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Genie "The Good Stuff" Discussion


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138 replies to this topic

#76 OFFLINE   harperhometheater

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:01 AM

Did the choice to use coax over TOSLINK have anything to do with jitter?

Mike


Yes that too, here's the reasons why we did:

"TOSLINK has a couple of drawbacks that must be acknowledged and understood to maximize performance, however. First, the implementation of TOSLINK requires a change in format from an electrical to an optical medium. No such change, including similar changes from digital-to-analog or from analog-to-digital, is without cost. In the case of transforming the electrical data stream to an optical signal for use with a TOSLINK interconnect you will increase levels of both noise and distortion within the system. This decrease in fidelity may be especially pronounced with wide-bandwidth multi-channel signals.

A related drawback of the TOSLINK scheme is its tendency towards restricted bandwidth. Truncated bandwidth in an optical connection can cause signal interpolation and/or jitter, and thus compromise the sound. Selecting a high quality interconnect with a minimum 10MHz bandwidth ensures maximum compatibility with multi-channel sources such as a DTS-encrypted DVD...."

"...From the earliest days of compact disc to today many audio connoisseurs have considered the coaxial S/PDIF interconnect audibly superior to the optical TOSLINK format. Improvements in optical conductors have somewhat evened the playing field, but if your connection needs to be more than twenty feet or so in length you must consider the coaxial solution..."

From here: http://www.audioholi...l-interconnects

Edited by harperhometheater, 25 November 2012 - 12:06 AM.

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#77 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:57 AM

Here's the quote:

You guys have the machine and I believe you when you say no optical, but the DTV specs sure confuse me. I thought S/PDIF was optical but they qualify it with (COAX) so it's not optical?

And yes, I read that the first time to be Stereo for everything on that line, but see now that's not what they intended.


As mike points out, you are confusing a standard of s/pdif with a connection method. They are not the same. The funniest part about that to me, is in all the years I sold av receivers, I don't ever recall anyone pushing toslink or optical connections as s/pdif. They simply called it optical for the most part. Coax was the only one usually referred to as s/pdif and that was generally because they didn't want people to equate a digital coax connection with coax rf connections used for antenna cables and such.

#78 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 02:20 AM

As mike points out, you are confusing a standard of s/pdif with a connection method. They are not the same. The funniest part about that to me, is in all the years I sold av receivers, I don't ever recall anyone pushing toslink or optical connections as s/pdif. They simply called it optical for the most part. Coax was the only one usually referred to as s/pdif and that was generally because they didn't want people to equate a digital coax connection with coax rf connections used for antenna cables and such.


Back in the 90's, and maybe early 2000's, the coax cables were marketed as S/PDIF cables. At the time I was working in Musical Instrument retail and that's how they were sold "S/PDIF Cables". It was entertaining to listen to the Pro Audio guys call them "SpahDiff" cables. lol
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#79 OFFLINE   jangell2

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 10:46 AM

Yeah, that's what it says alright but nowhere does it say optical. Read carefully, it says coax twice.

My problem was I thought s/pdif meant optical, period. I know different now. Thanks for the education, I'm a tiny bit smarter now. :)
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#80 OFFLINE   jangell2

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:10 PM

The HR34 was installed today and the tech took a long time to get it hooked with a signal. He installed a new LNB(?) on the dish and had to get into the attic because there was a junction box causing a problem in there.

Finally got it hooked up and since the tech left I noticed two problems. I kept getting the "Searching for...771" message over a perfectly good picture. It would stay there for several minutes and go away. One of the messages had a letter at the end of the number, forget what it was. But it's happened 3-4 times. Called DTV and they said to make sure connections were tight and reboot if that didn't fix it. Tightening didn't help so I've rebooted just a few moments ago. We'll see if that fixed it.

Another problem was that double wouldn't activate until after the reboot than it started working.

How long before the guide fills in. Right now there are big blanks in tonights schedule.
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#81 OFFLINE   jangell2

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:22 PM

Ok, another question which arrises out of the remote for the HR34 appearing to be identical to the one for my HR20. I have kept the HR20 because I have an external HD with a bunch of shows we want to watch.

Are the two remotes sending identical signals which will be received by to DVR's or are they sending different signals? I hope it's the latter.

Once I get everything settled in I plan on adding the HR34 to my Harmony 880 up for the HR34. I sure don't want the HR34 signals to be doing something to the HR20.
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#82 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:32 PM

You should definitely give it time to pull in the full Guide!

Those remotes are the same signal, but there are ways to get around this other than just wide separation of the boxes. I've done this only once, so am not the guy to instruct you on this.
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#83 OFFLINE   jangell2

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:33 PM

Well, I've proven one thing: when I used the 880 programmed for the HR20, and press Playlist, up comes the playlist one HR34. That's got me worried.
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#84 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:40 PM

Well, I've proven one thing: when I used the 880 programmed for the HR20, and press Playlist, up comes the playlist one HR34. That's got me worried.


You'll need to either set one to use RF or set one to use an alternate IR codebase.
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#85 OFFLINE   jangell2

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:43 PM

You'll need to either set one to use RF or set one to use an alternate IR codebase.

How is that done? I wonder if the Harmony 880 can do RF?
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#86 OFFLINE   jangell2

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:45 PM

Here's another oddity that occurred after (of course) the tech left. You know those radio, "this is a test, in case of an emergent..." things that you hear on the radio from time to time? I got one on the HR34 while I was tuned to HBO.

It took over the screen and the audio and made reference to the Los Angeles county sherif, I think it was. Obviously nothing that applied to Arkansas. Anyone else run into this?
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#87 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:50 PM

How is that done? I wonder if the Harmony 880 can do RF?


No, the Harmony 880 can't do RF.

In a nutshell what you need to do is cover the IR port of one of the units then switch to the other and set it up to use the "AV1" or "AV2" code setup. You'll then have to program your Harmony 880 using the learning feature.
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#88 OFFLINE   jangell2

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:17 PM

No, the Harmony 880 can't do RF.

In a nutshell what you need to do is cover the IR port of one of the units then switch to the other and set it up to use the "AV1" or "AV2" code setup. You'll then have to program your Harmony 880 using the learning feature.

Does the covered IR port remain covered permanently? I'm thinking not, right?

I might mosey on over to the logitech forums and see if they've got both code bases. If I could load the harmony with separate code bases for each DVR, that would work, wouldn't it? If they've got the code bases, that is.
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#89 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:06 PM

Your HR20 and your HR34 are both capable of operating on any one of several IR codes, or on RF.

Given your limited use of the HR20 now, I would simply change it to rf mode and use the DirecTV remote to operate it. That's the easiest solution. Also, if you activate whole-home service, you can watch all the recordings from the HR on your 34, and never have to do anything with regard to controlling the HR20. Or change it to another IR code, but again just use the DirecTV remote for the HR20 and you don't have to hassle with changing/adding to the Harmony.

#90 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:36 PM

Does the covered IR port remain covered permanently? I'm thinking not, right?

I might mosey on over to the logitech forums and see if they've got both code bases. If I could load the harmony with separate code bases for each DVR, that would work, wouldn't it? If they've got the code bases, that is.


No, you only cover it while you program the other.

Way back when Logitech would let their users submit entries to their database. At that time I provided the alternate codebases and they were available to everyone. Lately logitech has only provided default remote codes. You'll have to "learn" the other codebase. It takes all of 5 minutes.
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#91 OFFLINE   RunnerFL

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:37 PM

Given your limited use of the HR20 now, I would simply change it to rf mode and use the DirecTV remote to operate it. That's the easiest solution.


I agree with this suggestion.
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#92 OFFLINE   jangell2

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:50 PM

Your HR20 and your HR34 are both capable of operating on any one of several IR codes, or on RF.

Given your limited use of the HR20 now, I would simply change it to rf mode and use the DirecTV remote to operate it. That's the easiest solution. Also, if you activate whole-home service, you can watch all the recordings from the HR on your 34, and never have to do anything with regard to controlling the HR20. Or change it to another IR code, but again just use the DirecTV remote for the HR20 and you don't have to hassle with changing/adding to the Harmony.

I didn't know the HR20 and remote could do RF. I do like this idea the best.
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#93 OFFLINE   Sandra

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:42 AM

So does anyone know approximately how many hours of HD recordings the hard drive will hold?

Also, if you are using PIP (a biggie for me...I'm a huge sports fan!), is it easy to toggle back and forth, making the 'little picture' large, and vice versa?

Thanks!


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#94 OFFLINE   harperhometheater

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:21 AM

.....Also, if you are using PIP (a biggie for me...I'm a huge sports fan!), is it easy to toggle back and forth, making the 'little picture' large, and vice versa?

Thanks!

Sandra


Yes once you're in PiP it's easy, just toggle it by hitting the down arrow. This is also how you toggle the double play feature.
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#95 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:30 AM

So does anyone know approximately how many hours of HD recordings the hard drive will hold?

I've got 80 hours of HD on mine right now, with 55% free, so that works out to about 177 hours. Almost half of my HD is MPEG-2 OTA, tho, so I'll bet 100% MPEG-4 is closer to 200 hours.
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#96 OFFLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 01:32 AM

I've got 80 hours of HD on mine right now, with 55% free, so that works out to about 177 hours. Almost half of my HD is MPEG-2 OTA, tho, so I'll bet 100% MPEG-4 is closer to 200 hours.


I think they say up to 200 in hd mpeg4 don't they?

Of course, if you add an esata drive, that could double, triple or more... :)

#97 OFFLINE   jangell2

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:44 AM

Your HR20 and your HR34 are both capable of operating on any one of several IR codes, or on RF.

Given your limited use of the HR20 now, I would simply change it to rf mode and use the DirecTV remote to operate it. That's the easiest solution. Also, if you activate whole-home service, you can watch all the recordings from the HR on your 34, and never have to do anything with regard to controlling the HR20. Or change it to another IR code, but again just use the DirecTV remote for the HR20 and you don't have to hassle with changing/adding to the Harmony.


I went through the procedure of switching to RF on the HR20 but it doesn't work. The receiver doesn't respond to the remote at all. This may be because there's no RF antenna attached. I see a coaxial input on the back for RF. Would a set of rabbit ears, or one of those cheapie antennas that come in the box with a TV work?

Speaking of coaxial, I went shopping for a 10 foot digital coaxial cable yesterday. The 6 footer I have just barely reaches and I like to have room to spare, otherwise it's hard to pull out stuff to work on it. Apparently retailers in Little Rock believe we don't need anything longer the 6 feet, there isn't a cable longer than that.

More than once I was shown a regular coaxial cable, they often didn't realize there was such a thing as digital coax. I went to Home Depot, BB, and two Radio Shacks.

Sheesh!
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#98 OFFLINE   mjwagner

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:20 AM

Local stores such as BB are notorious for selling incredibly overpriced cables. Even their "cheap" cables will be WAY overpriced. Unless you need it immediately you are much better of getting them on-line at Amazon, Monoprice, or Blue Jeans cable. You can get 10ft digital coaxial cables at Amazon for around $2....
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#99 OFFLINE   TMan

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:21 AM

Speaking of coaxial, I went shopping for a 10 foot digital coaxial cable yesterday. The 6 footer I have just barely reaches and I like to have room to spare, otherwise it's hard to pull out stuff to work on it. Apparently retailers in Little Rock believe we don't need anything longer the 6 feet, there isn't a cable longer than that.

More than once I was shown a regular coaxial cable, they often didn't realize there was such a thing as digital coax. I went to Home Depot, BB, and two Radio Shacks.


That's because no one would buy anything over six feet at the prices they'd charge for such a cable in a big box store. :D

Since you have a cable that is working in the meantime, and thus could tolerate a few days' shipping time, consider buying one of ideal length from Monoprice. Some are even made of RG6, and ten-footers are still under $5. Non-RG6 less than half that.
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#100 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:49 AM

What makes a coaxial cable "digital" or not? Is it the price, or is there really something in the specs?
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