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What are your plans after price freeze expires?


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76 replies to this topic

#61 OFFLINE   Orion9

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:42 PM

Here's another one I just remembered. At the optometrist, they had me look into a machine which took digital pictures of my retinas. Later the doctor told me we could "develop" those pictures and she could look at them without dilating my eyes and we would have a nice record for future comparison - but this would cost extra. Or, she could dilate my eyes and peer in the old-fashioned way. I went with the modern more expensive way, and she said, "OK we'll develop the pictures" and with a click of her mouse, there they were. The "magic" of digital "development". :D Of course the work of having me sit in front of the machine had already been done by the technician. It cost me extra to save the doctor from basically redoing it the old way. (Not to mention they didn't have to send me home with disposable sunglasses.)

Just another funny pricing model for you. Value to you is often priced higher even if it costs them less.

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#62 OFFLINE   mike1977

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:53 PM

I don't pay Microsoft a monthly fee to use my hard drive and Windows on my computer and maintain it with the updates.

So what if one has to pay more for a certain model with more features? That should be it, and done with. Isn't all the software doing is reading the interactive tv guide? Why isn't there a separate non-dvr receiver interactive tv guide fee to maintain THAT?

#63 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:04 PM

BTW: One of the features of the DVR is the 9 day guide, instead of 48 hours. Being able to look ahead is just another benefit that comes from having a DVR.

And for the $10 DVR fee that applies to my Hopper I get to use PTAT ... and record things that I didn't know were on. Every once in a while I hear of a show that was on last night or last week that is still on my Hopper available to be viewed. Value for $$.

#64 OFFLINE   Orion9

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:06 PM

So what if one has to pay more for a certain model with more features? That should be it, and done with.


That's certainly one way to do it. ie: take the monthly cost, multiply it by some estimate of the lifetime of the unit and add it to the price.

Of course when you do that, many will complain about the high up-front cost. Many people want the cheap/free cell phone and barely bother to ask what the monthly fee is going to be. For better or worse, many companies have figured this out.

#65 OFFLINE   brant

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:33 PM

You can ... you can even build your own DVR ... just don't expect it to work as well as a DVR built in to your satellite receiver. Or be cheaper than the DVR fee you don't want to pay.


while not as bad as most cableco dvr's, dish networks dvr is nothing to brag about. I think the lack of 3rd party availability is what keeps dish and DirecTV from putting anything really worth paying for on the market.

There is a 3rd party Dvr already built and waiting for dish or direct to pick it up, but i doubt it will ever happen.

Both dish and DirecTV built USB tuners for windows media center also, but for reasons unexplained, decided not to make them available.

#66 OFFLINE   brant

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:36 PM

BTW: One of the features of the DVR is the 9 day guide, instead of 48 hours. Being able to look ahead is just another benefit that comes from having a DVR.

.


I have a 14 day guide that costs $0/mo with media center. SageTV also provided their guide service for free.

As far as I know, all htpc front-ends provide their guides for free.

#67 OFFLINE   inazsully

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:10 PM

I did not say that the dvr fee was a secret. I said that the agreement between the providers to all ad a dvr fee was the secret. Hence the term "collusion". If all the providers do it then the customer is caught between a rock and a hard place. If Directv decided to drop its dvr fee how long do you think it would take Dish to follow suit? This type of universally added fee concept, "collusion", is so unfair that a few states have put a ceiling on DOC fees concerning car dealers.

#68 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:19 AM

Ok ... so if everybody is doing it then it must be a crime. Everyone charges an additional receiver fee. Must be collusion. Everyone charges a monthly fee for their service. That is definitely collusion.

More like market forces. DISH did not have a DVR fee ... then their DVRs got popular enough that they found it to be a good way of making money so they charged a fee PER receiver ... except on the top package where AEP included the DVR fee. Then they didn't include the fee in AEP (back to per receiver fees). Then DISH moved to a per account fee (but somehow charged more for a solo DVR than a solo receiver and a duo DVR than a duo receiver). And with the 922 they added an additional couple of dollars for the larger hard drive.

Now with The Hopper the per account whole home DVR fee is $10 ... which happens to be what DirecTV charges. DISH still charges $6 on non-Hopper accounts. DISH still charges more for non Hopper DVRs than they do similar receivers.

Occam's razor says each company is just charging what they believe the market will bear. But if you believe DISH and DirecTV got together behind the scenes to conspire to set up this price structure I suppose I can't stop you.

#69 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:40 AM

There is a 3rd party Dvr already built and waiting for dish or direct to pick it up, but i doubt it will ever happen.

Both dish and DirecTV built USB tuners for windows media center also, but for reasons unexplained, decided not to make them available.



My guess is that is has something to do with encryption of content.
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#70 OFFLINE   brant

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 07:14 AM

My guess is that is has something to do with encryption of content.


I was thinking more along the lines of lost revenue. They wouldn't have a way of charging you extra for connecting extenders to the system. WMC handles cablecard encryption just fine. The biggest complaint of cablecard users is that content can only be watched on the PC that recorded it and its extenders; you can't transfer recordings between PC's.

#71 OFFLINE   SayWhat?

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 07:36 AM

^ Well, that's pretty much the same as the DVRs. I can see that for Premium channels, and possibly for traditional cable/sat channels like USA, TBS, et al., but I can't see it for OTA channels.

Maybe a site license/key where you could play content on any machine you own, perhaps with a limit of 10 or 15 devices.

But that's another thread I guess.

Nobody has really answered the question I asked a while back though if I discontinue my subscription but keep the 512 connected:

Question though. I've read that some people get some programming on certain receivers even without a paid subscription. What, if anything is available? Is there a list of channels? What about the rotating free preview channels?


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#72 OFFLINE   tsmacro

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:52 AM

I don't pay Microsoft a monthly fee to use my hard drive and Windows on my computer and maintain it with the updates.

So what if one has to pay more for a certain model with more features? That should be it, and done with. Isn't all the software doing is reading the interactive tv guide? Why isn't there a separate non-dvr receiver interactive tv guide fee to maintain THAT?


There are some differences here, first of all Microsoft isn't providing you content just software and maybe hardware depending what you buy from them. They've chosen a pricing model that you either pay upfront (when you buy a computer part of the price, a pretty big part actually, is what the computer manufacturer pays to software companies like Microsoft to have their popular software on their computers) or you pay to upgrade when Microsoft comes out with a new version of one of their programs.

Dish on the other hand is primarily in the business of providing entertainment content to your home. When they started they actually had a similar business model, you pay for your equipment and installation up front, but of course the difference here is that to view the content you did have to keep paying a monthly fee for it. Well the industry figured out that they could spread out the cost of their equipment & installation by adding the cost to the monthly bill and getting customers to agree to a minimum subscription time (aka contract). As it turns out people preferred this and they got a lot more people to sign up for their services over the old way of paying upfront for equipment and labor. Also they noticed that subscribers who had DVR's cost them more because of the cost of developing, manufacturing and maintaining them. So sure they could just charge their customers who want DVR's an upfront charge for them but market forces have spoken and has shown that people are more willing to pay a small monthly fee rather than a few hundred dollars upfront.

Edited by tsmacro, 28 November 2012 - 08:30 AM.



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#73 OFFLINE   Paul Secic

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:03 PM

Which I won't be doing.

WMC, OTA, DVD, maybe some streaming, etc. Might even look at trying FTA. My ISP has a TV page included in their home page that offers quite a bit of choice in free programming, both classic and current.

If I can get anything in stray programming from Dish, fine.

I already have the PC, etc. so no cost involved there.

No matter what, I won't be paying $700/yr or more plus getting nickle and dimed by a DVR fee.


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#74 OFFLINE   brant

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:19 PM

Nobody has really answered the question I asked a while back though if I discontinue my subscription but keep the 512 connected:


I'm not sure about it working with a dish receiver, but you can pickup whatever is in the clear, including free previews, with a turbo-8psk tuner card.

#75 OFFLINE   joyandjerry

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:20 PM

Wow there's still people complaining about DVR fees? Really?! Thought that ship sailed years ago. Like noted above no one has to pay a DVR fee if they don't want to, so if the fee bothers you then get rid of the DVR. Personally the $6/mo I pay for my DVR is about the best monthly investment I have for my entertainment dollar!


+2!!! The DVR allows us to watch so many things we enjoy. It is an excellent value!
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#76 OFFLINE   James Long

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:20 PM

Question though. I've read that some people get some programming on certain receivers even without a paid subscription. What, if anything is available? Is there a list of channels? What about the rotating free preview channels?

Currently:
Free or Preview Channels
100 HOME DISH Home (Interactive) (ITV Free Free) 110° TP 8 and 72.7° TP 21
101 D101 DISH 101 (SD Free Free) 119° TP 17 and (B3 Free Free) 72.7° TP 21
9531 D101 (101 HD PartTime) DISH 101 (HD Preview) 110° TP 13 and 72.7° TP 28
103 PREVW Free Preview Announcements (SD MPEG4 Preview) 61.5° TP 6 and (SD Preview) 110° TP 2
104 IDEA (71 Local) (Infomercials) (SD Preview) 119° TP 9 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 31
9527 DIY (111 HD) Do It Yourself (HD Preview) 110° TP 22 and 72.7° TP 20
123 MALL (83 Local) (Shopping) (SD Preview) 61.5° TP 14 and 110° TP 10
125 AXS AXS TV (SD Preview) 119° TP 16 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 21
128 WE Women's Entertainment (SD Instant Order Preview) 119° TP 12 and (SD MPEG4 Instant Order Preview) 72.7° TP 15
130 HDNMV HD Net Movies (SD MPEG4 Preview) 61.5° TP 2 and (SD Preview) 110° TP 21
5023 HDNMV (130 HD) HD Net Movies (HD Preview) 119° TP 7 and 72.7° TP 24
134 SHNBC ShopNBC (SD Preview) 119° TP 9 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 7
137 QVC Quality Value Choice (SD Instant Order Preview) 119° TP 9 and (SD MPEG4 Instant Order Preview) 72.7° TP 15
164 FUSE Fuse (SD Preview) 119° TP 15 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 22
9490 SCI (193 HD) Science Channel (HD Preview) 129° TP 19 and 72.7° TP 20
9437 TRV (196 HD) The Travel Channel (HD Preview) 129° TP 28 and 72.7° TP 11
220 MALL (Shopping) (SD Instant Order Preview) 61.5° TP 14 and 110° TP 10
222 HSN (84 Local) Home Shopping Network (SD Instant Order Preview) 119° TP 9 and (SD MPEG4 Instant Order Preview) 72.7° TP 15
223 BEST (85 Local) (Infomercials) (SD Instant Order Preview) 110° TP 10 and (SD MPEG4 Instant Order Preview) 72.7° TP 31
226 HSN2 Home Shopping Network 2 (SD Instant Order Preview) 110° TP 10 and (SD MPEG4 Instant Order Preview) 72.7° TP 5
227 JTV (86 Local) (Shopping Channel) (SD Instant Order Preview) 110° TP 2 and (SD MPEG4 Instant Order Preview) 72.7° TP 5
228 SHNBC ShopNBC (SD Instant Order Preview) 119° TP 9 and (SD MPEG4 Instant Order Preview) 72.7° TP 7
229 GEMS (Shopping Channel) (SD Preview) 110° TP 10 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 7
230 ICTV (Infomercials) (SD Preview) 119° TP 9 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 5
240 PRST Pursuit TV (AAD Infomercials) (SD Preview) 119° TP 15 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 22
256 PRAYR Shepherd’s Chapel (SD Preview) 119° TP 9 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 21
257 SBN Sonlife Broadcasting Network (SD Preview) 119° TP 9 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 22
274 LQ CH The Liquidation Channel (SD Preview) 110° TP 2 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 5
275 YOUTV (72 Local) (Shopping) (SD Preview) 61.5° TP 14 and 110° TP 10
298 IFC Independent Film Channel (SD Instant Order Preview) 119° TP 6 and (SD MPEG4 Instant Order Preview) 72.7° TP 15
358 SUND Sundance (SD Preview) 119° TP 15 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 22
362 AXS AXS TV (SD Instant Order Preview) 110° TP 2 and (SD MPEG4 Instant Order Preview) 72.7° TP 9
9422 AXS (362 HD) AXS TV (HD Preview) 119° TP 7 and 72.7° TP 3
471 ORDER Pre-Order PPV (SD Free Free) 119° TP 9 and (SD MPEG4 Free Free) 72.7° TP 29
472 ORDER Pre-Order PPV (HD Free Free) 110° TP 10 and 72.7° TP 29
473 ORDER Pre-Order PPV (SD Free Free) 110° TP 8 and (SD MPEG4 Free Free) 72.7° TP 29
474 ORDER Pre-Order PPV (HD Free Free) 110° TP 8 and 72.7° TP 29
480 ALOCK Adult Lock (SD Free Free) 119° TP 17 and (SD MPEG4 Free Free) 72.7° TP 21
500 ONPPV ON PPV (Promo Channel) (SD Free Free) 110° TP 16 and (SD MPEG4 Free Free) 72.7° TP 25
561 NBA NBA League Pass (SD Preview) 119° TP 18 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 7
9561 NBA (561 HD PartTime) NBA League Pass (HD Preview) 129° TP 26 and 72.7° TP 10
703 ZCINE Zee Cinema (SD Preview) 118° TP 27
704 SETMX SET Max (Hindi) (SD Preview) 118° TP 27
705 B4U B4U Movies (Hindi) (SD Preview) 118° TP 22
709 TIMES Times Now (Hindi) (SD Preview) 118° TP 8
710 HT Headlines Today (Hindi) (SD Preview) 118° TP 20
715 ZOOM Zoom (Hindi) (SD Preview) 118° TP 8
716 B4UMU B4U Music (Hindi) (SD Preview) 118° TP 23
717 ZING Indus Music (Urdu) (SD Preview) 118° TP 12
718 MTVH MTV India (Hindi) (SD Preview) 118° TP 8
723 NDTV NDTV 24/7 News (India) (SD Preview) 118° TP 18
724 NDTVG NDTV Goodtimes (India) (SD Preview) 118° TP 18
733 TV9 TV9 Gujarat (SD Preview) 118° TP 2
817 CD 12 Ink'd (Audio Preview) 119° TP 20 and 72.7° TP 25
829 D101 DISH 101 (SD Free Free) 119° TP 17 and (SD MPEG4 Free Free) 72.7° TP 21
875 STORE (Advertising) (SD Preview) 110° TP 10 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 31
883 IDEA (Infomercials) (SD Preview) 119° TP 9 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 31
886 NHL NHL Center Ice (SD Preview) 110° TP 24 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 29
9542 NHL (886 HD PartTime) NHL Center Ice (HD Preview) 129° TP 26 and 72.7° TP 10
929 AUD07 (75 Local) Gumbo (Audio Preview) 119° TP 20 and 61.5° TP 2
946 AUD19 (76 Local) Roadhouse (Audio Preview) 119° TP 18 and 72.7° TP 25
947 AUD20 (73 Local) Holiday (Audio Preview) 119° TP 12 and 72.7° TP 22
949 MUZK2 (74 Local) Muzak 2 (Muzak) (Audio Preview) 119° TP 12 and 72.7° TP 22
950 CD 1 (77 Local) Screen Door (Audio Preview) 119° TP 8 and 72.7° TP 25
951 CD 2 (78 Local) Rawhide (Audio Preview) 119° TP 8 and 72.7° TP 25
961 CD 12 (79 Local) Ink'd (Audio Preview) 119° TP 20 and 72.7° TP 25
963 CD 14 (80 Local) Concrete Beats (Audio Preview) 119° TP 8 and 72.7° TP 25
5707 NIT-H (HD Preview) 118° TP 13 No EPG
5708 NIT-V (SD Preview) 118° TP 13 No EPG
5709 NIT-M (SD MPEG4 Preview) 118° TP 13 No EPG
5710 TEST (HD Preview) 110° TP 13 No EPG
6004 SXM04 (88 Local) Sirius/XM 40s on 4 (Audio Abilene, TX market Preview) 119° TP 21 and 72.7° TP 15
6017 SXM17 (89 Local) Sirius/XM Love (Audio Abilene, TX market Preview) 119° TP 11 and 72.7° TP 5
9532 ICTV (81 Local) (Infomercials) (SD Free Free) 119° TP 9 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 5
9582 D61.5 61.5 Test Channel (SD Free Free) 61.5° TP 14
9583 D118 118 Test Channel (SD Free Free) 118° TP 7
9584 D121 121 Test Channel (SD Free Free) 121° TP 21
9598 D500 Dish 500 Test Channel (SD Free Free) 110° TP 10
9599 D129 129 Test Channel (SD Free Free) 129° TP 21
9643 ROCKS (87 Local) (Advertising) (SD Preview) 119° TP 13 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 9
9644 STORE (94 Local) (Advertising) (SD Preview) 110° TP 10 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 31
9645 DEAL (95 Local) (Advertising) (SD Preview) 110° TP 10 and (SD MPEG4 Preview) 72.7° TP 23
9916 CCTV4 CCTV-4 (Chinese) (SD Preview) 118° TP 19
9938 TVB8 TVB8 (Chinese) (SD Preview) 118° TP 15
9985 TVBS TVBS Jadeworld (Cantonese) (SD Preview) 118° TP 15
9986 TVBE TVBe Jadeworld (Cantonese) (SD Preview) 118° TP 17
9987 TVB2 TVB2 Jadeworld (Cantonese) (SD Preview) 118° TP 17
9988 TVB1 TVB1 Jadeworld (Cantonese) (SD Preview) 118° TP 17
9998 TVBV TVBV (Vietnamese) (SD Preview) 118° TP 1

Subject to change at any time.

#77 OFFLINE   Paul Secic

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:48 PM

I'd make this a poll but lack the expertise.

Exit, stage left?

Endure the unendurable?

Switch "providers"?

If you have to ask for the price of the walletectomy you couldn't afford it


I just downgraded to AT 200 today.

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