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Genie "The Good Stuff" Discussion


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138 replies to this topic

#61 OFFLINE   jangell2

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 01:40 PM

There is no optical out on the HR34. Not sure where your seeing that but its wrong. And you will never see a unit from DIRECTV these days that's optical out and only stereo.

Just going by DTV specs. Click on the link and it's bottom right. http://www.directv.c.../genie_receiver
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#62 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 01:49 PM

some folks would disagree with this, and believe an optical signal is always the best

TOSLINK is a thirty year old technology. In most cases the audio quality should be nearly identical. They're both digital.

Additionally, if you need to a length longer than 15' TOSLINK is not recommended. The spec limit is 10m but the usual practical limit is 5-6m.

I know a few audiophiles who swear by TOSLINK for short runs.

I guess, depending on how you want to use it you could easily argue both sides.

Personally, I prefer digital coax. The cables are cheaper. :D

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#63 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 01:59 PM

Just going by DTV specs. Click on the link and it's bottom right. http://www.directv.c.../genie_receiver

If you're referring to S/PDIF, it's a spec that can be either TOSLINK, or coax (as well as STP and BNC). The only listed digital audio I see listed is coax.

You can see in the First Looks (Link) the HR34 does not have an optical connection. I have a TOSLINK/HDMI switch and have to use a coax to optical adapter from my HR34.

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#64 OFFLINE   TheRatPatrol

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 02:34 PM

TOSLINK is a thirty year old technology.

Really? I don't remember Toslink outputs on any of my AV equipment 20-30 years ago. I'm not doubting you, but I didn't think it was that old.

#65 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 03:13 PM

Really? I don't remember Toslink outputs on any of my AV equipment 20-30 years ago. I'm not doubting you, but I didn't think it was that old.

Toshiba released TOSLINK in 1983 to connect it's CD players to it's receivers. It used the S/PDIF optical connector. S/PDIF was a new spec from Sony & Philips that was introduced in 1980.

IIRC, TOSLINK is short for Toshiba Link but don't quote me on that. As S/PDIF became the industry wide standard through the 80's TOSLINK became more of generic term to the fiber optic audio cable.

This also makes all the single cable digital audio 30 years old.

Mike

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#66 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 03:17 PM

Just going by DTV specs. Click on the link and it's bottom right. http://www.directv.c.../genie_receiver


Um, I just read that page, and under specs it says its coax digital out. No mention of Optical anywhere. And no where does it say its stereo only. It does say you can get stereo out of l/r analogue outs or the coax digital out though. Very different things than the way you are reading it.

#67 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 03:20 PM

some folks would disagree with this, and believe an optical signal is always the best


Yeah, but the truth is, that optical outs require more conversion than coax digital outs.... Unless you have one heck of a setup, you won't hear the difference. NAND I mean 10k and up audio system. Or your using the wolds worst digital coaxial audio cable...

#68 OFFLINE   harperhometheater

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 05:25 PM

I helped design the high end TAW DVD player over 10 years ago and the digital coax is definitely the better connection, or at least capable of being that anyway. The 2 main things we did to make it "high end" were adding an SDI Video output for connection to our TAW Rock+ Award Winning video scaler/ processor and the addition of a high speed, high bandwidth digital coax audio out (this is before HDMI, etc.). As an example today I think you can look at the Denon HDLink. I remember asking our owner/engineer the difference and he explained that the coax is more "pure" and the optical is derived from the coax signal, in other words the electrical coax signal is converted into light pulses for the optical cable and the only way he could get that performance, speed, bandwidth, etc. was to use coax, as TOSLINK optical wasn't able to handle it.
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#69 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 05:41 PM

The specs on DTV say there is an optical, but it's stereo only.

BTW, do any HDMI cables come with this DVR and if so, are the the latest 3D compatible cables?


There's no optical on the HR34.

http://hr20.dbstalk.... First Look.pdf
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#70 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 05:43 PM

some folks would disagree with this, and believe an optical signal is always the best


Disagree with the fact that it doesn't have Optical? They can disagree all they want but as soon as they look at the back of one they'll see they are wrong.

As far as quality of signal they are nearly identical. What makes coax better is 1. it's better over longer runs and 2. it's not as fragile as optical.
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#71 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 05:44 PM

Just going by DTV specs. Click on the link and it's bottom right. http://www.directv.c.../genie_receiver


You may want to re-read that link. Nowhere does it mention optical, only coax.
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#72 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 07:06 PM

I helped design the high end TAW DVD player over 10 years ago and the digital coax is definitely the better connection, or at least capable of being that anyway. The 2 main things we did to make it "high end" were adding an SDI Video output for connection to our TAW Rock+ Award Winning video scaler/ processor and the addition of a high speed, high bandwidth digital coax audio out (this is before HDMI, etc.). As an example today I think you can look at the Denon HDLink. I remember asking our owner/engineer the difference and he explained that the coax is more "pure" and the optical is derived from the coax signal, in other words the electrical coax signal is converted into light pulses for the optical cable and the only way he could get that performance, speed, bandwidth, etc. was to use coax, as TOSLINK optical wasn't able to handle it.

Did the choice to use coax over TOSLINK have anything to do with jitter?

Mike

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Since it costs 2.4¢ to produce a penny, my 2¢ worth is really 4.8¢ worth.  That 4.8¢ is my own and not the 4.8¢ of DIRECTV, Dish, or anyone else for that matter.


#73 OFFLINE   jangell2

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 09:29 PM

Um, I just read that page, and under specs it says its coax digital out. No mention of Optical anywhere. And no where does it say its stereo only. It does say you can get stereo out of l/r analogue outs or the coax digital out though. Very different things than the way you are reading it.


Here's the quote:

Audio Outputs
1 Digital (coaxial),
1 Stereo (L/R, RCA), 1 S/PDIF
(COAX)


You guys have the machine and I believe you when you say no optical, but the DTV specs sure confuse me. I thought S/PDIF was optical but they qualify it with (COAX) so it's not optical?

And yes, I read that the first time to be Stereo for everything on that line, but see now that's not what they intended.
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#74 OFFLINE   Mike Bertelson

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 09:44 PM

Here's the quote:


You guys have the machine and I believe you when you say no optical, but the DTV specs sure confuse me. I thought S/PDIF was optical but they qualify it with (COAX) so it's not optical?

And yes, I read that the first time to be Stereo for everything on that line, but see now that's not what they intended.

As I stated earlier, (link) S/PDIF is a spec that involves multiple connectors including TOSLINK and coax. ;)

Mike

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#75 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 10:03 PM

Here's the quote:


Audio Outputs
1 Digital (coaxial),
1 Stereo (L/R, RCA), 1 S/PDIF
(COAX)


You guys have the machine and I believe you when you say no optical, but the DTV specs sure confuse me. I thought S/PDIF was optical but they qualify it with (COAX) so it's not optical?

And yes, I read that the first time to be Stereo for everything on that line, but see now that's not what they intended.


Yeah, that's what it says alright but nowhere does it say optical. Read carefully, it says coax twice.
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#76 OFFLINE   harperhometheater

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:01 AM

Did the choice to use coax over TOSLINK have anything to do with jitter?

Mike


Yes that too, here's the reasons why we did:

"TOSLINK has a couple of drawbacks that must be acknowledged and understood to maximize performance, however. First, the implementation of TOSLINK requires a change in format from an electrical to an optical medium. No such change, including similar changes from digital-to-analog or from analog-to-digital, is without cost. In the case of transforming the electrical data stream to an optical signal for use with a TOSLINK interconnect you will increase levels of both noise and distortion within the system. This decrease in fidelity may be especially pronounced with wide-bandwidth multi-channel signals.

A related drawback of the TOSLINK scheme is its tendency towards restricted bandwidth. Truncated bandwidth in an optical connection can cause signal interpolation and/or jitter, and thus compromise the sound. Selecting a high quality interconnect with a minimum 10MHz bandwidth ensures maximum compatibility with multi-channel sources such as a DTS-encrypted DVD...."

"...From the earliest days of compact disc to today many audio connoisseurs have considered the coaxial S/PDIF interconnect audibly superior to the optical TOSLINK format. Improvements in optical conductors have somewhat evened the playing field, but if your connection needs to be more than twenty feet or so in length you must consider the coaxial solution..."

From here: http://www.audioholi...l-interconnects

Edited by harperhometheater, 25 November 2012 - 12:06 AM.

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#77 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:57 AM

Here's the quote:

You guys have the machine and I believe you when you say no optical, but the DTV specs sure confuse me. I thought S/PDIF was optical but they qualify it with (COAX) so it's not optical?

And yes, I read that the first time to be Stereo for everything on that line, but see now that's not what they intended.


As mike points out, you are confusing a standard of s/pdif with a connection method. They are not the same. The funniest part about that to me, is in all the years I sold av receivers, I don't ever recall anyone pushing toslink or optical connections as s/pdif. They simply called it optical for the most part. Coax was the only one usually referred to as s/pdif and that was generally because they didn't want people to equate a digital coax connection with coax rf connections used for antenna cables and such.

#78 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 02:20 AM

As mike points out, you are confusing a standard of s/pdif with a connection method. They are not the same. The funniest part about that to me, is in all the years I sold av receivers, I don't ever recall anyone pushing toslink or optical connections as s/pdif. They simply called it optical for the most part. Coax was the only one usually referred to as s/pdif and that was generally because they didn't want people to equate a digital coax connection with coax rf connections used for antenna cables and such.


Back in the 90's, and maybe early 2000's, the coax cables were marketed as S/PDIF cables. At the time I was working in Musical Instrument retail and that's how they were sold "S/PDIF Cables". It was entertaining to listen to the Pro Audio guys call them "SpahDiff" cables. lol
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#79 OFFLINE   jangell2

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 10:46 AM

Yeah, that's what it says alright but nowhere does it say optical. Read carefully, it says coax twice.

My problem was I thought s/pdif meant optical, period. I know different now. Thanks for the education, I'm a tiny bit smarter now. :)
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#80 OFFLINE   jangell2

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:10 PM

The HR34 was installed today and the tech took a long time to get it hooked with a signal. He installed a new LNB(?) on the dish and had to get into the attic because there was a junction box causing a problem in there.

Finally got it hooked up and since the tech left I noticed two problems. I kept getting the "Searching for...771" message over a perfectly good picture. It would stay there for several minutes and go away. One of the messages had a letter at the end of the number, forget what it was. But it's happened 3-4 times. Called DTV and they said to make sure connections were tight and reboot if that didn't fix it. Tightening didn't help so I've rebooted just a few moments ago. We'll see if that fixed it.

Another problem was that double wouldn't activate until after the reboot than it started working.

How long before the guide fills in. Right now there are big blanks in tonights schedule.
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