder what happens when the people who pay channels/networks to air their commercials realize that very few people actually watch the commercials. I don't think we're there today (using posters on this board as a measure of the general public, and probably even the general public who subscribe to Dish, is likely faulty; people who read and post here are people who are much more into the details, technology, etc. than the average person who has no idea what the heck DBStalk is.)

But if the technology continues and becomes more widespread, the value of commercials will become less and less, which means companies will pay channels less and less money to carry those commercials. Which means the primary source of income for many networks/channels will have to shift away from commercials.

I'm not sure that is a long term good thing for us as viewers.

#116 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 02:04 PM

Stepping back, I do wonder what happens when the people who pay channels/networks to air their commercials realize that very few people actually watch the commercials. I don't think we're there today (using posters on this board as a measure of the general public, and probably even the general public who subscribe to Dish, is likely faulty; people who read and post here are people who are much more into the details, technology, etc. than the average person who has no idea what the heck DBStalk is.)

But if the technology continues and becomes more widespread, the value of commercials will become less and less, which means companies will pay channels less and less money to carry those commercials. Which means the primary source of income for many networks/channels will have to shift away from commercials.

I'm not sure that is a long term good thing for us as viewers.


Have you seen an episode of bones ?(among others) lately? If so, that's part of what will happen. :D

#117 OFFLINE   satcrazy

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 02:09 PM

Stepping back, I do wonder what happens when the people who pay channels/networks to air their commercials realize that very few people actually watch the commercials. I don't think we're there today (using posters on this board as a measure of the general public, and probably even the general public who subscribe to Dish, is likely faulty; people who read and post here are people who are much more into the details, technology, etc. than the average person who has no idea what the heck DBStalk is.)

[code=auto:0]But if the technology continues and becomes more widespread, the value of commercials will become less and less, which means companies will pay channels less and less money to carry those commercials. Which means the primary source of income for many networks/channels will have to shift away from commercials.

I'm not sure that is a long term good thing for us as viewers.


Well, the moment someone pushed the button on their betamax, [ how long ago was that?] the change began. Plenty of time to re-think the game, yet they keep on the same course. I will give some credit for creative commercials, but aside from that, what has changed?

There are plenty of examples of this all around you, but IMO, it has to do with profit margins. Push back may look like anarchy, but with no forward movement, or building a better mouse trap, we wouldn't even be posting on this forum.

#118 OFFLINE   fudpucker

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 02:19 PM

Have you seen an episode of bones ?(among others) lately? If so, that's part of what will happen. :D


Are you talking about where they get in a car and blatantly talk about its features? To the point they even do it in a self-aware, winking manner? Yeah, my wife and I laugh about that.

But I doubt Ford would consider that a complete replacement for a high end Ford ad on a top 10 major network show. The last data I saw showed that, in spite of DVRs, the majority of people still watch TV live and watch the commercials.

To take it to the extreme, if we reach a point at which the vast majority of viewers don't watch commercials, we are going to see some changes that I don't think will be favorable to us, the viewers. Things like forcing providers such as cable and sat providers to pay more since they won't be getting revenue from companies who paid big bucks for commercial time, and commercials that run under the show as it plays the way they clutter up the screen today with commercials for their own shows.

#119 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 02:53 PM

.....

But I doubt Ford would consider that a complete replacement for a high end Ford ad on a top 10 major network show. The last data I saw showed that, in spite of DVRs, the majority of people still watch TV live and watch the commercials.
........


And people wonder why creating a one time setting to skip all commercials would make a difference, vs having to do it manually every time....

#120 OFFLINE   fudpucker

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 03:08 PM

And people wonder why creating a one time setting to skip all commercials would make a difference, vs having to do it manually every time....


I have met a lot of people who aren't very tech savvy who have Dish or DirectTV with DVRs, who figure out how to set them to record their favorite shows but then watch the shows the same way they would live, i.e. they don't watch with the remote in hand skipping commercials, they just turn the show on and watch it. Commercials and all.

I suspect there are more people like that out there than regular readers of a forum like this would guess.

#121 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 03:09 PM

And people wonder why creating a one time setting to skip all commercials would make a difference, vs having to do it manually every time....

Do you WANT to skip commercials manually every time? If so, the default option on AutoHop is "no thanks" ... you can get back to wearing out the remote control skip buttons.

The core purpose of the VCR was to allow people to view what they wanted as many times as they wanted when they wanted and not view what they wanted to skip. Technology has improved over the years with the DVR moving to digital storage and "watch while record" capability ... along with more accurate skipping of blocks of time. AutoHop and similar technologies are just the next step in that evolution.

In general, I'd say that people do not want to watch commercials. There are good commercials that people tolerate but it is not very often that I hear someone say "I'm going to go watch TV ... I hope I see a terrific new ad". I only hear that at one time of the year ... the "big game" where many viewers are watching for the commercials more than the football.

For decades people have wanted control over their TVs. Starting with "I can buy programs on tape" and quickly moving to "I can record programs on tape" (with the related lawsuits from what we would now call content providers) until where we are today. Not seeing commercials is something people want ... something people have invested money in achieving (including buying DVDs or non-DISH equipment that also skips commercials). And if DISH customers don't want their commercials skipped, they can always choose "no thanks".

#122 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 03:32 PM

i.e. they don't watch with the remote in hand skipping commercials, they just turn the show on and watch it. Commercials and all.

I suspect there are more people like that out there than regular readers of a forum like this would guess.


Maybe, but those would be the same people who use commercials as breaks to go to the bathroom, get a snack or whatever else. It still doesn't mean they actually watch commercials.

The only way I can think of to prove how many people really watch them would be to get some data from marketers of those 'but wait, there's more! Call now to double the offer!' type product commercials and find out how many people call during or immediately after those ads air.
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#123 OFFLINE   fudpucker

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 04:20 PM

Well, the big companies certainly have their marketing data. And when you look at what an ad cost, a 30 second ad on American Idol costs about $500,000 in 2011. Add up how many ads there are in a one hour American Idol show, and that's a ton of money Fox gets from companies who think there is a huge return on their ad. American Idol is on the high end, but even The Simpsons charges a quarter of a million dollars for every 30 second ad.

So these companies certainly have some kind of data that tells them spending millions and millions on 30 second ads results in a lot of sales/revenue of some kind. And certainly the network's model depends upon having those many, many million in ad revenue coming in every night. Which is why I say, as soon as the companies decide ads aren't being watched, they will stop paying television networks all that cash, and they will then have to find other sources of that income. Almost certainly that will involve viewers picking up the costs.

#124 OFFLINE   tommiet

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 05:19 PM

Customers want to skip commercials, channels don't want you to... customers don't want to lose their channels.

Dish can't win for losing.

If Dish takes away trick play commercial skipping features, customers will complain too... I guarantee that.



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#125 OFFLINE   LazhilUT

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 05:55 PM

Stupid Dish Network...
AMC is gone and is never coming back...
Disney Channels in HD will never, ever be on their lineup...
Now I'm losing NBC here in Atlanta...now that I finally got hooked on an NBC show...Go On...

And as someone pointed out...funny how Dish ALWAYS says the brodcasters are asking for 300% increases...that's their go to number...




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