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4th Gen iPad?


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#26 OFFLINE   dpeters11

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 10:03 AM

Not from my POV. I can't even figure out why anyone would buy books when you can get them from a library at no cost. Many years ago I began to wonder how book stores stayed in business.
Rich


Not everyone has a great library system, a book may not be available, or too many requests and not enough copies. Sure, there's Interlibrary loan, but that doesn't solve everything. Plus there's the fact that depending on how much time you have, you might end up taking more than the two weeks to read a book. Can't renew if someone requested it.

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#27 OFFLINE   The Merg

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 10:59 AM

Not from my POV. I can't even figure out why anyone would buy books when you can get them from a library at no cost. Many years ago I began to wonder how book stores stayed in business.


Well, when you go on vacation and only need to carry along an ebook reader for the 6 books you plan on reading as opposed to lugging around 6 books, that would be why...

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#28 OFFLINE   billsharpe

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 11:15 AM

I was interested in the iPad Mini but expected a price point under $300. I'll take a closer look at the Google Nexus.

Currently I read e-books from the library on an iPod Touch. Works very well on a crowded economy airline seat. I'd prefer a 7+ inch screen, though.
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#29 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 12:35 PM

Not from my POV. I can't even figure out why anyone would buy books when you can get them from a library at no cost. Many years ago I began to wonder how book stores stayed in business.

Obviously iLemmings (all due respect to the members who use Apple equipment, I'm not aiming at anyone on the forum) will buy anything with an Apple on the back.

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You're talking apples vs oranges, though.

I could make the same argument over almost anything that isn't a requirement for life (food, air, water).

For that matter... why do people buy water when it is free all around you?

Why do you need a car? You can walk or use public transportation.

Why do you need a computer? You can mail letters and packages, talk to people in person, play board/card games, and write with a pen and paper!

And so forth...

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#30 ONLINE   dennisj00

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 01:58 PM

Or buy bottled water that's priced higher than gasoline and may not be as good as your own tap water!

Or buy a cup of coffee that's priced higher than the gallon of gas that it took to go get the cup of coffee that's mostly milk and sugar!

The list is probably endless in today's economy -- recession indeed!!

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#31 OFFLINE   naijai

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 06:29 PM

I was interested in the iPad Mini but expected a price point under $300. I'll take a closer look at the Google Nexus.

Currently I read e-books from the library on an iPod Touch. Works very well on a crowded economy airline seat. I'd prefer a 7+ inch screen, though.


A price point under $300 would have taken a bigger bite out of Amazon and others share of the 7" market but the $329 will still take a bite out of it because it's easier for most to get their kids, add them to existing accounts or it's just another iDevice that people can use.

(I do have a iPad 3 which wil be replaced by the surface pro)

Edited by naijai, 24 October 2012 - 06:50 PM.

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#32 OFFLINE   jdskycaster

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 08:14 PM

The fact that the refresh of the 10" came completely as a surprise and without weeks of speculation and rumor would lead me to believe they are more than just a bit concerned that the competition is getting serious in the tablet space.

The price on the mini is just plain stupid though. This has to be pushing the limits of what even the most die-hard apple fans will be willing to stomach. Very happy that I dumped my Gen 1's last month as they would be nearly worthless now with Gen 4's coming so quickly to market.

#33 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 09:23 PM

What bench mark of sales of the mini would you accept as showing that the pricing is not, like, totally stupid? 1 Million? 2? 5?
What?
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#34 OFFLINE   jdskycaster

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 09:54 PM

I said the price is stupid, which I believe it is. I will reserve comment wrt the intelligence level of the 1,2 or 5 million that will still purchase it.

#35 OFFLINE   djlong

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 04:52 AM

Not from my POV. I can't even figure out why anyone would buy books when you can get them from a library at no cost. Many years ago I began to wonder how book stores stayed in business.


Why would people buy DVDs when they could just watch the movie on HBO (when available)?

You can ask the same question of many things. Some people just plaing like to own something.

One reason I have a Kindle Fire (having previously had a Kindle 2 and Kindle DX) is that I can get virtually any book I want, (almost) any time I want. Lately there's been the complication of the publishing companies trying to inflate prices, but that's another issue. I won't pay $15 for an e-book just as I won't pay $25 for a hardcover.

A friend of mine recommended a book to me last week. I looked it up and had it on my Kindle in less than 3 minutes. It's now synched to my phone as well and I can read whenever I have a few minutes. In addition, I don't have to lug several books around when travelling.

I always have my library with me - so when my trip to the mechanic for a car inspection suddenly turns into a couple of hours to replace brakes and some other parts, I have reading material. I even have newspapers and magazines delivered to my shirt pocket.

#36 OFFLINE   RasputinAXP

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 05:54 AM

I'm just shocked that Apple would miss the mark this badly. It's got worse hardware and screen than the Nexus 7 at a much higher price point, and if the rumor holds true that we're looking at a shift from 8/16GB on the Nexus 7 to 16/32 then at the $249 price point you're talking about a 32GB Nexus 7. That's insane.

And it's precisely why Apple was so slow to enter the market, I suppose: they can't compete at anything below boutique pricing.

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#37 OFFLINE   Steve

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:04 AM

I was interested in the iPad Mini but expected a price point under $300. I'll take a closer look at the Google Nexus.

Currently I read e-books from the library on an iPod Touch. Works very well on a crowded economy airline seat. I'd prefer a 7+ inch screen, though.

It is $70 more expensive than a 16GB Nexus, but with the 4:3 aspect ratio, 7.9 vs 7 provides a different experience a lot of folks will prefer, IMHO. If the price was equal, it would be a no-brainer for me as to which one I'd get.

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#38 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 07:34 AM

I said the price is stupid, which I believe it is. I will reserve comment wrt the intelligence level of the 1,2 or 5 million that will still purchase it.


Really? You really understand pricing and marketing better than a Fortune 100 company with the track record of Apple? If you can leave aside your remarks about stupid buyers, fanbois, etc., is there no number in sales that'd show that the pricing is all right? Are you squirming here just a bit? Come up with a number.
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#39 OFFLINE   lparsons21

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:08 AM

I'm just shocked that Apple would miss the mark this badly. It's got worse hardware and screen than the Nexus 7 at a much higher price point, and if the rumor holds true that we're looking at a shift from 8/16GB on the Nexus 7 to 16/32 then at the $249 price point you're talking about a 32GB Nexus 7. That's insane.

And it's precisely why Apple was so slow to enter the market, I suppose: they can't compete at anything below boutique pricing.


You give all the same geek arguments that were made when the 1st iPad hit the streets, and I suspect the market will respond now just like they did then. In the marketplace geeks aren't very relevant.

Note that none of the non-Apple tablet makers will give actual sales numbers, most likely because any number that is true would look pathetic in comparison to Apple's in tablets.

I think that in the long term, Apple and Amazon will be the biggest winners by far since they both have a thriving ecosystem to back up their hardware. And that is precisely what is missing with the rest of the tablets.

As to what pricing Apple should have come in at? Well Apple has been hitting the mark as to what the market is willing to pay for what Apple is providing. I expect the Mini will find plenty of buyers and even sell more of them than any other mfg.

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#40 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:24 AM

Not everyone has a great library system, a book may not be available, or too many requests and not enough copies. Sure, there's Interlibrary loan, but that doesn't solve everything. Plus there's the fact that depending on how much time you have, you might end up taking more than the two weeks to read a book. Can't renew if someone requested it.


Costs us $.10 a day to hold an overdue book. Rarely have to that, but it's still wayyyyy cheaper than buying the book.

I do realize everyone doesn't have the wonderful library network we do in NJ, but I'd think most states do have some sort of library network.

I've never tried to calculate the number of books I read in a year, but I'd be paying a hefty sum if I had to buy each one.

I dunno, it's never made any sense to me to purchase a book that can be had at no charge. No matter how you choose to read a book, be it a real paper book or on a computer, tablet, whatever, it still makes no sense to me to pay for a book that you can read free of charge.

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#41 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:27 AM

Well, when you go on vacation and only need to carry along an ebook reader for the 6 books you plan on reading as opposed to lugging around 6 books, that would be why...

- Merg


Not sure that's a valid point. I have never had a problem taking books with me, whether on a vacation or a business trip.

Rich

#42 OFFLINE   jdskycaster

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:38 AM

laxguy,
No. Why would I squirm? We had three 1st gen ipads right up until they became obsolete a month ago. They will sell millions of these but at what cost to their fan base in the long term? All speculation has been on apple finally hitting the $199 or even going as high as the $249 mark on this product and still maintaining margins through their volumes. The current price point looks more like a strategic cash grab from their loyal fan base rather than what you are characterizing as a highly savvy marketing move.

Apple is not blazing any trails with this device, in fact they are now following in this category of product form factor. So other than being slightly too big to be highly portable and too small to provide the large tablet experience what are you getting for what you seem to be calling marketing genious and at a stellar premium price?

A 2.2" smaller screen experience with smaller text so it will have a retina display right? Sorry, no. With any computing device processing power is key to the overall user experience. So if I pay more for an ipad mini I must be getting a faster processor right? Sorry, it does not have a class leading processor either. So in order to make up for these shortcomings apple must be finally offering something to make this one stand out from the crowd like support for expandable memory right? No. Since this is going to be used as a highly portable device I want a cellular enabled version. I can just swap the SIM card from my 2nd or 3rd gen ipad and use that right? Sorry, no you cannot, the SIM cards are not compatible.

Completely get that many have apps that they just want to run on a smaller more portable device but in this specific case this appears to be a marketing experiment to see just how far the consumer can be pushed beyond the boundaries of logic, reasoning and common sense when making a purchase.

My advice, buy the new 4th generation ipad instead. You will at least be giving the impression that you are a savvy tech consumer.

#43 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:45 AM

Or buy bottled water that's priced higher than gasoline and may not be as good as your own tap water!


I'm well aware that I can survive on tap water. But my liquid intake is only water (my choice, not a medical condition) and if you could taste our tap water, you'd understand why we don't drink it. The tap water meets all requirements for safe water, but it tastes awful.

Or buy a cup of coffee that's priced higher than the gallon of gas that it took to go get the cup of coffee that's mostly milk and sugar!


That's something I don't get, but I don't drink coffee and if some people want to pay high prices for a Starbuck's cup of coffee, I guess they can afford it. Just as I can afford to buy every book I read. Just because I can afford to do something doesn't mean I'm gonna do it if I can get the same thing free of charge. But, maybe NJ's library system has me spoiled.

The list is probably endless in today's economy -- recession indeed!!


Yeah, really makes you wonder doesn't it? I see people in the local convenience store buying cigarettes at prices I can't believe and lottery tickets that they probably can't afford. I'm also seeing a lot of new cars.

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#44 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:49 AM

What bench mark of sales of the mini would you accept as showing that the pricing is not, like, totally stupid? 1 Million? 2? 5?
What?


We all know the iLemmings will be lined up at the stores today. I'm not sure if how many they sell is an indicator of how good they are or if they are priced too high. You know they're gonna sell.

Rich

#45 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:54 AM

laxguy,
No. Why would I squirm? We had three 1st gen ipads right up until they became obsolete a month ago. They will sell millions of these but at what cost to their fan base in the long term? All speculation has been on apple finally hitting the $199 or even going as high as the $249 mark on this product and still maintaining margins through their volumes. The current price point looks more like a strategic cash grab from their loyal fan base rather than what you are characterizing as a highly savvy marketing move.

<< Snipped bits out >>

My advice, buy the new 4th generation ipad instead. You will at least be giving the impression that you are a savvy tech consumer.


I have the third generation iPad, and am satisfied with it, thanks. I don't care about impressing anyone with being tech savvy or not.

You are squirming/avoiding/evading my question/challenge because you're wrong. Not wrong about what you want for a price point, nor what you want for specs, but you're not willing to concede that there will be major sales at the pricing Apple has put on this particular device.
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#46 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:04 AM

Why would people buy DVDs when they could just watch the movie on HBO (when available)?


I dunno. I don't buy them. Instant gratification?

You can ask the same question of many things. Some people just plaing like to own something.


Yeah, there's that too.

One reason I have a Kindle Fire (having previously had a Kindle 2 and Kindle DX) is that I can get virtually any book I want, (almost) any time I want.


Well, there's a case of instant gratification.

Lately there's been the complication of the publishing companies trying to inflate prices, but that's another issue. I won't pay $15 for an e-book just as I won't pay $25 for a hardcover.


The hardcover book I'm reading now costs $27.99. I'm almost done with it and I started it yesterday. I'm gonna open a thread about it later today, it's a really good read. Cost: $0.00. How can you beat that?

So, the publishers are trying to jack up the prices on e-books, huh? Not surprised, but I'd like to see the justification to do that.

A friend of mine recommended a book to me last week. I looked it up and had it on my Kindle in less than 3 minutes. It's now synched to my phone as well and I can read whenever I have a few minutes. In addition, I don't have to lug several books around when travelling.

I always have my library with me - so when my trip to the mechanic for a car inspection suddenly turns into a couple of hours to replace brakes and some other parts, I have reading material. I even have newspapers and magazines delivered to my shirt pocket.


I always have a book with me (in the car) when I go places where I might have time to kill. The book costs me nothing, I need no device to read it. I'm not arguing against e-book readers, just the cost of books in general. I understand quite well how the e-books work and prefer real books. Just an opinion, didn't mean to start an argument.

Rich

#47 OFFLINE   Laxguy

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:10 AM

We all know the iLemmings will be lined up at the stores today. I'm not sure if how many they sell is an indicator of how good they are or if they are priced too high. You know they're gonna sell.


Of course. And Apple certainly has fanbois and goils who will do anything, pay anything to have the latest and greatest toy. Some of them know nothing about the device and will use 10% of its capacity. There are 128,605 such delusional folk, give or take 100,000.

But to pricing!? It's too high for me to buy one NOW, but I don't crave an 8" device. Yes, I'd love to have one, but for $50 only, today, would be my price point. Next year, my price point might be $ 400 for one.

How many they sell indicates a whole lot! Some will never concede that massive sales means anything; others will debate, or equivocate, or smear those who buy them, but the numbers don't lie.
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#48 OFFLINE   jdskycaster

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:50 AM

You are squirming/avoiding/evading my question/challenge because you're wrong. Not wrong about what you want for a price point, nor what you want for specs, but you're not willing to concede that there will be major sales at the pricing Apple has put on this particular device.


You must not have read the part where I said apple will still sell millions of these providing concrete evidence that the foundation of my argument is in fact right on.

#49 OFFLINE   jdskycaster

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:54 AM

But to pricing!? It's too high for me to buy one NOW, but I don't crave an 8" device.


An 8" device? Nice try.

#50 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:17 AM

Of course. And Apple certainly has fanbois and goils who will do anything, pay anything to have the latest and greatest toy. Some of them know nothing about the device and will use 10% of its capacity. There are 128,605 such delusional folk, give or take 100,000.

But to pricing!? It's too high for me to buy one NOW, but I don't crave an 8" device. Yes, I'd love to have one, but for $50 only, today, would be my price point. Next year, my price point might be $ 400 for one.

How many they sell indicates a whole lot! Some will never concede that massive sales means anything; others will debate, or equivocate, or smear those who buy them, but the numbers don't lie.


Just goes to show how many folks have money to spend at a time when we're in a financial crisis.

Rich




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