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swm 3 0 levels on set top box


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#21 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 12:57 PM

The only reason for swapping non SWM and SWM LNBs is to avoid using the 21 volt power inserter with power passing splitter.

 

Jim

How do you check the Ka SATs?


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#22 OFFLINE   Jim1023

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 01:41 PM

How do you check the Ka SATs?

I guess it depends on the meter.  Some Ka capable meters can probably only read the Ka Sats with an LNB swap.  I have only used Ku capable meters or the AIM.  As you probably know, the original DTV SWM dish install procedure only used the Ku Sats for peaking and then dithering on the 101 Sat, so no Ka capable meter was required.  Ka sats were then checked on the IRD.

 

When I install a SWM dish (I don't work for DTV or receive any compensation from them) I use an AIM meter to peak the 101 Ku Sat and then do a fine align to a conus transponder on the 103 Ka Sat.  As long as the pole is plumb with a bubble level, dish is not bent, and the LNB arm is not bent, this has worked for me.

 

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#23 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 03:01 PM

I guess it depends on the meter.  Some Ka capable meters can probably only read the Ka Sats with an LNB swap.  I have only used Ku capable meters or the AIM.  As you probably know, the original DTV SWM dish install procedure only used the Ku Sats for peaking and then dithering on the 101 Sat, so no Ka capable meter was required.  Ka sats were then checked on the IRD.

 

When I install a SWM dish (I don't work for DTV or receive any compensation from them) I use an AIM meter to peak the 101 Ku Sat and then do a fine align to a conus transponder on the 103 Ka Sat.  As long as the pole is plumb with a bubble level, dish is not bent, and the LNB arm is not bent, this has worked for me.

 

Jim

I notice you're in Southern Cal.

From what I've seen, for the west coast 99 is the one to dither the fine tuning, and as I'm currently on the east coast, the 103 is the one to fine tune here. The SAT that's the farthest away seems to be the best to fine tune off of.

 

You can't get around a bent dish/reflector, but any deviation of the mast/pole can be compensated for with the adjustments on the dish. A plumb mast simply makes it easier. 

 

Now that the AIM has come out, it's really the best/only one to use.


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#24 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 08:48 PM

How do you check the Ka SATs?


You dont, even with the DirecTV AIM meter, you only use the 101 to peak and dither. The AIM meter has the "benefit" of checking for IV at the dish, with another meter you just use the 101 and if done properly all satellite will be in place,


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#25 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 09:24 PM

You dont, even with the DirecTV AIM meter, you only use the 101 to peak and dither. The AIM meter has the "benefit" of checking for IV at the dish, with another meter you just use the 101 and if done properly all satellite will be in place,


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From what I've seen when it isn't done, it needs to be checked, but if you're passing IV it is "good enough".

I tweak my dishes to be "as good as they can be". YMMV


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#26 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 09:25 PM

From what I've seen when it isn't done, it needs to be checked, but if you're passing IV it is "good enough".
I tweak my dishes to be "as good as they can be". YMMV


That the purpose of IV. it will let you know for sure!!!!!!


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#27 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 03:25 AM

That the purpose of IV. it will let you know for sure!!!!!!


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No, it is there to meet a [high] minimum standard, but isn't the "peak" you can get out of alignment.

I tend to think the IV was added because too many installs weren't up to DirecTV's standard.


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#28 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 05:41 AM

 

I tend to think the IV was added because too many installs weren't up to DirecTV's standard.

Exactly.  the KaKu dish came way before the AIM.  at that time, most installers were using a company provided Acutrack or birddog meter which were unable to read the Ka band. DirecTV set the "perfectly" aligned dish standard when they lunched IV.  so if it passess IV, "is good enough"


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#29 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 06:27 AM

Exactly.  the KaKu dish came way before the AIM.  at that time, most installers were using a company provided Acutrack or birddog meter which were unable to read the Ka band. DirecTV set the "perfectly" aligned dish standard when they lunched IV.  so if it passess IV, "is good enough"

The IV test gets the system up to DirecTV's standard, and as a customer I go a bit farther on my own to keep rainfade to a minimum.


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#30 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 08:07 AM

The IV test gets the system up to DirecTV's standard, and as a customer I go a bit farther on my own to keep rainfade to a minimum.


But the point you are not getting (seems) is that if you dither properly, the dish should be aligned properly as is in the fact that every time I follow procedure the dish never "fails"

I installed my dish using DirecTV's SPIG and my rain fade is very minimum, if any.


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#31 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 01:57 PM

But the point you are not getting (seems) is that if you dither properly, the dish should be aligned properly as is in the fact that every time I follow procedure the dish never "fails"

I installed my dish using DirecTV's SPIG and my rain fade is very minimum, if any.


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Actually the point you're not getting is "if you don't check, you don't know".

I've been a tech, and worked with techs for many years and some do just enough to get by [the IV test] and others do as good a job as they can.

 

If you "never fail" then you're within the IV test range, but if you haven't checked the CNR on the weakest signal, you don't know if it's aligned as well as it can be, and therefore have the most rainfade resistance.


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#32 OFFLINE   Harold4187

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 06:03 PM

A SWM LNB can't be in "non SWM mode", but it can default to a non AGC mode.

The last time I saw a tech use a Birdog to install my SL3, he used a legacy LNB for alignment and then swapped in the SL3 SWiM.

After he left I retweaked it for the Ka birds as it needed it.

ok when i get home i have a old 3 lnb dish i will get it and sawp out if the dish app  dont work i will try it first

but did not some one say if i use a power supply and do not connect to the 22 110 it will work

i have the 1 in and 8 out splitter that came with the single swm LNB.i am guessing the meter will go on one of the out ports and the in port will go where to the power swm or the out on the splitter



#33 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 06:15 PM



ok when i get home i have a old 3 lnb dish i will get it and sawp out if the dish app  dont work i will try it first

but did not some one say if i use a power supply and do not connect to the 22 110 it will work

i have the 1 in and 8 out splitter that came with the single swm LNB.i am guessing the meter will go on one of the out ports and the in port will go where to the power swm or the out on the splitter

If you go with the splitter, the PI needs to be on the #1 output [red connector] and the meter on any of the others.

I haven't tried using a meter that isn't SWiM compatible, so I don't know how well it would work and will defer to those that have.

The AIM has a mode for aligning where it "locks" the AGC. This may be what happens without the control signal from a receiver.

I don't know how you can select [or know] which SAT you're picking up without the AIM or receiver controlling.,


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#34 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 08:10 PM

Actually the point you're not getting is "if you don't check, you don't know".
I've been a tech, and worked with techs for many years and some do just enough to get by [the IV test] and others do as good a job as they can.

If you "never fail" then you're within the IV test range, but if you haven't checked the CNR on the weakest signal, you don't know if it's aligned as well as it can be, and therefore have the most rainfade resistance.


The problem with your "theory" is that DirecTV does not makes "public" what the transponders should "look" like across the board, so there is no set to "compared" with. an example is that in my market transponder #3 from 99 and 3 from 103 cb (IIRC) are very hard to get it above 90 with a CNR almost reaching 12. if DirecTV provided an "example" per market of what transponders should look like, then we could adjust accordingly, until then IV is the only "comparison" so if it passes is all good


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#35 OFFLINE   veryoldschool

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 09:29 PM

The problem with your "theory" is that DirecTV does not makes "public" what the transponders should "look" like across the board, so there is no set to "compared" with. an example is that in my market transponder #3 from 99 and 3 from 103 cb (IIRC) are very hard to get it above 90 with a CNR almost reaching 12. if DirecTV provided an "example" per market of what transponders should look like, then we could adjust accordingly, until then IV is the only "comparison" so if it passes is all good


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I do get your point, but it doesn't change my earlier post.

 

The AIM does go off of the zip code entered and when my testing showed a failure, I looked at all the TP/CNRs to see which was the failure.

 

You don't say where you are, but on the west coast it's 99c [doesn't matter which TP] SAT that I use and my current east coast location would be the 103ca.

 

"The goal" is to align the dish/SAT and not "a TP". Dither to get the highest CNR and you're good.


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#36 OFFLINE   peds48

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 08:59 PM

I do get your point, but it doesn't change my earlier post.

The AIM does go off of the zip code entered and when my testing showed a failure, I looked at all the TP/CNRs to see which was the failure.

You don't say where you are, but on the west coast it's 99c [doesn't matter which TP] SAT that I use and my current east coast location would be the 103ca.

"The goal" is to align the dish/SAT and not "a TP". Dither to get the highest CNR and you're good.


I am in NYC. the AIM uses signal power to align. The AIM also uses signal power to dither on the 101 sat. the AIM checks for signal power, CNR, signal quality and lock status when testing for IV. IIRC, the AIM uses signal power on the 101 TP 25 through out the whole process, at least in my market.


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Here’s to the crazy ones.
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The the troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things different.
They’re not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.


Think Differently 




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