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DirecTV with a Generator


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368 replies to this topic

#126 OFFLINE   Herdfan

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:09 PM

Trick is getting the pad level.


Actually the Generac that I got recommends putting it on a 4-6" bed of gravel instead of a concrete pad.

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#127 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:18 AM

If necessary, use washers as shims, or better yet, for more precise leveling, use double-nuts to adjust to exactly level, then lock down gen.


I have not seen any mention of pads aside from posts on this thread. Wonder how much they cost? The gennys must come with levelers built in, getting the pad level and keeping it level might be a problem.

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#128 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:27 AM

I have seen the jack-leg work the "Licensed Master Electrician" did on my house. I'll go with me.


As I've said many times, finding a good electrician is difficult. The guy I know and I used to work on jobs together and, if I do install one, I'll work with him.

Normally running gas pipe is not something that is DIY. But I grew up on gas wells and pipelines as it was the family business. I have been working on wellheads since I was 14 or so. So I know what I am doing and am very comfortable doing it. Wouldn't risk my family's safety if I wasn't.


I was never allowed do work as you were, union stopped me from doing anything but electrical work. I wouldn't be comfy with the NG thing, but I'd pay happily to have that done by someone that knows what he's doing.

The permitting process and inspections should cover installation for insurance purposes.

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#129 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:31 AM

Actually the Generac that I got recommends putting it on a 4-6" bed of gravel instead of a concrete pad.


Usually, that's not a bad idea. I was thinking of a pad sitting on a few inches of three quarter stone and a couple inches of sand, but if the maker recommends the gravel, that's even easier.

Rich

#130 OFFLINE   loudo

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:35 AM

I have not seen any mention of pads aside from posts on this thread. Wonder how much they cost? The gennys must come with levelers built in, getting the pad level and keeping it level might be a problem.

Rich

One of the sales person I had told me that some companies have pads that go with the generators. They are soft and sound absorbing. The pad sets on a bed of gravel.

#131 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:36 AM

I have seen the jack-leg work the "Licensed Master Electrician" did on my house. I'll go with me.

Normally running gas pipe is not something that is DIY. But I grew up on gas wells and pipelines as it was the family business. I have been working on wellheads since I was 14 or so. So I know what I am doing and am very comfortable doing it. Wouldn't risk my family's safety if I wasn't.


I've never heard of a "Licensed Master Electrician", unless that's something the guy threw into an ad for impact. I know NJ takes no notice of whether you're a Master, Senior or ordinary electrician as far as the licensing test goes. Master and Senior being synonymous.

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#132 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:40 AM

One of the sales person I had told me that some companies have pads that go with the generators. They are soft and sound absorbing. The pad sets on a bed of gravel.


Yup, in the chemical plant I worked in we put everything on concrete pads, so I'm not really sure what the requirements are state by state.

I'd guess with the kind of pad you're talking about, it would just settle into the pad. Thinking about it, I gotta wonder how much impact on the gennys leveling has to do with their installation. Does it have to be exact or ballpark?

Rich

#133 OFFLINE   Vin

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:02 PM

I ended up getting a 14KW and a 200 amp switch, completely installed for just over $6000.


That sounds reasonable. I just received a quote of $9,000 to install this unit > http://www.homedepot...184&R=202493184 (gas line not included). :rolleyes:
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#134 OFFLINE   Rich

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:12 PM

That sounds reasonable. I just received a quote of $9,000 to install this unit > http://www.homedepot...184&R=202493184 (gas line not included). :rolleyes:


$9,000 just to install it? Or is the price of the genny included in that? And they don't install the gas line?

Generators aren't that complicated. The transfer switch is more complicated than the genny itself. Even that's not that hard to install. The big transfer switches I've worked on were controlled by a relay that was in one position when the normal power was on and when it went off, the relay dropped out allowing the transfer switch to move to the genny position. These were on big diesel gennys.

Rich

#135 OFFLINE   Rickt1962

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:43 PM

The last Generac I installed came with a Hard Plastic pad

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#136 OFFLINE   Vin

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:54 PM

$9,000 just to install it? Or is the price of the genny included in that? And they don't install the gas line?

Generators aren't that complicated. The transfer switch is more complicated than the genny itself. Even that's not that hard to install. The big transfer switches I've worked on were controlled by a relay that was in one position when the normal power was on and when it went off, the relay dropped out allowing the transfer switch to move to the genny position. These were on big diesel gennys.

Rich


No, that includes the generator but conisidering it's retail price, the labor charge seems high to me. And he (the electrical contractor) said it was up to me whether I wanted to use his plumber at a cost of around $1,500 or I could get my own plumber.
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#137 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:11 PM

That sounds reasonable. I just received a quote of $9,000 to install this unit > http://www.homedepot...184&R=202493184 (gas line not included). :rolleyes:

Identical unit I've been focused on, though I'd really like one of the $3000 hypothetical Bloom Energy home fuel cell units that they talked about a couple of years ago :)

Also thought about solar but fuel cell may really be the future, but may need 14RESA in the meantime.

#138 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:14 PM

We have been getting quotes in the $9500 range for a 20kW Generac, all plumbing and electrical included. $9,000 for a 14kW plus another $1500 for the gas line seems pretty high.

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#139 OFFLINE   Rickt1962

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:52 PM

WOW I hate to see my fellow DBS'ers get taken. You need to step back and think how much KWH you need for your home. What is important ? What do you have to cover ? Refridg , TV , Heat, Etc. Then get the Gen you need to cover it. I wired the Generac to the panel in 2 hours. Just so long the sub panel can be with in 1 foot of your orginal panel from wer u locate the unit out side. The gas line being run with Trac pipe to the gen or iron pipe will need a plumber. Unless u hav the knowledge to run it with copper or Iron. Trac requires special tools and Lic. again it is how far they have to run it is the price. A normal install shouldnt be more then $ 1000.00 to $ 1500.00

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#140 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:57 PM

Unless you live in a mansion, it is rare that you would ever need more than about 10KW and that's if you run everything in your house all at the same time. Most could be very comfortable with a 5KW to 7KW generator. Plus, the bigger the genset, the more fuel it burns, and the more often it needs refueling. If on gas, you're okay as long as the gas line isn't damaged.

#141 OFFLINE   loudo

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:00 PM

That sounds reasonable. I just received a quote of $9,000 to install this unit > http://www.homedepot...184&R=202493184 (gas line not included). :rolleyes:

This was the unit I got from a local electrical/generator contractor. My price did not include gas work either. My gas guy told me it would run about $600.00 for everything for the gas.
http://www.homedepot...51#.ULVFQddX80U

#142 OFFLINE   loudo

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:01 PM

The last Generac I installed came with a Hard Plastic pad

That was what I was mentioning earlier. The way the contractor explained it, they come with the unit.

#143 OFFLINE   loudo

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:53 PM

Plus, the bigger the genset, the more fuel it burns, and the more often it needs refueling. If on gas, you're okay as long as the gas line isn't damaged.

That is not totally true. This came off a chart that was given to me by one of the people I talked to.
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#144 OFFLINE   Rickt1962

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:45 PM

That is not totally true. This came off a chart that was given to me by one of the people I talked to.
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Yes that is correct ! its like a gas peddle of a Car the more u push it the more fuel u will use. As i stated earlier in the thread My home is 6000+ sqft I installed my own 20 years ago ! Its only 4500 watt LP. I have a 1000 gal under ground tank. Everything in my home is gas ! So I put in a 220 volt dryer jack in my shed I back feed my house with it. I turn off the main breakers, Yes breakers I have 2 two hundred breaker panels with a 220-50amp breaker crossing over both panels. So when the power goes off I flip off the two 200 amp mains then start the 4500 wat gen and go in and flip on my 50's. My 4500 handles my fridg, TV, well pump. Everything else i have runs off of gas. A 1000 gal tank will last 30 days. The longest i ever had to use it was a week.

The funny thing was I installed it 20 years ago ! I think i went almost 10 years before i used it when we lost power more then a day. I do remember it was Xmas in the middle of a Blizzard ! And 3 years ago when a Hurrican knocked our power out for a week. My only cost is the tractor battery i have to buy every 3+ years ! It does have a pull rope starter. As any thing u dont use much unless you break the union and let the gas bleed out you get alot of air build up to the unit and you will be pulling that rope along time ! LOL

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#145 OFFLINE   Vin

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:00 AM

We have been getting quotes in the $9500 range for a 20kW Generac, all plumbing and electrical included. $9,000 for a 14kW plus another $1500 for the gas line seems pretty high.


Yeah, I was prepared to go for as much as $7,000 for the complete job but the quote I received has me rethinking this project. Now that a few weeks have passed since the storm and my zeal has waned (time heals all wounds) :) I'm leaning towards just getting a portable generator, especially considering how infrequently we've lost power in the 25 years we've been in our house.

I have an electrician coming to look at the job tomorrow night to put in a transfer switch/sub panel and inlet box. I'm figuring I should be able to do the whole project for around $3,000 including the generator, give or take, depending on the unit I decide to go with.
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#146 OFFLINE   Diana C

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:56 PM

Unless you live in a mansion, it is rare that you would ever need more than about 10KW and that's if you run everything in your house all at the same time. Most could be very comfortable with a 5KW to 7KW generator. Plus, the bigger the genset, the more fuel it burns, and the more often it needs refueling. If on gas, you're okay as long as the gas line isn't damaged.


I don't live in a mansion, but our house is 2500 sq ft, has a 3.5 ton central air conditioner, electric double oven, two refrigerators and a deep freezer, microwave, plus a bunch of TVs and all the normal stuff a house has. We have natural gas available (gas heat and hot water) and everyone we have gotten bids from have recommended a 17kw unit. The difference between a 14kw and a 20kw unit, once you factor in installation, is $1000 or less. If we are going to spend $8000 to $9000, I don't want to have think about turning something on.

We had a 4.5kw portable through Sandy...having to turn something off before we turned something else on got pretty tired awfully quickly. Then we couldn't get gasoline (none of the stations had power). Never again.

We have lived in this house for 19 years...in the first 15 years we lost power 3 or 4 times. In the last 3 years we have lost power over a half dozen times, and for more than a week 3 times in the past 2 years. In our view, having your own standby power is no longer a luxury. Electricity has gotten like indoor plumbing...it is a requirement for modern living.

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#147 OFFLINE   Sixto

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:35 PM

I don't live in a mansion, but our house is 2500 sq ft, has a 3.5 ton central air conditioner, electric double oven, two refrigerators and a deep freezer, microwave, plus a bunch of TVs and all the normal stuff a house has. We have natural gas available (gas heat and hot water) and everyone we have gotten bids from have recommended a 17kw unit. The difference between a 14kw and a 20kw unit, once you factor in installation, is $1000 or less. If we are going to spend $8000 to $9000, I don't want to have think about turning something on.

We had a 4.5kw portable through Sandy...having to turn something off before we turned something else on got pretty tired awfully quickly. Then we couldn't get gasoline (none of the stations had power). Never again.

We have lived in this house for 19 years...in the first 15 years we lost power 3 or 4 times. In the last 3 years we have lost power over a half dozen times, and for more than a week 3 times in the past 2 years. In our view, having your own standby power is no longer a luxury. Electricity has gotten like indoor plumbing...it is a requirement for modern living.

Love this post.

It's almost my exact situation. Same experience, and same plans.

Kohler 14RESA will most likely be the solution once I can get anyone to accurately visit and quote.

#148 OFFLINE   carl6

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:19 PM

I keep forgetting about air conditioning, something almost nobody has in my neck of the woods. Also something I tend not to consider essential, but know I would feel differently if I lived where it gets hot and humid at the same time.

#149 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:21 PM

A friend of mine that lives in Florida somewhere had his house "hurricane proofed", with regards to electricity.... I only know this guy through some internet chat boxes and other sites, but apparently he had installed in his house a number of outlets with RED face plates, one near the fridge in the kitchen, one near the TV setup in the living room, one for a light in the living room, one for the water heater I believe, and probably one or two others. These outlets don't do ANYTHING unless a generator he had installed in the corner of his yard is fired up. He would then have to change his equipment from one outlet to the other by hand to make them work on the generator.

He decided to do this, because when he originally had his generator installed he had to run cords through a window into the home to power some things. It did cost him thousands of dollars to install the separate circuit in his home though, and he has YET to use it (besides testing it once or twice) in an actual disaster scenario....
[Disclaimer] The definition of "soon" is based solely on DirecTV's interpretation of the word, and all similarities with dictionary definitions of the word "soon" are purely coincidental and should not be interpreted as a time frame that will come to pass within a reasonable amount of time.

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#150 OFFLINE   maartena

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:22 PM

I keep forgetting about air conditioning, something almost nobody has in my neck of the woods. Also something I tend not to consider essential, but know I would feel differently if I lived where it gets hot and humid at the same time.


AC also costs a lot of power, to keep the house cooled you would need quite a decent generator.
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