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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Gannett Hopping Mad Over 'Hopper' -- Longterm agreement reached!


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186 replies to this topic

#161 OFFLINE   tampa8

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:35 AM

All I know is my bill better not increase because of this crap. Don't have the hopper and don't want it. Let the people using autohop pay for it.


You will undoubtedly pay more if Dish does not stand up now. As I alluded to above, the the VHS and DVR did not go away, as much as has evolved. Technology does not stop because a company wants to be greedy. Protecting your assets of course, but ask the music industry and movie industry how trying to stop technology worked out. All the copy protection etc.. was a waste of their money and time. Had they just focused on what the consumer was looking for - downloading songs without having to get the whole album from the start, they would not have wasted their resources. Seems the models that evolved are working quite nicely. And the strong resistance to having video recordings in the home, along with movies? Turned into a bonanza for the movie industry, and it evolved from Betamax/VHS to DVD, to Blue-ray and streaming.
If the skip feature were to go away, there is no question something similar will show up somewhere else. (Direct TV it is said has a similar feature in the wings)

And for the record, this "dispute" was never ever about the Hoppa it was about money, and Gannett used the skip feature as a ruse.

Edited by tampa8, 09 October 2012 - 11:40 AM.


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#162 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 02:01 PM

Keeping Hopper for these channels is definitely a win for Dish.
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#163 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 03:39 PM

People w/ the Hopper are paying more. $4 more for DVR service plus each Joey costs them an additional $7, so most people with that set up end up paying about an extra $11/mo as compared to someone w/ the older equipment.

It depends on what the customer had. On a single receiver the Joey is an additional cost they would not have ... but $7 per outlet (beyond the first) has been a part of DISH's calculations for a couple of years.

EG: Two Duo DVRS would cost $17 in equipment costs (first one free - second one $7 per output plus $3 because it is a DVR). Two hoppers and a Joey would cost $14 ($7 for each receiver beyond the first). The whole home fee needs to be added to pay for that technology ... which is similar to what DirecTV charges for whole home. PTAT and AutoHop are a bonus.

Keeping Hopper for these channels is definitely a win for Dish.

It is better to lose the channel than to allow stations to opt out or charge extra to be hopable. If stations were allowed to opt out and stay on DISH most would. Making the decision a choice between accepting the technology or not having the station's programs seen at all makes the decision "no hopper or no carriage". Most stations want carriage.

#164 OFFLINE   fudpucker

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 03:48 PM

Agh, having a hard time trying to figure these costs out (in an airport, delayed flight, so pretty tired/stressed.)

So, I currently have a 722 and two 612s. If I replaced these with a Hopper and two Joeys, how much more a month would my bill be?

#165 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 03:53 PM

So, I currently have a 722 and two 612s. If I replaced these with a Hopper and two Joeys, how much more a month would my bill be?

Currently: 722 free, each 612 $10 = $20
New: Hopper free, each Joey $7 = $14 + $4 whole home fee = $18
+ DVR fee and programming ...you pay $2 less

I'd recommend two hoppers and a joey instead. Same monthly cost, more tuners.

#166 OFFLINE   fudpucker

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 04:55 PM

Currently: 722 free, each 612 $10 = $20
New: Hopper free, each Joey $7 = $14 + $4 whole home fee = $18
+ DVR fee and programming ...you pay $2 less

I'd recommend two hoppers and a joey instead. Same monthly cost, more tuners.


Huh, would have expected it to be more, thanks.

#167 OFFLINE   inazsully

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 05:02 PM

Is there any reason to trade in my 722 with OTA hooked up and a 1.5TB EHD for the Hopper?

#168 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 06:27 PM

Is there any reason to trade in my 722 with OTA hooked up and a 1.5TB EHD for the Hopper?

Probably not. If you have a second HD TV location the Hopper/Joey setup works nice (single Duo DVR like the 722 to Hopper+Joey is workable). At the moment having OTA vs having PTAT/AutoHop and the third tuner is the decision point.

As setups get more complex the decision becomes more personal ... what are you doing with it.

#169 OFFLINE   tsmacro

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:52 AM

It depends on what the customer had. On a single receiver the Joey is an additional cost they would not have ... but $7 per outlet (beyond the first) has been a part of DISH's calculations for a couple of years.


Yes my comment was based on anyone that has two or more tv's (most customers) will pay on average $11/mo more for Dish service with a Hopper system than without because the DVR cost is $4/mo more and there'll be one additional outlet fee ($7) over a typical install using previous equipment as most installs that have two or more tv's usually start with a *22 receiver which powers two tv's with one receiver. So yes obviously there are scenarios where it wouldn't be exactly $11 more for Hopper customers but that is the most common one.


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#170 OFFLINE   yogi

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 09:35 AM

You will undoubtedly pay more if Dish does not stand up now. As I alluded to above, the the VHS and DVR did not go away, as much as has evolved. Technology does not stop because a company wants to be greedy. Protecting your assets of course, but ask the music industry and movie industry how trying to stop technology worked out. All the copy protection etc.. was a waste of their money and time. Had they just focused on what the consumer was looking for - downloading songs without having to get the whole album from the start, they would not have wasted their resources. Seems the models that evolved are working quite nicely. And the strong resistance to having video recordings in the home, along with movies? Turned into a bonanza for the movie industry, and it evolved from Betamax/VHS to DVD, to Blue-ray and streaming.
If the skip feature were to go away, there is no question something similar will show up somewhere else. (Direct TV it is said has a similar feature in the wings)

And for the record, this "dispute" was never ever about the Hoppa it was about money, and Gannett used the skip feature as a ruse.


WOW, Thanks for straightening that out for me.
I thought the music companys lost money due to file sharing.
and since when was running a buisness greedy?
If go to work and ask for a raise in pay. Would that make you greedy?

And yes, the"dispute" was about the hopper. The lost revenue in commercial sales.

#171 OFFLINE   Omahabrownie

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 10:17 AM

Please show me the proof that there is lost add revenue and if there is a lose, how much of that is because the networks have said there is going to be a lose. Kind of a self serving don't you think. All companies and individuals are allowed to make money but there is a point were they are to greedy and I think that point has been reached by networks and performers both.

#172 OFFLINE   tampa8

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 10:47 AM

WOW, Thanks for straightening that out for me.
I thought the music companys lost money due to file sharing.
and since when was running a buisness greedy?
If go to work and ask for a raise in pay. Would that make you greedy?

And yes, the"dispute" was about the hopper. The lost revenue in commercial sales.

You are just plain wrong on the hoppa being the issue. It's money, always is. You fell for their ruse. If it was being against the skip feature Gannett would not have settled. Do you see the networks trying to settle with Dish on that? No, because for them it is about the technology,(and as they see it loss of money - so still about money) it never was for Gannett. Gannett already has a fight for the skip feature, it's being done by the Parent networks. This was not about that. And one last thing on that, Gannett, fwiw, is saying the dispute was not about the Hoppa
"A person at Gannett with direct knowledge of the talks, who did not want to be identified because the discussions are not public, said that while the business implications of the Hopper were part of negotiations, the DVR was not at the center of the dispute." Another words, about money.
http://www.chicagotr...0,6404076.story
What does my comments have to do with businesses making money. Take a look at my posts here and the other site (been at both sites from their very beginnings) and I do usually have the business thoughts in mind when posting. It has nothing to do with a business making money, they have to or I can't buy from them. This is about once again fighting the inevitable technology rather than analyze it and take advantage of it.

Your example exactly supports what I said, so thank-you. File Sharing. Not legal, hurting the industry. But why? Because they were trying to artificially stop legitimate technology and at the same time not give the customer what it wants. Out of the file sharing came exactly what the customer wants, downloading a song, not a whole album. What has changed? The business model. I and apparently most are willing to pay in the range of 99 cents to about $129 for a song, to have it easily downloaded to all my devices, have cloud use, etc.... It gave the customer what it wants, and for the most part ended the file sharing problem.

You really can't see the skip feature being the same thing just as the fight against VHS or DVR's functions? And the quicker settlement when Dish always lets channels walk, indicate it was about money for Gannett? The Hoppa and the skip feature are still there, and what do you know, so is Gannett.

Edited by tampa8, 10 October 2012 - 11:25 AM.


#173 OFFLINE   Paul Secic

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 10:50 AM

People w/ the Hopper are paying more. $4 more for DVR service plus each Joey costs them an additional $7, so most people with that set up end up paying about an extra $11/mo as compared to someone w/ the older equipment.


I'll stick with my trusty 722.

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#174 OFFLINE   Henry

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 10:57 AM

Please show me the proof that there is lost add revenue and if there is a lose, how much of that is because the networks have said there is going to be a lose. Kind of a self serving don't you think. All companies and individuals are allowed to make money but there is a point were they are to greedy and I think that point has been reached by networks and performers both.


Welcome aboard, Omahabrownei!

All businesses take advantage of market conditions to improve their bottom line – no smoking gun there. If conditions were right, I would expect to pay more for what I’m getting at today’s prices. It’s just the way it is. Dish will eventually charge more to cover for the cost (and perhaps a little extra) of what they have to pay the programmers for content.

I’m OK with that.

If I have to pay a little more for the privilege of zapping those infernal commercials, so be it. I don’t own a Hopper, but I do have a couple of DVRs equipped with Skip buttons, and there is no greater pleasure than being able to select which commercials (if any) I care to watch. Even if there exists a tacit commercial covenant between the networks and me, I opt to selectively honor it. If they go out of business because of it (which I really doubt), there are always cable and premium channels. Besides, I don’t care for the notion of paying for a service that is already making premium profits from advertisers – are you listening, Cable?

I’m further of the thinking that in time all television will be subscription-based and that commercials will be limited to product placement or other forms of embedding. By the time the commercial channels join the game, the cost of subscription will be comparable to today’s satellite service cost. The good news is that we will be rid of the commercial ad model once and for all.
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#175 OFFLINE   tampa8

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 11:15 AM


I’m further of the thinking that in time all television will be subscription-based and that commercials will be limited to product placement or other forms of embedding. By the time the commercial channels join the game, the cost of subscription will be comparable to today’s satellite service cost. The good news is that we will be rid of the commercial ad model once and for all.


That goes along with my post above. Not giving the customer what it wants, AND fighting technology does not work. It might be smart for the networks to move towards something like your model. Take use of the technology, give the customer what it wants, and still make the money. But your idea or another, fighting progress and change when it's what the customer wants just does not work.

#176 OFFLINE   Henry

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 12:27 PM

That goes along with my post above. Not giving the customer what it wants, AND fighting technology does not work. It might be smart for the networks to move towards something like your model. Take use of the technology, give the customer what it wants, and still make the money. But your idea or another, fighting progress and change when it's what the customer wants just does not work.


Agree, but as you know, the commercial networks will fight tooth and nail to preserve the one and only model they have ever had. It's in their blood to defend their model and ignore the likes of HBO and Showtime.

In time I expect they'll be gagged and dragged to a newer model that will contain all of the great elements you mention. There's no way they can fight technology and/or customer damands, but they'll try. Eventually, they'll cave to the pressure only to later claim it was their idea all along.
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#177 OFFLINE   yogi

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:00 PM

How is Gannett going to change it's business model?
It buy's national programming from NBC. Which the majority is paid by commercials.

#178 OFFLINE   inazsully

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:38 PM

Probably not. If you have a second HD TV location the Hopper/Joey setup works nice (single Duo DVR like the 722 to Hopper+Joey is workable). At the moment having OTA vs having PTAT/AutoHop and the third tuner is the decision point.

As setups get more complex the decision becomes more personal ... what are you doing with it.

Jim, I record a lot of stuff to my 722 then transfer some of it to my EHD. Things like concerts and nature shows (Frozen Planet) and series that I want to watch later in their entirety end up on the EHD. Many nights I record three shows at the same time and sometimes would like to record four shows. The ability to record four shows at the same time would be a big deal to me.

#179 OFFLINE   Henry

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 03:07 PM

How is Gannett going to change it's business model?
It buy's national programming from NBC. Which the majority is paid by commercials.


It doesn't need to. Gannett is negotiating on behalf of the broadcaster. If the latter were to change its model, Gannett wouldn't be able to use commercial skipping as a sledge hammer in its negotiations with Dish (who, incidentally pays for the programming and then charges us accordingly ... so it seems to me that we pay as well, yet we have no voice in the negotiations).
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#180 OFFLINE   tampa8

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 03:42 PM

Agree, but as you know, the commercial networks will fight tooth and nail to preserve the one and only model they have ever had. It's in their blood to defend their model and ignore the likes of HBO and Showtime.

In time I expect they'll be gagged and dragged to a newer model that will contain all of the great elements you mention. There's no way they can fight technology and/or customer damands, but they'll try. Eventually, they'll cave to the pressure only to later claim it was their idea all along.


Good points.




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