Jump to content


Welcome to DBSTalk


Sign In 

Create Account
Welcome to DBSTalk. Our community covers all aspects of video delivery solutions including: Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS), Cable Television, and Internet Protocol Television (IPTV). We also have forums to discuss popular television programs, home theater equipment, and internet streaming service providers. Members of our community include experts who can help you solve technical problems, industry professionals, company representatives, and novices who are here to learn.

Like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community. Sign-up is a free and simple process that requires minimal information. Be a part of our community by signing in or creating an account. The Digital Bit Stream starts here!
  • Reply to existing topics or start a discussion of your own
  • Subscribe to topics and forums and get email updates
  • Send private personal messages (PM) to other forum members
  • Customize your profile page and make new friends
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Photo

4th Gen iPad?


  • Please log in to reply
76 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 20,387 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:27 AM

Well, when you go on vacation and only need to carry along an ebook reader for the 6 books you plan on reading as opposed to lugging around 6 books, that would be why...

- Merg


Not sure that's a valid point. I have never had a problem taking books with me, whether on a vacation or a business trip.

Rich

...Ads Help To Support This SIte...

#42 OFFLINE   jdskycaster

jdskycaster

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 272 posts
Joined: Sep 01, 2008

Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:38 AM

laxguy,
No. Why would I squirm? We had three 1st gen ipads right up until they became obsolete a month ago. They will sell millions of these but at what cost to their fan base in the long term? All speculation has been on apple finally hitting the $199 or even going as high as the $249 mark on this product and still maintaining margins through their volumes. The current price point looks more like a strategic cash grab from their loyal fan base rather than what you are characterizing as a highly savvy marketing move.

Apple is not blazing any trails with this device, in fact they are now following in this category of product form factor. So other than being slightly too big to be highly portable and too small to provide the large tablet experience what are you getting for what you seem to be calling marketing genious and at a stellar premium price?

A 2.2" smaller screen experience with smaller text so it will have a retina display right? Sorry, no. With any computing device processing power is key to the overall user experience. So if I pay more for an ipad mini I must be getting a faster processor right? Sorry, it does not have a class leading processor either. So in order to make up for these shortcomings apple must be finally offering something to make this one stand out from the crowd like support for expandable memory right? No. Since this is going to be used as a highly portable device I want a cellular enabled version. I can just swap the SIM card from my 2nd or 3rd gen ipad and use that right? Sorry, no you cannot, the SIM cards are not compatible.

Completely get that many have apps that they just want to run on a smaller more portable device but in this specific case this appears to be a marketing experiment to see just how far the consumer can be pushed beyond the boundaries of logic, reasoning and common sense when making a purchase.

My advice, buy the new 4th generation ipad instead. You will at least be giving the impression that you are a savvy tech consumer.

#43 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 20,387 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:45 AM

Or buy bottled water that's priced higher than gasoline and may not be as good as your own tap water!


I'm well aware that I can survive on tap water. But my liquid intake is only water (my choice, not a medical condition) and if you could taste our tap water, you'd understand why we don't drink it. The tap water meets all requirements for safe water, but it tastes awful.

Or buy a cup of coffee that's priced higher than the gallon of gas that it took to go get the cup of coffee that's mostly milk and sugar!


That's something I don't get, but I don't drink coffee and if some people want to pay high prices for a Starbuck's cup of coffee, I guess they can afford it. Just as I can afford to buy every book I read. Just because I can afford to do something doesn't mean I'm gonna do it if I can get the same thing free of charge. But, maybe NJ's library system has me spoiled.

The list is probably endless in today's economy -- recession indeed!!


Yeah, really makes you wonder doesn't it? I see people in the local convenience store buying cigarettes at prices I can't believe and lottery tickets that they probably can't afford. I'm also seeing a lot of new cars.

Rich

#44 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 20,387 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:49 AM

What bench mark of sales of the mini would you accept as showing that the pricing is not, like, totally stupid? 1 Million? 2? 5?
What?


We all know the iLemmings will be lined up at the stores today. I'm not sure if how many they sell is an indicator of how good they are or if they are priced too high. You know they're gonna sell.

Rich

#45 OFFLINE   Laxguy

Laxguy

    Fortuna! Fameux des Halles

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 11,908 posts
  • LocationWinters, California
Joined: Dec 02, 2010

Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:54 AM

laxguy,
No. Why would I squirm? We had three 1st gen ipads right up until they became obsolete a month ago. They will sell millions of these but at what cost to their fan base in the long term? All speculation has been on apple finally hitting the $199 or even going as high as the $249 mark on this product and still maintaining margins through their volumes. The current price point looks more like a strategic cash grab from their loyal fan base rather than what you are characterizing as a highly savvy marketing move.

<< Snipped bits out >>

My advice, buy the new 4th generation ipad instead. You will at least be giving the impression that you are a savvy tech consumer.


I have the third generation iPad, and am satisfied with it, thanks. I don't care about impressing anyone with being tech savvy or not.

You are squirming/avoiding/evading my question/challenge because you're wrong. Not wrong about what you want for a price point, nor what you want for specs, but you're not willing to concede that there will be major sales at the pricing Apple has put on this particular device.
"Laxguy" means a guy who loves lacrosse.

#46 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 20,387 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:04 AM

Why would people buy DVDs when they could just watch the movie on HBO (when available)?


I dunno. I don't buy them. Instant gratification?

You can ask the same question of many things. Some people just plaing like to own something.


Yeah, there's that too.

One reason I have a Kindle Fire (having previously had a Kindle 2 and Kindle DX) is that I can get virtually any book I want, (almost) any time I want.


Well, there's a case of instant gratification.

Lately there's been the complication of the publishing companies trying to inflate prices, but that's another issue. I won't pay $15 for an e-book just as I won't pay $25 for a hardcover.


The hardcover book I'm reading now costs $27.99. I'm almost done with it and I started it yesterday. I'm gonna open a thread about it later today, it's a really good read. Cost: $0.00. How can you beat that?

So, the publishers are trying to jack up the prices on e-books, huh? Not surprised, but I'd like to see the justification to do that.

A friend of mine recommended a book to me last week. I looked it up and had it on my Kindle in less than 3 minutes. It's now synched to my phone as well and I can read whenever I have a few minutes. In addition, I don't have to lug several books around when travelling.

I always have my library with me - so when my trip to the mechanic for a car inspection suddenly turns into a couple of hours to replace brakes and some other parts, I have reading material. I even have newspapers and magazines delivered to my shirt pocket.


I always have a book with me (in the car) when I go places where I might have time to kill. The book costs me nothing, I need no device to read it. I'm not arguing against e-book readers, just the cost of books in general. I understand quite well how the e-books work and prefer real books. Just an opinion, didn't mean to start an argument.

Rich

#47 OFFLINE   Laxguy

Laxguy

    Fortuna! Fameux des Halles

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 11,908 posts
  • LocationWinters, California
Joined: Dec 02, 2010

Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:10 AM

We all know the iLemmings will be lined up at the stores today. I'm not sure if how many they sell is an indicator of how good they are or if they are priced too high. You know they're gonna sell.


Of course. And Apple certainly has fanbois and goils who will do anything, pay anything to have the latest and greatest toy. Some of them know nothing about the device and will use 10% of its capacity. There are 128,605 such delusional folk, give or take 100,000.

But to pricing!? It's too high for me to buy one NOW, but I don't crave an 8" device. Yes, I'd love to have one, but for $50 only, today, would be my price point. Next year, my price point might be $ 400 for one.

How many they sell indicates a whole lot! Some will never concede that massive sales means anything; others will debate, or equivocate, or smear those who buy them, but the numbers don't lie.
"Laxguy" means a guy who loves lacrosse.

#48 OFFLINE   jdskycaster

jdskycaster

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 272 posts
Joined: Sep 01, 2008

Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:50 AM

You are squirming/avoiding/evading my question/challenge because you're wrong. Not wrong about what you want for a price point, nor what you want for specs, but you're not willing to concede that there will be major sales at the pricing Apple has put on this particular device.


You must not have read the part where I said apple will still sell millions of these providing concrete evidence that the foundation of my argument is in fact right on.

#49 OFFLINE   jdskycaster

jdskycaster

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 272 posts
Joined: Sep 01, 2008

Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:54 AM

But to pricing!? It's too high for me to buy one NOW, but I don't crave an 8" device.


An 8" device? Nice try.

#50 OFFLINE   Rich

Rich

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 20,387 posts
  • LocationPiscataway, NJ
Joined: Feb 22, 2007

Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:17 AM

Of course. And Apple certainly has fanbois and goils who will do anything, pay anything to have the latest and greatest toy. Some of them know nothing about the device and will use 10% of its capacity. There are 128,605 such delusional folk, give or take 100,000.

But to pricing!? It's too high for me to buy one NOW, but I don't crave an 8" device. Yes, I'd love to have one, but for $50 only, today, would be my price point. Next year, my price point might be $ 400 for one.

How many they sell indicates a whole lot! Some will never concede that massive sales means anything; others will debate, or equivocate, or smear those who buy them, but the numbers don't lie.


Just goes to show how many folks have money to spend at a time when we're in a financial crisis.

Rich

#51 OFFLINE   Laxguy

Laxguy

    Fortuna! Fameux des Halles

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 11,908 posts
  • LocationWinters, California
Joined: Dec 02, 2010

Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:52 AM

You must not have read the part where I said apple will still sell millions of these providing concrete evidence that the foundation of my argument is in fact right on.


Apple selling millions of these rejects your statement that the pricing of them is "stupid". You have no idea of their costs to manufacture or distribute; hence no idea of the markup. Selling them at a price you think is "right" might be at an unsatisfactory ROI or even at a loss.
"Laxguy" means a guy who loves lacrosse.

#52 OFFLINE   Stewart Vernon

Stewart Vernon

    Excellent Adventurer

  • Moderators
  • 19,499 posts
  • LocationKittrell, NC
Joined: Jan 07, 2005

Posted 25 October 2012 - 03:09 PM

To some extent the apples and oranges are being thrown around here :)

This isn't about whether or not Apple will sell enough iPad minis to be a success.

It is about whether or not Apple accomplishes what is presumably their goal of releasing such a device.

The iPad mini has two primary competitors:

1. Amazon Kindle
2. Apple iPad

IF iPad mini is chosen over an iPad due to price being lower... then Apple loses... because they have just cannibalized their own existing customer base and given them a cheaper option to buy an Apple product.

IF iPad mini is chosen over a Kindle, however, then Apple is gaining new customers.

BUT... the iPad mini to Kindle comparison isn't as favorable to existing Kindle owners. Kindle owners must like reading books and must like the cheaper price... and the iPad mini isn't cheap enough to compete in that market. The iPad mini isn't that much cheaper than the full-size iPad really... or to look at it another way, you can almost buy two Kindles for the price of one iPad mini.

I have an iPad... I want a new iPad... but I have no interest in the iPad mini. IF I wanted just a book-reader with some other options, the Kindle is far cheaper... since I want the other stuff that the iPad offers, I'd rather have the only slightly more expensive full-size iPad.

-- I like to go fast (not really)


#53 OFFLINE   Steve

Steve

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 22,525 posts
Joined: Aug 22, 2006

Posted 25 October 2012 - 03:19 PM

IF iPad mini is chosen over an iPad due to price being lower... then Apple loses... because they have just cannibalized their own existing customer base and given them a cheaper option to buy an Apple product.

Respectfully disagree. I read somewhere an estimate that it costs them $200 to build and ship an iPad Mini they sell for $130 more. Maybe not iPad maxi margins, but pretty good margins none the less, IMHO.

And they still bring a new iTunes customer into the ecosystem that otherwise might have become a Kindle or Play Store customer. Just my .02.
/steve

#54 OFFLINE   dennisj00

dennisj00

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 8,304 posts
  • LocationLake Norman, NC
Joined: Sep 27, 2007

Posted 25 October 2012 - 04:47 PM

Just as Amazon is probably selling the Kindle's on a very narrow margin for the book sales, Apple can reduce their margin on the hardware with book, magazine, iTunes, apps and cellular revenue.

It becomes the razor / razor blade model very quickly. Or eyes on the tablet.

Spending to stimulate the economy as fast as the credit cards will allow!

My Setup / Weather at Lake Norman!/ Boathouse BEES
DLB, MRV, nomad, HDGUI are HERE! . . . We're DONE!


#55 OFFLINE   jdskycaster

jdskycaster

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 272 posts
Joined: Sep 01, 2008

Posted 25 October 2012 - 05:21 PM

Apple selling millions of these rejects your statement that the pricing of them is "stupid". You have no idea of their costs to manufacture or distribute; hence no idea of the markup. Selling them at a price you think is "right" might be at an unsatisfactory ROI or even at a loss.


It's not just me and I am not making this stuff up. The technical spec's speak for themselves. The mini is not a superior product to the competition, therefore it may not be stupid but it sure seems idiotic to price it higher than the competitions products.

Stewart,
It is not just the kindle the mini is competing with. Here is a link to an article that outlines all of the existing competition in this space.

http://www.networkwo...-cost-less.html

#56 OFFLINE   pfp

pfp

    Whatever

  • Registered
  • 1,552 posts
Joined: Apr 28, 2009

Posted 25 October 2012 - 05:27 PM

It's not just me and I am not making this stuff up. The technical spec's speak for themselves. The mini is not a superior product to the competition, therefore it may not be stupid but it sure seems idiotic to price it higher than the competitions products.

Stewart,
It is not just the kindle the mini is competing with. Here is a link to an article that outlines all of the existing competition in this space.

http://www.networkwo...-cost-less.html


Take two identical devices then slap in apple logo and $50 higher price on one and it will sell millions more than the other.
I do, I offer a complete and utter retraction. The imputation was totally without basis in fact, and was in no way fair comment, and was motivated purely by malice, and I deeply regret any distress that my comments may have caused you, or your family, and I hereby undertake not to repeat any such slander at any time in the future.

#57 OFFLINE   Laxguy

Laxguy

    Fortuna! Fameux des Halles

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 11,908 posts
  • LocationWinters, California
Joined: Dec 02, 2010

Posted 25 October 2012 - 05:43 PM

The iPad mini has two primary competitors:

1. Amazon Kindle
2. Apple iPad

IF iPad mini is chosen over an iPad due to price being lower... then Apple loses... because they have just cannibalized their own existing customer base and given them a cheaper option to buy an Apple product.

IF iPad mini is chosen over a Kindle, however, then Apple is gaining new customers.

<< Snipped bits out >>


A new customer choosing a mini over the full size iPad isn't a 'lose' situation for Apple, unless the margins are quite different.

I have an iPad... I want a new iPad... but I have no interest in the iPad mini. IF I wanted just a book-reader with some other options, the Kindle is far cheaper... since I want the other stuff that the iPad offers, I'd rather have the only slightly more expensive full-size iPad


Each person will have his own set of druthers and bench marks. Some will just compare processor speeds, pixel count, # of apps., whatever. Some will buy just because it is made by Apple; some won't due to that.

Oddly enough, perhaps, if I didn't have an iPad3 I might buy the mini. At least give it serious thought. Then, I love my MacBookAir, and the iPad is too big for me to hold reading on my back in bed.
"Laxguy" means a guy who loves lacrosse.

#58 OFFLINE   dpeters11

dpeters11

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 12,645 posts
  • LocationCincinnati
Joined: May 30, 2007

Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:02 PM

Respectfully disagree. I read somewhere an estimate that it costs them $200 to build and ship an iPad Mini they sell for $130 more. Maybe not iPad maxi margins, but pretty good margins none the less, IMHO.

And they still bring a new iTunes customer into the ecosystem that otherwise might have become a Kindle or Play Store customer. Just my .02.


Those figures generally are just in the actual costs of the parts, not the other costs involved.

But it's no secret that Apple has a higher markup than others. But there are benefits to the Apple experience as well.

#59 OFFLINE   jdskycaster

jdskycaster

    Legend

  • Registered
  • 272 posts
Joined: Sep 01, 2008

Posted 25 October 2012 - 07:21 PM

But there are benefits to the Apple experience as well.


After 3 years experiencing apple products and services I have yet to understand what those benefits truly are. Unless by benefits you mean paying a premium for a device that becomes obsolete at or near the speed of light. Or, perhaps you meant that it is of great benefit that the itunes experience is complete crap. Or maybe it is that this premium device becomes premium by having to jail-break it myself, setting it free from the apple choke hold of mediocrity and death.

No, I just thought of it. By paying the apple premium you get absolutely stellar customer service and support that is unmatched in the CE industry. Just like the time my wife took our gen 2 apple tv into the store because it would no longer boot up and I just did not have time to mess with it. She called me three hours later, said the apple geek took it in the back, messed with it for three hours (yes, three hours) handed it back and said - uh, it is 24 days out of your 1 year warranty. There is nothing we can do, it is broken. Now, I completely understand how this could happen as we used it at least 6 times in the year we had it, I am sure it just was not designed for that type of heavy usage model.:rolleyes: Here are your options, number one, you can buy a brand new unit for full price. Option two, oh, sorry there is no option two.

But FYI you are going to be thrilled that we just replaced the apple tv 2 with an apple tv 3!! You want to see it? It is really cool and it now comes in white!!! And since we see you really did not have a great experience with your apple tv gen 2 we will sell you one today for - wait for it.......... FULL PRICE!!! Just incredible customer service, white glove, top notch. But then I do understand times are tight at apple, all the billions of dollars in profit are stranded somewhere outside of the US, kept there so that the company can avoid paying zero taxes on any profits made here in the USA.

I bet you are wondering what I told my wife to do. Yep, bring it on home as I am certainly not buying another apple tv even if it does come in white. She brought it home and I re-flashed it in itunes running on my Windows notebook (took me all of 20 min). Maybe the apple geniuses just could not figure this out on their own or maybe the macbook they used just did not have this capability.:rolleyes: I should really give them the benefit of the doubt.

So I have to agree there are a multitude of benefits that up until now I have just not taken the time to appreciate. I do thank apple for not supporting the ipad gen 1 and that pushed me to get rid of all three of them when I would normally have said it was completely premature to do so. I also thank the the lord that both of my kids have their eyes and hearts set on another brand of phone when we upgrade this spring. Cannot come fast enough for me, we will be fresh out of apples by spring. Woot!!:D

#60 OFFLINE   dpeters11

dpeters11

    Hall Of Fame

  • DBSTalk Club
  • 12,645 posts
  • LocationCincinnati
Joined: May 30, 2007

Posted 25 October 2012 - 07:31 PM

I was having trouble with my iPod, it was out of warranty but they got it working. No charge, and I was thinking I'd probably end up getting the new one when it came out. Not going to now.

Getting software updates on iPhones etc certainly more reliable compared to Android.

I hate iTunes as well, but don't use it much.

Ok, they didn't release iOS 6 for the original iPad. But I can walk into a cellular store, get an Android phone with 2 year contract (though free), and it has Gingerbread or Froyo. That's more pathetic to me.

Apple released iOS 6 for the 3GS. There has to be a reason it wasn't released for the first gen iPad.

Edited by dpeters11, 25 October 2012 - 07:37 PM.





spam firewall