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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Recording 1080! programs in 720p


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28 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   johnchart

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:18 AM

Installed new Panny 50U50 50" plasma recently & am using my HD 24-100 to record programs. Some of the prime time programs wind up recorded in 720p & some in 1080i. I do have the 24-100 set to record all resolutions.

Anyone else had this problem? Advice appreciated.

John

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#2 OFFLINE   SPACEMAKER

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:20 AM

Installed new Panny 50U50 50" plasma recently & am using my HD 24-100 to record programs. Some of the prime time programs wind up recorded in 720p & some in 1080i. I do have the 24-100 set to record all resolutions.

Anyone else had this problem? Advice appreciated.

John


It will record in the same format in which it was broadcast.

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#3 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:46 AM

Installed new Panny 50U50 50" plasma recently & am using my HD 24-100 to record programs. Some of the prime time programs wind up recorded in 720p & some in 1080i. I do have the 24-100 set to record all resolutions.

Anyone else had this problem? Advice appreciated.

John


It will record in the same format in which it was broadcast.

It will only record in the resolution it is broadcast in.

You can change the playback resolution if you want, by turning native off and manually selecting the resolution you want. The receiver will stay on the resolution until you change it.
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#4 OFFLINE   Clemsole

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:47 AM

Turn off all resolutions except 1080i, then all programs that are broadcast in 780 or lower will be upgraded to 1080i and your tv will not have to change it's resolution.

#5 ONLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:53 AM

John,
I have just 84 channels in my Favorite ( all are HD as I do not watch SD ).
Of those more than 20 are 720p format.

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#6 OFFLINE   P Smith

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:02 AM

Installed new Panny 50U50 50" plasma recently & am using my HD 24-100 to record programs. Some of the prime time programs wind up recorded in 720p & some in 1080i. I do have the 24-100 set to record all resolutions.

Anyone else had this problem? Advice appreciated.

John


Is it a problem ?

#7 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:34 AM

Turn off all resolutions except 1080i, then all programs that are broadcast in 780 or lower will be upgraded to 1080i and your tv will not have to change it's resolution.


Not upgraded, really, but upscaled! Tiny point, but perhaps worth mentioning.

Some TVs upscale better than some receivers and vice-versa, so you might experiment with one vs. the other. In my case, there's no discernible difference.
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#8 ONLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:51 AM

Not upgraded, really, but upscaled! Tiny point, but perhaps worth mentioning.

Some TVs upscale better than some receivers and vice-versa, so you might experiment with one vs. the other. In my case, there's no discernible difference.


I read a lengthy thread on this subject in the other forum.
One made the argument that since the 720p was already 60 FPS that all the TV had to do was to enlarge the pixels to fill the screen and no other manipulation was involved. If you let the receiver send a 720p that has been converted to 1080i in place of the 720p then it has been converted to interlaced mode and 30 FPS and then the TV had to convert it back to Progressive mode and 60 FPS. Lots of manipulation. There was a big dispute about FPS and Hz, etc.

For those reasons I run my sets on the Native ON and chose the 720p and 1080i only resolutions. I can live with the one more second time to change the resolution signal in the DVR.

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#9 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:08 AM

I read a lengthy thread on this subject in the other forum.
One made the argument that since the 720p was already 60 FPS that all the TV had to do was to enlarge the pixels to fill the screen and no other manipulation was involved. If you let the receiver send a 720p that has been converted to 1080i in place of the 720p then it has been converted to interlaced mode and 30 FPS and then the TV had to convert it back to Progressive mode and 60 FPS. Lots of manipulation. There was a big dispute about FPS and Hz, etc.

For those reasons I run my sets on the Native ON and chose the 720p and 1080i only resolutions. I can live with the one more second time to change the resolution signal in the DVR.

There isn't a one size fits all here, and ever since there was a 720p & 1080i choice, it has been debated endlessly.
I use native, and all res selected because one of my TVs handles scaling better. It's most noticeable with SD.
My other TV isn't as good and so I don't use native and have it fixed on 720p, as it's the closest match to the display's native resolution.

All flat panels covert to progressive, making a lot of this moot.
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#10 ONLINE   harsh

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:19 AM

One made the argument that since the 720p was already 60 FPS that all the TV had to do was to enlarge the pixels to fill the screen and no other manipulation was involved.

That's a pretty primative (and mostly inaccurate) argument. Scaling is scaling whether it is up or down. Whether you take nine pixels to approximate four or four to approximate nine doesn't really matter. "Motion smoothing" is almost always involved at some level.

The real issue is that there are probably fewer than two dozen models of LCD TV (most of them were high-end Sonys) all tolled that use a true 720 line matrix. Most featured a 1366x768 matrix or some other combination that wasn't 1280x720.

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#11 ONLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:27 AM

The real issue is that there are probably fewer than two dozen models of LCD TV (most of them were high-end Sonys) all tolled that use a true 720 line matrix. Most featured a 1366x768 matrix or some other combination that wasn't 1280x720.

My Samsung LN46A650 is 1280 X 720 when it is fed a 720p signal.
The TV is a true 1080p and is capable of the 1080p/24 signals.

Edited by jimmie57, 08 October 2012 - 10:43 AM.
Clarified statement of previously written.

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#12 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:30 AM

My Samsung LN46A650 is 1280 X 720.

If I had that TV, I'd have only 720p selected as a resolution and native off.
The receiver has access to vector data to scale 1080i better than the TV, which doesn't have the access.
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#13 ONLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:41 AM

If I had that TV, I'd have only 720p selected as a resolution and native off.
The receiver has access to vector data to scale 1080i better than the TV, which doesn't have the access.


Correction: I mis stated previously.
When the DTV receiver sends the signal it says 1280 X 720. The TV is a true 1080p TV.
Some 720p TVs have a 1366 x 768 resolution when they are in PC mode, mine is 1280 X 720.

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#14 ONLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:46 AM

There isn't a one size fits all here, and ever since there was a 720p & 1080i choice, it has been debated endlessly.
I use native, and all res selected because one of my TVs handles scaling better. It's most noticeable with SD.
My other TV isn't as good and so I don't use native and have it fixed on 720p, as it's the closest match to the display's native resolution.

All flat panels covert to progressive, making a lot of this moot.


Totally agree. I have written before that each situation is different depending on what the person doing the settings believes looks better to them. It is one of those things that is truely a personal choice and does not make a lot of difference either way.

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#15 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:48 AM

Some 720p TVs have a 1366 x 768 resolution when they are in PC mode, mine is 1280 X 720.

The display have a native resolution, so I hope you're not saying yours is 1366 x 768 in "PC mode", and 1280 x 720 in TV mode. If this really was the case, the TV mode would be picture framed.
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#16 ONLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:53 AM

The display have a native resolution, so I hope you're not saying yours is 1366 x 768 in "PC mode", and 1280 x 720 in TV mode. If this really was the case, the TV mode would be picture framed.


My TVs native resolution is 1920 x 1080.

I can choose the 1280 x 720 resolution when hooked up to a PC or the 1920 x 1080.

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#17 OFFLINE   CCarncross

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:56 AM

Not 100% sure, but I believe that model is a 1920x1080 panel. Its not 100% but typically I prefer to let the tv do the scaling, as I also have two 1080 displays in my house and have my dvrs set to native on and both 720 and 1080 selected, but as others have stated its really what each individual prefers. But if you are watching a channel that is broadcast in 720p, if you have both the above settings, some will be in 720 and other will be in 1080. ABC and FOX are 720, CBS, and NBC are 1080, all ESPN stations are all 720 I think, its probably about 75% 1080/25% 720 station mix if I had to take a guess.

#18 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:33 AM

There isn't a one size fits all here, and ever since there was a 720p & 1080i choice, it has been debated endlessly...


So true...we feed our Panasonic Plasma native resolutions, the rest of the TVs get 1080i from the receiver, simply because we think that works best for us.

Field rate = the number of times per second the display "refreshes," or illuminates, the screen (many displays refresh the same image multiple times)
Frame rate = the number of unique images displayed per second.

Nearly all video original content is shot at 30 frames per second, while film original content is almost always 24 frames per second.

IMHO, avoiding 3:2 pulldown (used to convert film to video) is far more important to final image quality than the pixel matrix used to convert to digital (at least at the screen sizes and viewing distances used in the vast majority of homes). That's why 1080p (which in most cases is 24 frames per second) is a better way to watch movies than 1080i (which uses 3:2 pulldown to convert 24fps film into 30fps video).

The rest of the HD resolution controversy is interesting to videophiles, but makes very little difference to most people's enjoyment of their TV viewing experience.

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#19 ONLINE   jimmie57

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 12:03 PM

From the Wikipedia site:
When broadcast at 60[note 1] frames per second, 720p features the highest temporal (motion) resolution possible under the ATSC and DVB standards.
note 1 mentioned above:
^ It is often actually broadcast at 60/1.001 frame/s, which is approximately 59.94.

I think this is the reason the ESPN channels use the 720p.

Link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/720p

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#20 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 12:23 PM

...I think this is the reason the ESPN channels use the 720p.

Link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/720p


Yup...a lot of people think 720p was chosen by sports channels because of interlace registration issues. It is, sort of indirectly, because because of interlace versus progressive, but more because of what that means about frame rate.

This is another aspect of what I was talking about above, in relation to film original content. Frame rate is more important than the pixel matrix.

Given the viewing conditions in most homes, it is hard to believe that many people can see a difference between 1080x1920 and 720x1280. But follow a football down field, or hockey puck across the ice, and the difference between 30fps and 60fps becomes pretty apparent. Likewise, pan across a crowd in a movie and the difference between a 24fps display and 3:2 pulldown 30fps is also quite visible.

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