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Guest Message by DevFuse

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DirecTV with a Generator


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368 replies to this topic

#241 OFFLINE   sbl

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 06:12 PM

I fitted the GenTent on my Briggs+Stratton today. Very nice design.

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#242 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 10:13 PM

... Which TED are you buying? ...

Leaning towards TED 5000-G. Just also found a few great looking iPhone Apps for TED.

And convinced of portable inverter generator more then ever now. Also added one more item to my pro's column ... thinking it's much better to be able to store a portable unit in the garage and keep it out of the weather while not in use, vs whole house standby that will get weathered over the years.

Purchase list:
  • Portable Invertor Generator
  • Tri-Fuel Kit
  • GenTent or build some cover off house
  • 4 prong 240v electric cable for generator to inlet port
  • 4-prong 30A inlet port (backyard wall)
  • 10-guage wire from inlet port to electric panel
  • 30A backfeed circuit breaker (takes up two slots)
  • InterLock Kit for electric panel
  • Natural gas line outside - piping & gas port (backyard wall)
  • Natural gas hose for generator to gas connector
  • Possible gas meter upgrade
Portable Inverter with Tri-Fuel connector - Pro's:
  • Small
  • Quiet (50-60db)
  • Clean power (UPS' will be fine)
  • Easy maintenance, no need for generator home maintenance contract
  • When used with InterLock Kit, should be able to power all of the essentials in the house with no extension cords
  • Natural gas, no need for gasoline if gasoline is constrained, but also still could be powered by gasoline or propane in case of a natural disaster that disables the natural gas line
  • Portable, can be stored in the garage and protected from weather when not in use
  • Portable, can take with me if ever I move, and no need to permanently connect to home and avoids any construction and permits that may be needed for large Generac/Kohler unit. Also no need to permanently dedicate backyard space.
  • Much less natural gas needed, less then 100CFH, as compared to big whole home unit
  • Less overall $, both upfront and ongoing
This is all one person's opinion ... for this one home owner situation ... certainly understand that others may want a true whole home permanently mounted automatic standby unit. :)

Edited by Sixto, 08 December 2012 - 10:41 PM.

DirecTV: Genie HR44, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/75)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#243 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:13 AM

Haven't decided on the TED yet. Also saw another unit, need to decide. Will post what I get.


I really got a thing for meters. I do wish I hadn't seen that. Now I want one. I think I only saw 2 Teds that were for single phase.

The local Honda dealer said that he would install the Tri Fuel kit, but I need to go down and confirm. All conversation up to now has been over the phone.


Yeah, you need that in writing. Suppose the guy that told you that died. I have over $10,000 in plastic fencing around my property and the guy that installed it all guarantees his work for life. Unfortunately, and very sadly, I really like this guy, he has cancer, so the lifetime warranty dies with him and his company when he passes. Seemed pretty healthy the last time I saw him.

Honda warranty is 3 years.


We used to use them in our plant and most contractors that we employed used them. Very dependable.

Rich

#244 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:20 AM

One opinion is that a manual full load transfer switch is better, but I may still go with the Interlock Kit, it's just so simple, and seems to be just as safe. With the transfer switch I'd need to re-route the main house 240v service and not sure that I want to do that for little benefit.


Bit of a PITA, but with PVC rather than conduit, it's much easier. Thing about that interlock kit is you have to be there. My main concern during storms is my three sump pumps. I have two fireplaces and access to a gully full of blown down trees, so heating the house isn't a problem. A/C is another story, both my wife and son have terrible allergies and we need the A/C for health reasons.

Also some thought that I could run the generator within the existing natural gas meter, by just not using everything at the same time, but I may do the upgrade any way. It may depend on the cost, which I don't yet have a quote for.


I kinda doubt the code inspector would let you do that. I know our power company wouldn't.

Rich

#245 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:31 AM

Leaning towards TED 5000-G. Just also found a few great looking iPhone Apps for TED.


I think I'd go with the 5000-C. For $40 more it looks neater.

If you do go with a portable genny, what kind of disconnect do you get for the NG?

Rich

#246 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:05 PM

I think I'd go with the 5000-C. For $40 more it looks neater.

If you do go with a portable genny, what kind of disconnect do you get for the NG?

The more I investigate the TED, it does have it's issues. It uses X10 to communicate and I see lots of comments of people with issues, may need inline filter to eliminate interference, not sold on it yet.

Now leaning towards getting the inverter working first with gasoline, test everything out with inlet/wiring/interlock, and then after success then convert to tri-fuel and do that myself which will allow me to understand the conversion, test everything before any modification, and have the option to switch back if I need to since I'll have both methods tested.

Now have everything figured out mostly, expect this will take a couple of months, hopefully no storms in the meantime!
DirecTV: Genie HR44, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/75)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#247 OFFLINE   jkbird59

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:08 AM

here is a link for winco generators.they make tri- fuel gennys .

http://www.wincogen....uel_generators/

#248 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 11:34 AM

here is a link for winco generators.they make tri- fuel gennys .

http://www.wincogen....uel_generators/

Personally ruled them out due to noise (72 dba) and non-inverter, but others may be interested.
DirecTV: Genie HR44, H25, CCK, GenioGo, SWiM-16 & SWiM-8, DECA to Gigabit Switch with FiOS (75/75)
FiOS: Roamio Pro's (2), Roamio Plus, Mini's (4) with Ultimate HD (My Roamio Thoughts)

#249 OFFLINE   Vin

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 01:52 PM

I could do what you're considering myself, but to what end? Still need gasoline. That's the real beauty of the NG gennys, we've never lost our gas supply.

Perhaps Sandy is the last we'll see of this type of storm in our lifetimes, but it also might be the precursor to even worse storms in the near future. NYC is actually thinking of building tidal barriers such as London has and the Netherlands have. They're not planning on spending that kind of money on a whim.

I really think a reasonably priced NG genny is the right way to go. Now I have to figure out just how large a genny I need. Not hard to do, just add up all your absolutely necessary wattages and add a bit more for "luxuries" and you'll come up with a reasonable figure.
Rich


Yes, this is the $64,000 question.


That's what we said after Irene knocked out power for 3 days. Then we had the October 2011 snowstorm that knocked out power for 5 days, and we got a 4kW portable generator. Now Sandy knocked out power for 8 days and, after we went through the 15 gallons of gasoline we had stockpiled, we couldn't get gas to keep it going. This is after losing power for no more than 12 hours in the prior 18 years we have lived in this house.

We will make the deal for a 17kW whole house Generac next week...just giving the local dealer the opportunity to match the quote we have from a dealer an hour away.


I can't argue with this logic or Rich's but based on my personal experience I'm just 'not there yet' so I will take Tom's approach for now....only time will tell if I need to take it to the next level. :grin:


I saw myself going down this same road last year after the freak October snowstorm left me without power for a week. I was gonna go whole-hog, but then took a step back and realized that this was a freak thing and that I could get away with much less.

So I went with a 7000 watt portable Gas driven generator and hooked a 220v power inlet box to the back of the house. The total cost was about $800 for everything. I lost power for 10 days during sandy, and while it was not as convenient as a home-standby, my life was 90% normal with lights, hot showers, TV and of course cold freezer and fridge.

So I suggest anybody looking to get a generator stop and think how much you may need it, and how much is inconvenient for you. You may find you can get by with alot less.


Vin

#250 OFFLINE   alnielsen

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 11:58 PM

Yes, this is the $64,000 question.

Any one in the northern 2/3rds of the country, as long as they have overhead power lines, has a chance on seeing a moderate power disruption. Mainly due to ice storms. Then theirs always the more local disruptions due to a transformer blowing out or a tree limb knocking out a line. These are usually fixed within 24 hrs, but it will be nice to have the luxury to mostly go on without feeling the affects.

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#251 OFFLINE   BlackDynamite

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:06 AM

Leaning towards TED 5000-G. Just also found a few great looking iPhone Apps for TED.

And convinced of portable inverter generator more then ever now. Also added one more item to my pro's column ... thinking it's much better to be able to store a portable unit in the garage and keep it out of the weather while not in use, vs whole house standby that will get weathered over the years.

Purchase list:

[*]Portable Invertor Generator
[*]Tri-Fuel Kit
[*]GenTent or build some cover off house
[*]4 prong 240v electric cable for generator to inlet port
[*]4-prong 30A inlet port (backyard wall)
[*]10-guage wire from inlet port to electric panel
[*]30A backfeed circuit breaker (takes up two slots)
[*]InterLock Kit for electric panel
[*]Natural gas line outside - piping & gas port (backyard wall)
[*]Natural gas hose for generator to gas connector
[*]Possible gas meter upgrade

Portable Inverter with Tri-Fuel connector - Pro's:

[*]Small
[*]Quiet (50-60db)
[*]Clean power (UPS' will be fine)
[*]Easy maintenance, no need for generator home maintenance contract
[*]When used with InterLock Kit, should be able to power all of the essentials in the house with no extension cords
[*]Natural gas, no need for gasoline if gasoline is constrained, but also still could be powered by gasoline or propane in case of a natural disaster that disables the natural gas line
[*]Portable, can be stored in the garage and protected from weather when not in use
[*]Portable, can take with me if ever I move, and no need to permanently connect to home and avoids any construction and permits that may be needed for large Generac/Kohler unit. Also no need to permanently dedicate backyard space.
[*]Much less natural gas needed, less then 100CFH, as compared to big whole home unit
[*]Less overall $, both upfront and ongoing

This is all one person's opinion ... for this one home owner situation ... certainly understand that others may want a true whole home permanently mounted automatic standby unit. :)


This sounds pretty much perfect to me. Thanks for doing all the leg work!

How much does this cost? Do you have links to where it can be purchased?

#252 ONLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:23 AM

Leaning towards TED 5000-G. Just also found a few great looking iPhone Apps for TED.

And convinced of portable inverter generator more then ever now. Also added one more item to my pro's column ... thinking it's much better to be able to store a portable unit in the garage and keep it out of the weather while not in use, vs whole house standby that will get weathered over the years.

Purchase list:

[*]Portable Invertor Generator
[*]Tri-Fuel Kit
[*]GenTent or build some cover off house
[*]4 prong 240v electric cable for generator to inlet port
[*]4-prong 30A inlet port (backyard wall)
[*]10-guage wire from inlet port to electric panel
[*]30A backfeed circuit breaker (takes up two slots)
[*]InterLock Kit for electric panel
[*]Natural gas line outside - piping & gas port (backyard wall)
[*]Natural gas hose for generator to gas connector
[*]Possible gas meter upgrade

Portable Inverter with Tri-Fuel connector - Pro's:

[*]Small
[*]Quiet (50-60db)
[*]Clean power (UPS' will be fine)
[*]Easy maintenance, no need for generator home maintenance contract
[*]When used with InterLock Kit, should be able to power all of the essentials in the house with no extension cords
[*]Natural gas, no need for gasoline if gasoline is constrained, but also still could be powered by gasoline or propane in case of a natural disaster that disables the natural gas line
[*]Portable, can be stored in the garage and protected from weather when not in use
[*]Portable, can take with me if ever I move, and no need to permanently connect to home and avoids any construction and permits that may be needed for large Generac/Kohler unit. Also no need to permanently dedicate backyard space.
[*]Much less natural gas needed, less then 100CFH, as compared to big whole home unit
[*]Less overall $, both upfront and ongoing

This is all one person's opinion ... for this one home owner situation ... certainly understand that others may want a true whole home permanently mounted automatic standby unit. :)


I haven't looked over your list in detail, but I have to say, I think you might want to think about the interlock kit a second time. With it, you won't have a way to reliably know your power came back on without shutting stuff off. Its forcing you to choose all or nothing. I think the unit that someone else linked to earlier may be a better solution. One of those that can drive most circuits but not all would allow you to pick and choose some and leave others untouched. Plus its also completely fool proof as well so you never have to worry about a line being fed by both sources at the same time, just as the interlock does.

Here is the link he posted, and it looks like they have several different products that are in the same category.

http://www.reliancec...ail.aspx?51410C

Just thought you might want to look at it...

I'll have to research this whole tri fuel thing. Guess I'm not sure who that works with a regular generator, and I wonder what kind of affect it has on a units noise levels.

Edited by inkahauts, 11 December 2012 - 01:29 AM.


#253 OFFLINE   Vin

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 09:16 AM

Any one in the northern 2/3rds of the country, as long as they have overhead power lines, has a chance on seeing a moderate power disruption. Mainly due to ice storms. Then theirs always the more local disruptions due to a transformer blowing out or a tree limb knocking out a line. These are usually fixed within 24 hrs, but it will be nice to have the luxury to mostly go on without feeling the affects.


Having lived in NJ my whole life I can attest to everything you've stated but having a chance is not the same as what typically occurs at any given location, which is what my course of action is being based on.
Vin

#254 OFFLINE   Tom_S

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 11:20 AM

Having lived in NJ my whole life I can attest to everything you've stated but having a chance is not the same as what typically occurs at any given location, which is what my course of action is being based on.


Yeah, exactly. It is natural to freak-out when such a major disaster occurs, I know a few people that went all-out and spent thousands and that's fine. In probably 99% of the outages I think a smaller 7000 watt portable will more than suffice.

I didn't account for gas being so scarce, I always figured If I had a few days worth that was more than enough, and it would have been fine except for the hundreds of people from NJ coming to my small town and draining our local station(s). But this was a storm that NEVER happened before. I consider that happening again very remote.
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#255 OFFLINE   Vin

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:25 PM

I haven't looked over your list in detail, but I have to say, I think you might want to think about the interlock kit a second time. With it, you won't have a way to reliably know your power came back on without shutting stuff off. Its forcing you to choose all or nothing. I think the unit that someone else linked to earlier may be a better solution. One of those that can drive most circuits but not all would allow you to pick and choose some and leave others untouched. Plus its also completely fool proof as well so you never have to worry about a line being fed by both sources at the same time, just as the interlock does.

Here is the link he posted, and it looks like they have several different products that are in the same category.

http://www.reliancec...ail.aspx?51410C



The http://www.interlockkit.com/ gives you the option to choose which circuits are on at any given time, unlike a transfer switch where those decisions need to be made upon installation. Also, a manual transfer switch like the one you linked to needs to be manually turned off before restoring utility power....same as an interlock kit.

If someoned needed to know the moment the street power is back up, this device might be an option when using a manual transfer switch or interlock kit > http://www.homedepot...ert-thp108.html.
Vin

#256 ONLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:32 PM

The http://www.interlockkit.com/ gives you the option to choose which circuits are on at any given time, unlike a transfer switch where those decisions need to be made upon installation. Also, a manual transfer switch like the one you linked to needs to be manually turned off before restoring utility power....same as an interlock kit.

If someoned needed to know the moment the street power is back up, this device might be an option when using a manual transfer switch or interlock kit > http://www.homedepot...ert-thp108.html.


Correct me if I am wrong, but that interlock kit makes it so your main breaker for your entire main panel is either on, or off and the entire panel is then connected to the generator.

That means if anything in your house is connected via the generator, everything in your house is connected to the generator. And saying its allowing you to choose which circuits are on the generator is a bit misleading. It allows you to choose which ones are on and off, simply by flipping circuit breakers, it does not allow you to choose which circuits are power by the generator, and which are left on the main service.

The switch I linked to, that's not the case. Those switches allow you to bypass only certain circuits, while leavening the rest of the house untouched. This means if you are strategic, you can have half the house or so connected always to the main service, and half or so connected to the generator.

That switch I linked to simply allows you to pick and choose upon installation what source an individual circuit gets its power from, where the interlock makes you choose for your entire system. Personally, I see more advantages of choosing certain key circuits in advance.

Really the difference is personal preference to a great extent, but I think with a little pre planning, choosing circus in advance based on location and logical need may make more sense to me. Of course, some of that may also depend on how your house was wired, how many sub panels you have, and so on.

Edited by inkahauts, 11 December 2012 - 01:38 PM.


#257 OFFLINE   Vin

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:56 PM

Correct me if I am wrong, but that interlock kit makes it so your main breaker for your entire main panel is either on, or off and the entire panel is then connected to the generator.

That means if anything in your house is connected via the generator, everything in your house is connected to the generator.


The interlock kit gives you access to your entire panel at all times, however, you can still choose which circuits are on and which ones are off at any given time. Of course, you do have to be sure not to exceed the capability (wattage) of your generator but the worst that would happen is the generator would kick off, at which point you'd know you had too many circuits on.

The switch I linked to, that's not the case. Those switches allow you to bypass only certain circuits, while leavening the rest of the house untouched. This means if you are strategic, you can have half the house or so connected always to the main service, and half or so connected to the generator.


Not exactly. The main panel is always in control of all the circuits unless the transfer switch is manually engaged, then the pre chosen circuits are the only ones that can be on and powered by the generator. But like the interlock kit, when the power goes out it involves user interface and also will not allow the main panel to be fed by the utility power and the generator at the same time.
Vin

#258 ONLINE   inkahauts

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:42 PM

The interlock kit gives you access to your entire panel at all times, however, you can still choose which circuits are on and which ones are off at any given time. Of course, you do have to be sure not to exceed the capability (wattage) of your generator but the worst that would happen is the generator would kick off, at which point you'd know you had too many circuits on.


Again, personal preference to me. The disadvantage to the interlock is that it does make you choose one source or the other for everything, period. Of course you don't have to have all the circuits on, but then in some houses that have multiple sub panels in differne threads, this is more of a hassle.


Not exactly. The main panel is always in control of all the circuits unless the transfer switch is manually engaged, then the pre chosen circuits are the only ones that can be on and powered by the generator. But like the interlock kit, when the power goes out it involves user interface and also will not allow the main panel to be fed by the utility power and the generator at the same time.


I'll have to re read but the one I linked based on a quick view of how its wired, allows you to leave other circuits wired to the main service and turned on, because the transfer panel is wired in after the main panels circuit breakers, and there fore chooses a source for the circuit after the main panel circuit breaker for that circuit, and not a source for the actual panel.

#259 OFFLINE   Joe C

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 06:14 AM

The http://www.interlockkit.com/ gives you the option to choose which circuits are on at any given time, unlike a transfer switch where those decisions need to be made upon installation. Also, a manual transfer switch like the one you linked to needs to be manually turned off before restoring utility power....same as an interlock kit.

If someoned needed to know the moment the street power is back up, this device might be an option when using a manual transfer switch or interlock kit > http://www.homedepot...ert-thp108.html.


Interlock kit is the way to go. Being able to use a light in any room is nice especially in the winter when it gets dark early. I have the Power Back unit listed above, it does work but the alarm is low. A portable baby monitor would help to hear the alarm especially if the main panel is far away from the main area of the house.

#260 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 12:15 PM

Having lived in NJ my whole life I can attest to everything you've stated but having a chance is not the same as what typically occurs at any given location, which is what my course of action is being based on.


I bought my home in Piscataway in 1986 and for 10 years we had no problems. Then we had a "500" year storm. OK, we got thru that, I figured I might not live another 500 years, so we were safe. Next came a "1,000" year storm. Then, we got a "1,500" year storm and I stopped believing that stuff completely.

Wonder what Sandy was? Was it just an anomaly or are we doomed to get these massive storms periodically now? I'm not really ready to take that chance. Not with the Raritan River just a few hundred feet from my home. I can run my sump pumps off my 5500 portable genny, that's not a problem. My mailman still doesn't have power and he's got a well and a septic system. Same town. That really bothers me.

Rich




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