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C31 vs HR24


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77 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:13 PM

So the C31 sees whatever the Genie (AKA HMC) sees?

Yep.
It's just a remote extension of the Genie.
A.K.A VOS

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#42 OFFLINE   spartanstew

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:18 PM

ahem,
Excuse me for piping in,
But I have a 9.1 surround system in the living room as well as a 5.1 in my bedroom, thank you very much


Not to derail the thread, but along with my 7.2 system in the living room, I have two other 5.1 systems with large screen displays (65" and 60"). Still, none of them are home theaters, just a nice living room, game room, and playroom.

I'm sure Directv can't wait to get their hands on your unit.

 
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#43 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:43 PM

Free as in no monthly lease fee. I have no problem charging for the C31 hardware. Its the monthly fee to use it I disagree with. Its a mirror fee to mirror a tuner you are already paying for...


On the other hand, DirecTV doesn't charge you more per month for a 5 tuner DVR than they do for a 2 tuner DVR, so you weren't really paying for that extra tuner already, were you?

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#44 OFFLINE   Drucifer

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:50 PM

Yep.
It's just a remote extension of the Genie.

How many can play Pandora at the same time?

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#45 OFFLINE   Davenlr

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:02 PM

On the other hand, DirecTV doesn't charge you more per month for a 5 tuner DVR than they do for a 2 tuner DVR, so you weren't really paying for that extra tuner already, were you?


If they did, then charging for the C31 would make more sense. I actually expected the HR34 to be activated with two tuners, and require an addition fee to enable the other three. The fact Tivo released their 4 tuner DVR at the same time, and cable companies did not charge extra probably played into that decision.

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#46 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:35 PM

How many can play Pandora at the same time?

:shrug: Not a feature I use.
A.K.A VOS

#47 OFFLINE   raott

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 05:12 AM

Convert, no. I would wager a bet, however, that as soon as the C31 comes out and is verified to be working correctly, the new customer installs will no longer be a HDDVR and three HD receivers. It will be an HR34 and three C31's, which is theoretically the same tuner count, and monthly subscription cost. It will save DirecTv a LOT of money in the future. Smart move on their part.


Smart move from a cost perspective, but not very thought out if that proves to be true as the HR34 does not have enough tuners to allow for a seamless TV watching experience (ie using double play) have Genie operating and the customer trying to record a show all the while supporting 3 C31s.

In that scenario the customer will have C31s without tuners of their own and a major new feature in Genie pulling one (or even multiple) tuners for its use. So what is the customer left with to watch TV if he's also recording a show?

I see a customer getting frustrated by constantly having to to juggle and ration tuners to make it all work.

The HR34 should have had 8 tuners IMO (or change the silly policy of one HR34 per account).

Edited by raott, 08 October 2012 - 05:32 AM.

SONY KDS-55A3000 and a couple of Vizios; SWM16; HR34 NR; HR22 NR; HR20-700 NR; H23-600 NR; R22 NR

#48 OFFLINE   dielray

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 05:39 AM

Smart move from a cost perspective, but not very thought out if that proves to be true as the HR34 does not have enough tuners to do that, allow for a seamless TV watching experience (ie using double play) have Genie operating and the customer trying to record a show.

In that scenario the customer will have C31s without tuners of their own and a major new feature in Genie pulling one (or even multiple) tuners for its use. So what is the customer left with to watch TV if he's also recording a show?

I see a customer getting frustrated by constantly having to to juggle and ration tuners to make it all work.

The HR34 should have had 8 tuners IMO.


People here tend to be power users. You have to realize that currently most new customers get 1 HD/DVR and HD receivers for their other TVs. Currently, it is very rare for me to install HR34s.

If the national offer becomes 1 HR34 and 3 C31s(which we'll have to wait until the 11th to find out how hard Genie will be pushed) the average customer wins. They get 5 tuners that can record, instead of 2 recordable and 3 live only. They get trick-play on each TV. They can watch a recording on each TV at the same time.
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#49 OFFLINE   raott

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 06:36 AM

People here tend to be power users. You have to realize that currently most new customers get 1 HD/DVR and HD receivers for their other TVs. Currently, it is very rare for me to install HR34s.

If the national offer becomes 1 HR34 and 3 C31s(which we'll have to wait until the 11th to find out how hard Genie will be pushed) the average customer wins. They get 5 tuners that can record, instead of 2 recordable and 3 live only. They get trick-play on each TV. They can watch a recording on each TV at the same time.


A family of 5 with a couple of teenagers and three TVs in the house would hardly be considered "power users". The 5 tuners aren't just for recording, they have to support live TV as well if D* moves to a 3 C31 installation. But I agree that if each TV is being used, the net affect of tuners available for recording /watching live TV would be the same as having an HR2X with 3 receivers (ie 5 total tuners) with the added benefit of being able to pause live TV on the other TVs.

The point I was making is the wildcard is Genie. If that is a major push, there is simply not enough tuners. People will either be unable to use Genie or be aggravated because they constantly have to ration tuners in the house. Especially in the current implementation where Genie seems to take tuners as it pleases to the point it interferes with live TV.
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#50 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 06:59 AM

A family of 5 with a couple of teenagers and three TVs in the house would hardly be considered "power users". The 5 tuners aren't just for recording, they have to support live TV as well if D* moves to a 3 C31 installation. But I agree that if each TV is being used, the net affect of tuners available for recording /watching live TV would be the same as having an HR2X with 3 receivers (ie 5 total tuners) with the added benefit of being able to pause live TV on the other TVs.

The point I was making is the wildcard is Genie. If that is a major push, there is simply not enough tuners. People will either be unable to use Genie or be aggravated because they constantly have to ration tuners in the house. Especially in the current implementation where Genie seems to take tuners as it pleases to the point it interferes with live TV.

I think anyone can find a "what if" case.
U-Verse has customers, but is limited to 3 or 4 channels.
The HR34 & C31 can share a tuner, which is nice, as the commercial for Whole Home DVR becomes a bit more of a reality, as you're not limited to recordings, but can do it with live TV.
Have you ever run out of tuners on the HR34 with a C31?
It pops up a screen where you select which recording to interrupt.
If Genie were "in my way", it would get stopped.
If the "couple of teenagers" end up putting more demand on the system, the customer can add/change them to a DVR.
You can't do this with U-Verse.
A.K.A VOS

#51 OFFLINE   raott

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:21 AM

I think anyone can find a "what if" case.
U-Verse has customers, but is limited to 3 or 4 channels.
The HR34 & C31 can share a tuner, which is nice, as the commercial for Whole Home DVR becomes a bit more of a reality, as you're not limited to recordings, but can do it with live TV.
Have you ever run out of tuners on the HR34 with a C31?
It pops up a screen where you select which recording to interrupt.
If Genie were "in my way", it would get stopped.
If the "couple of teenagers" end up putting more demand on the system, the customer can add/change them to a DVR.
You can't do this with U-Verse.


If I made a post about Uverse and how great it was (which I don't think it is) Uverse would get blasted about its limitation regarding the number of HD channels that can be used.

I've never run out of tuners on the HR34 with a C31 because it has not been released yet and I've never once (been a customer since 1997 and a member here for many, many years) been offered free equipment to test. I would suspect there are some here that have repeatedly been given free equipment to test.

Genie being in the way was the entire point of my initial post. Directv's initiatives are good ones (Genie and the C31), my point, and I was simply thinking out loud, was whether the HR34 had sufficient tuners so that a customer wasn't left with failed expectations when they run out of tuners. IMO, 8 would be a better number (I'm not the only one who has offered that opinion, I've seen a poster who is an installer and ardent Directv supporter offer the same).
SONY KDS-55A3000 and a couple of Vizios; SWM16; HR34 NR; HR22 NR; HR20-700 NR; H23-600 NR; R22 NR

#52 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:48 AM

Genie being in the way was the entire point of my initial post. Directv's initiatives are good ones (Genie and the C31), my point, and I was simply thinking out loud, was whether the HR34 had sufficient tuners so that a customer wasn't left with failed expectations when they run out of tuners. IMO, 8 would be a better number.

"My point" was more that customers adapt to what they have.
I'd guess if there were 8 tuners, there would still be those that didn't have enough.
A "new install" wouldn't have "failed expectations", would it?
If the customer finds they need more, they can add to their setup.
The current HR34 & 3 HD receiver install is using the 8 tuners from the SWiM, so it does make some sense to only have 5 in the HR34.
Move to the HR34 & C31s and there is a option for another DVR.
If I had a couple of teenagers, "I'll tell you", I wouldn't want their playlist being shared. :lol:
A.K.A VOS

#53 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:29 AM

Lets just agree to disagree.


Good advice for everyone.

I too have a C31, and overall it is a great little unit. There are certain situations where I prefer having a DVR as opposed to a C31. There are situations where the C31 is the better solution. There is no single solution that is perfect for every customer.

One thing I will say though, in general the information you get on this web site, on these forums, is going to be as current and accurate as any you will get anyplace, including DirecTV.

#54 OFFLINE   TheRatPatrol

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:32 AM

Smart move from a cost perspective, but not very thought out if that proves to be true as the HR34 does not have enough tuners to allow for a seamless TV watching experience (ie using double play) have Genie operating and the customer trying to record a show all the while supporting 3 C31s.

In that scenario the customer will have C31s without tuners of their own and a major new feature in Genie pulling one (or even multiple) tuners for its use. So what is the customer left with to watch TV if he's also recording a show?

I see a customer getting frustrated by constantly having to to juggle and ration tuners to make it all work.

The HR34 should have had 8 tuners IMO (or change the silly policy of one HR34 per account).

I agree.

An 8 tuner HMC would make more sense if it has to share tuners with the clients. Then you could stream 3-4 live channels while still having tuners left over to record and watch on the main TV. This would also make installs easier, one HMC with clients, taking advantage of the SWiM 8.

Rumor is that there is a new HR44 in the works, but it may only have 3 tuners in it. Could this be a "supplement" to the HR34? 5+3 giving you 8 tuners total, taking advantage of the SWiM 8 and giving you more tuners for the clients?

None of this has been confirmed yet and probably won't be until CES.

#55 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:36 AM

Not to get off topic, but I find it funny that David Bott just recently wrote this article on what a home theater is. Maybe he's right and we need to start using a new term.

http://www.avsforum....s-it-now-anyway

#56 OFFLINE   armophob

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:53 AM

Kind of silly at this point in the game.
It is simply what was coined a while back for a stereo system and a large screen.

#57 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:57 AM

A family of 5 with a couple of teenagers and three TVs in the house would hardly be considered "power users". The 5 tuners aren't just for recording, they have to support live TV as well if D* moves to a 3 C31 installation. But I agree that if each TV is being used, the net affect of tuners available for recording /watching live TV would be the same as having an HR2X with 3 receivers (ie 5 total tuners) with the added benefit of being able to pause live TV on the other TVs.

The point I was making is the wildcard is Genie. If that is a major push, there is simply not enough tuners. People will either be unable to use Genie or be aggravated because they constantly have to ration tuners in the house. Especially in the current implementation where Genie seems to take tuners as it pleases to the point it interferes with live TV.


I guess I just don't understand this...

Today, the "standard" promotion is 1 dual-tuner DVR and 3 HD receivers, giving the customer 5 total tuners, only 2 of which can record, and only 4 of which can be used for live TV (since this is a 4 outlet setup) which leaves one always available for recording.

If the new standard were to become a HR34 and 3 C31s, the customer still has 5 tuners, only four of which can be used for live TV, leaving one for recording at all times, but with the possibility of using more than 2 recording tuners if live TV isn't required at one or more of the C31s.

Since Genie is ALWAYS subordinate to scheduled recordings (and I assume live TV requests) and only records things you don't explicitly ask for, I don't see how it can interfere with the use of the system. If all the tuners are in use, Genie will do nothing. Is this an issue? The customer would be totally unaware that Genie MIGHT have recorded something if a tuner was available.

Seems to me that the hypothetical "standard install" has more net functionality with the HR34/C31 configuration than with the HR2X/H2X configuration. In addition, I am confident the C31 uses less power when idle than a H2X receiver, so you save energy as well.

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#58 OFFLINE   sigma1914

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 12:05 PM

It's funny reading all the backlash about not having live tuners as a negative for a C31 when most of the time posters are constantly saying they never watch commercials or live tv any more. Which is it? ;)
If you stop responding to them or put them on ignore, then eventually they'll go away.

#59 OFFLINE   raott

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 12:29 PM

I guess I just don't understand this...

Today, the "standard" promotion is 1 dual-tuner DVR and 3 HD receivers, giving the customer 5 total tuners, only 2 of which can record, and only 4 of which can be used for live TV (since this is a 4 outlet setup) which leaves one always available for recording.

If the new standard were to become a HR34 and 3 C31s, the customer still has 5 tuners, only four of which can be used for live TV, leaving one for recording at all times, but with the possibility of using more than 2 recording tuners if live TV isn't required at one or more of the C31s.

Since Genie is ALWAYS subordinate to scheduled recordings (and I assume live TV requests) and only records things you don't explicitly ask for, I don't see how it can interfere with the use of the system. If all the tuners are in use, Genie will do nothing. Is this an issue? The customer would be totally unaware that Genie MIGHT have recorded something if a tuner was available.

Seems to me that the hypothetical "standard install" has more net functionality with the HR34/C31 configuration than with the HR2X/H2X configuration. In addition, I am confident the C31 uses less power when idle than a H2X receiver, so you save energy as well.


Most of what you posted I agree with and in fact stated in my prior posts. However, Genie has NOT been shown to be subordinate to live TV, in fact, there are a number of threads that indicate the opposite. Whether this is a bug, due to the lack of feedback from Directv, I suppose we will have to wait for that answer.

My point was, the new flagship has 5 tuners. The C31 install each takes a tuner, now you are down to two. I was simply thinking out loud that, with a new feature that takes one or more tuners to maximize its potential, and an install that takes three tuners, the HR34 may have been better served having more than 5 tuners. The standard install today does not have Genie potentially taking tuners.
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#60 OFFLINE   raott

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 12:34 PM

It's funny reading all the backlash about not having live tuners as a negative for a C31 when most of the time posters are constantly saying they never watch commercials or live tv any more. Which is it? ;)


I don't see backlash about the lack of tuner in a C31. I think they are a great idea. Personally, I watch live TV often, especially sports and news. I think the average user likely watches more live TV than recorded material. But, it was actually a former mod that once posted that a DVR was a "recorder" putting the word "recorder" in great big huge capital letters, way back when many people were complaining about the lack of DLBs, insinuating that those who watched live TV were actually doing things wrong.
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